[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Don't twist my words around, I said nothing about FBO (which is a broad term for FMIC, CAI and DP's). Yeah an "FBO" car without a tune is worse than a stock car with the pressure loss. So what are you trying to mean by FBO?

I said specifically anything under the e85 map packs, Stage 1 and Stage 2 is slow compared to 2020 cars that are being released. It used to be that Stage 2 Cobb of MHD or JB4 would gap the 2015 versions of these cars. Not anymore, you need to go to a custom tune, e85 or upgraded turbos to keep that gap or Stage 2 is getting gapped.

Regarding the M340i, I encourage you or anyone to go to your local BMW dealership and test drive one in sport+ mode. I think you will be presently surprised and will change your opinion of the car/B58.

Kid you don't know what you're talking about.

Refer to your previous posts, MHD stage 2 OTS maps are not designed for FBO, Stage 2+ is.

If you beat a N54 with downpipes only, and getting overexcited, then that shows your immature nature.

A stock M340i is slower than a FBO N54 93 octane, running Stage 2+ MHD OTS maps

If you beat the N54 FBO then that car had issues.

I know the B58 is an excellent engine, fast, tunable. never said it was slow.

The point is you claiming a 370 bhp Stock B58 will beat a 400+whp N54

Apart from the initial launch due to 4 wheel drive the B58 STOCK does not have the power/torque required to keep up.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

stock inlets for me, stock air box and downpipes as well. only stuff it had was psp 750 intercooler and stage 1 fuel it pump. custom e50 rfp tune.

best dragy 0-60 was 3.4 and 3.2 with 1 foot rollout

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Kid you don't know what you're talking about.

Refer to your previous posts, MHD stage 2 OTS maps are not designed for FBO, Stage 2+ is.

If you beat a N54 with downpipes only, and getting overexcited, then that shows your immature nature.

A stock M340i is slower than a FBO N54 93 octane, running Stage 2+ MHD OTS maps

If you beat the N54 FBO then that car had issues.

I know the B58 is an excellent engine, fast, tunable. never said it was slow.

The point is you claiming a 370 bhp Stock B58 will beat a 400+whp N54

Apart from the initial launch due to 4 wheel drive the B58 STOCK does not have the power/torque required to keep up.

Stage 2 Stage 2+, whatever, it's like talking to a child ANYTHING. UNDER. E30 OTS MAP. IS. SLOW. To reiterate show me some time slips and FACTS before you talk, you drive a Stage 1 car and have no idea what it's even like driving stage 2, Stage 2+ let alone anything above. You take horsepower as a "reference" and that's it, everything you mention is just theorized, a wish, a fantasy about the N54 "FBO" (whatever that means) because you have no experience in driving anything beyond a very slow N54 Stage 1.

Shows how ignorant and stubborn you are, I showed you proof of drag races and time slips of from N54tech.com of N54's barely breaking into the high 11's with upgraded turbos (500+ hp) and custom e85 tunes only. But yet you Fantasize that a Stage 2"+" can run about the same time to beat a stock B58 M340i. Shows how naive you are. "Nah mate 400hp Beats 382hp all day..." SMFH 🤦

Show me proof or facts of time slips or GTFO.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Yeah and keep drooling kid, Drew runs a best time of 11.66 in perfect weather with a >>AWD car and a E50 CUSTOM TUNE<< but yet a perfectly launched M340i from a dig is doing 12. Go figure that out, "but but but, 400hp beats 382hp". So if we based Drew's race on your theory, the Challenger running 500hp should have beat Drew's BMW which I'm guessing with a custom e50 custom tune without inlets is running anywhere from 475-490hp to the wheels.

[NoGuru]

Keep in mind driver has something to do with it. I know drew, and I have way more mods then him and he is just as fast as me if not faster.
Drew is the man when it comes to racing.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by NoGuru

Keep in mind driver has something to do with it. I know drew, and I have way more mods then him and he is just as fast as me if not faster.
Drew is the man when it comes to racing.

That's what I'm saying NoGuru. Drew is running a personal best 11.66 which is amazing! But that's Drew driving the car too. A more novice driver would probably be between 12-13 with Drew's exact car... with a E50 custom tune.

Imagine a more novice driver, with a much lesser OTS tune and a RWD not AWD car from a dig. . . beating a B58. Hilarious...

[King Rudi]

I love these threads! The internet is exactly the place to argue about how fast my car is against a hypothetical car.

My dad can beat up your dad!!!

No he can't!

Yes he can!

You're stupid!

No, you're stupid!

Hope you boys sort this out and come to some form of resolution, because the above statements is how everyone else sees this conversation.

Good day.

[srey]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

That's what I'm saying NoGuru. Drew is running a personal best 11.66 which is amazing! But that's Drew driving the car too. A more novice driver would probably be between 12-13 with Drew's exact car... with a E50 custom tune.

Imagine a more novice driver, with a much lesser OTS tune and a RWD not AWD car from a dig. . . beating a B58. Hilarious...

While that's true, there are some omissions in your argument. Just because the guy you're arguing with is OTS stage 1 with some bolt-ons doesn't mean he's, by default, a poor driver. Additionally, just because someone is driving an M340i doesn't mean they are a better driver either. I know that newer cars with launch control take a lot of the talent out of it, but if you're going to make the argument you need to be willing to apply it to both sides. As much as you're boiling down and interpreting his argument as, "FBO N54, 'nuff said," your argument comes across, "B58 AWD, 'nuff said."

Please note that I'm not saying either of you are making such simple, idiotic statements. You're just both talking past each other. Also, name-calling in a debate cheapens your point. Regardless, I hope neither of you stop, because it's hilarious to watch grown men argue over something trivial and inconsequential.

[stewbets]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Yeah and keep drooling kid, Drew runs a best time of 11.66 in perfect weather with a >>AWD car and a E50 CUSTOM TUNE<< but yet a perfectly launched M340i from a dig is doing 12. Go figure that out, "but but but, 400hp beats 382hp". So if we based Drew's race on your theory, the Challenger running 500hp should have beat Drew's BMW which I'm guessing with a custom e50 custom tune without inlets is running anywhere from 475-490hp to the wheels.

His 11.61 time is right in his signature. No big deal, but at least quote the right time. He also doesn't even have downpipes. And if Saif is such the idiot that you are consistently claiming he is, why are you still arguing with him? Is it possible that you've met your equal?

Also, Stage 2 without ethanol is "slow", but add in some ethanol and it suddenly isn't? Come on, there isn't a soul that doesn't understand there will always be a faster car (or thousands of them) out there. This is hardly the platform of bleeding edge speed. But I'd like to think most would agree it's plenty fast.

[nicky dj]

@SRey @stewbets, you're not analytically dissecting my arguments from the thread. My cousin is a lawyer, it's difficult to win an argument with him without providing facts and evidence, same as in the the court of law.

Fast is indeed a relative term. The argument here initially was that anything less than Stage 2+ is behind the curve or "slow" compared to 2020-21 cars being released. Stage 2+ used to be ahead of the curve. The argument transcended to "could a Stage 2+ OTS" beat a stock M340i? Saif's theoretical argument is that a 400hp stage 2 would catch up before because the M340i would peter out up top. My 'experience' from driving both cars, is that the AWD, LSD and especially Z8HP 8-speed keeps the torque perfectly linear through the gears where it does not taper the power down (pretty impressive actually) at all, and keeps the car going till a 12-12.5 1/4 at worst, while the Stage 2+ N54 struggles to get out of 60 ft with its engineering I listed, and levels in 6th to around 13 seconds while the M340i is still putting linear power down low through 6-7-8. I provided experiences and time slips backing up this evidence.

Is Saif a bad driver, I did not say that. Let's just say for arguments sake, that both drivers of both cars are equal. Could some ethanol in a Stage 2+ car add power? Maybe, some timing corrections perhaps, better combustion but it's NOT going to change the timing or PSI output of an actual e85 map tune.

You two want to get on my case to be politically correct? Fine, whatever. You'd like to add your opinions to the argument above, I'm open ears.

[stewbets]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

@SRey @stewbets, you're not analytically dissecting my arguments from the thread. My cousin is a lawyer, it's difficult to win an argument with him without providing facts and evidence, same as in the the court of law.

Fast is indeed a relative term. The argument here initially was that anything less than Stage 2+ is behind the curve or "slow" compared to 2020-21 cars being released. Stage 2+ used to be ahead of the curve. The argument transcended to "could a Stage 2+ OTS" beat a stock M340i? Saif's theoretically argument is that a 400hp stage 2 would catch up before because the M340i would peter out up top. My 'experience' from driving both cars, is that the AWD, LSD and especially Z8HP 8-speed keeps the torque perfectly linear through the gears where it does not taper the power down (pretty impressive actually) at all, and keeps the car going till a 12-12.5 1/4 at worst, while the Stage 2+ N54 struggles to get out of 60 ft with its engineering I listed, and levels in 6th to around 13 seconds while the M340i is still putting linear power down low through 6-7-8. I provided experiences and time slips backing up this evidence.

Is Saif a bad driver, I did not say that. Let's just say for arguments sake, that both drivers of both cars are equal. Could some ethanol in a Stage 2+ car add power? Maybe, some timing corrections perhaps, better combustion but it's NOT going to change the timing or PSI output of an actual e85 map tune.

You two want to get on my case to be politically correct? Fine, whatever. You'd like to add your opinions to the argument above, I'm open ears.

My point was simply that your argument has been a little sloppy and juvenile. No doubt you have a lot of knowledge and experience, but I wouldn't say your delivery of it has been very effective. I'm not all about political correctness, but don't you think there's a balance somewhere between being PC and being a jerk?

These are just my observations. I appreciate you not having me for lunch

[nicky dj]

Haha yes I do admit I get heated a lot towards ignorance 🤬. It's just my personality / flaw. But at the same time I'm all ears and good listener/ learner when someone has input with experience/credentials behind it... anyways it's nothing personal anyhow, it's all just PC keyboard banter anyways.

[srey]

Your cousin is a lawyer? Woah. Sorry. I didn't realize that. I yield.

[srey]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Haha yes I do admit I get heated a lot towards ignorance 🤬. It's just my personality / flaw. But at the same time I'm all ears and good listener/ learner when someone has input with experience/credentials behind it... anyways it's nothing personal anyhow, it's all just PC keyboard banter anyways.

PC?


Seriously, though, I think you are mistakenly conflating our opinions on your rhetoric with us agreeing with your debate rival that a fbo n54 is objectively faster than an m340i. Thanks again for the entertainment. I love the internet.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by srey

PC?


Seriously, though, I think you are mistakenly conflating our opinions on your rhetoric with us agreeing with your debate rival that a fbo n54 is objectively faster than an m340i. Thanks again for the entertainment. I love the internet.

Not conflating whatsoever, just correcting your interpretation of adding ethanol to a "N54 FBO car" . . . If you read the context I'm actually inviting your OPINION to the core argument. But yet here you are chastising me in the same manner as I am to my rival, the irony. . .

And by the way, my rivals opinion is "subjective" not objective.

[srey]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Not conflating whatsoever, just correcting your interpretation of adding ethanol to a "N54 FBO car" . . . If you read the context I'm actually inviting your OPINION to the core argument. But yet here you are chastising me in the same manner as I am to my rival, the irony. . .

And by the way, my rivals opinion is "subjective" not objective.

His claim is that it's objectively faster because dyno numbers. We all know that the performance of a car on the track is subject to various factors. I do know what words mean, sir. My opinion is that it would be a driver's race head to head, skewing towards the newer car with technology that takes a portion of talent out of the equation. Have the same driver make three runs in each and the m240i will probably have three of the four fastest times. The last part of my opinion is that this argument is stupid. Enjoy what you drive. It's ok if people disagree with you. The entertainment in this thread isn't the argument, but your inability to let go. /thread

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by srey

His claim is that it's objectively faster because dyno numbers. We all know that the performance of a car on the track is subject to various factors. I do know what words mean, sir. My opinion is that it would be a driver's race head to head, skewing towards the newer car with technology that takes a portion of talent out of the equation. Have the same driver make three runs in each and the m240i will probably have three of the four fastest times. The last part of my opinion is that this argument is stupid. Enjoy what you drive. It's ok if people disagree with you. The entertainment in this thread isn't the argument, but your inability to let go. /thread

Duly noted... Just a heads up the B58 in the M240i is different than the one in the M340i. I think a lot of people generally associate a M340i with previous M235i/240i's etc. it's not, the G20 version is a whole new beast.

Also I agree with you enjoy what you drive, if it's a stage 1 daily driver and the power level is right in your wheelhouse that's all that matters. My point of being slow was comparing to 2021 standards, I didn't mean slow to be derogatory or insulting in anyway.

And yeah, this argument is actually entertaining for me

[srey]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Duly noted... Just a heads up the B58 in the M240i is different than the one in the M340i. I think a lot of people generally associate a M340i with previous M235i/240i's etc. it's not, the G20 version is a whole new beast.

Also I agree with you enjoy what you drive, if it's a stage 1 daily driver and the power level is right in your wheelhouse that's all that matters. My point of being slow was comparing to 2021 standards, I didn't mean slow to be derogatory or insulting in anyway.

And yeah, this argument is actually entertaining for me

Thanks for the tip on the 240i vs 340i. I'm a couple years I'll be shopping for something with a b58 or for a 996.

I love arguing online. I don't have the time to devote to making a good showing in this one because I'm swamped with projects at work. I am one of those people who enjoy arguing for the same of arguing, though. Cheers

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by srey

Thanks for the tip on the 240i vs 340i. I'm a couple years I'll be shopping for something with a b58 or for a 996.

I love arguing online. I don't have the time to devote to making a good showing in this one because I'm swamped with projects at work. I am one of those people who enjoy arguing for the same of arguing, though. Cheers

Not just the power output, but an integrated M-Sport LSD and I am told the fuel system especially the HPFP has a PSI output of more than twice (I think). AWD is obviously a no brainer unless you're trying to drift a bit etc.

996 that's funny you say because I'm in the market for an SUV and have had my eyes on a used Macan GTS for a couple of years as a DD... I figured yeah it's a Porsche in power but with a PPK and that unparalleled Porsche suspension it makes up for any power margin.

That is until I test drove the M340i at a BMW ultimate experience event and was blown away... So to circle back to the argument, IMO a Stage 2+ or less doesn't "pin" you to your seat like a super performance car say an AMG GT. The e30 OTS map does that for me with the N54 especially in 3rd and 4th gear. Well the M340i not only pins you to your seat at takeoff, it just does not let up as well - also its refined driving experience whipping it around just feels so solid almost M4 like.

Nevertheless, the experience, and input of others of tuning potential of the B58 —550-600hp just with DP's and a Stage 2+ Bootmod3 tune is unreal— has completely swayed me from a Porsche Macan to an X3 M40i.

I highly recommend going to test drive an M340i, it's an amazing experience. Cheers

[Sgop335]

Have to say impressive but litl baffling too w a curb weight of 3800lbs. Of course those crank hp numbers are underrated as shown by dynos...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Couple things that stood out was peak hp is at 6500rpm, so you get to ride the gear and then the 8hp transmis.
Looks like the gear ratios are high giving a strong mechanical advantage over the 6hp...any idea what gear they end up over a 1/4mi?

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Have to say impressive but litl baffling too w a curb weight of 3800lbs. Of course those crank hp numbers are underrated as shown by dynos...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Couple things that stood out was peak hp is at 6500rpm, so you get to ride the gear and then the 8hp transmis.
Looks like the gear ratios are high giving a strong mechanical advantage over the 6hp...any idea what gear they end up over a 1/4mi?

It is quite impressive when you drive it. It does give you that holy shit feel and it has actually put my love and faith back into the ultimate driving machine after the gap of the underwhelming N55 cars.

I'd imagine the xdrive components add about 100lbs and the M-differential is 50-100lbs there. The 8HP would weigh more too, so there is a lot of the weight there.

Just as impressive is that it hits its full 369ft of torque at 1800rpms. Can't say what gear in a 1/4 mile but here's a couple more videos of it at WOT, as you can see this rocket just does not lay off from 60-130mph just when you expect it would. . . The first video is an awesome overall review:

[Silent9n54]

i dont think N54 can run 12.2 on any pump gas tune with stock turbos. That m340 is quick