[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by edo

Thanks a lot for your input, guys. I decided not to build the motor. Especially keeping in mind that the car is already 12 years old...

Regarding N54 vs S65 egines.
Well, both are definitely not perfect. I have blown my moderately tuned engine (tune, intake, downpipes, fmic) in 2009 (the thread) that was 2 years and ~15k miles old. That was a factory defect.

Then a friend of minde blew his stock E92 M3's engine (I was filming the race) because of a rod bearing failure:

the thread

sorry about what happened to your friend. this is one of the reasons i didn't get a e92 m3...i watched the diy for the rod bearings and went F-dat lol. I'd rather deal with injectors and HPFPs.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Actually, pretty much every "M" motor BMW has ever built is stronger than an N54 LOL

People stating that BMW intentionally over-engineered the N54 are pulling that statement out of their ass. There is noting special about the N54. It's actually fairly weak, and has some major flaws, in comparison to some of the other blocks that BMW has built. The S54 has made 1000whp+ on the stock block. Max any N54 has done is 83xwhp... and then those N54s all blew up within days of doing those pulls LOL Spun crank hubs, cracked pistons, bent rods, etc.

These engines are pretty stout up to 600whp if the tune is good. That does not mean that making 600whp+ on a stock block is a good idea. Any competent engine builder will tell you to build the block if you do any kind of performance driving. Stock internals and clearances are designed for efficiency at 300whp that's just facts.

While I don't disagree that some of those other M motors are pretty stout, the N54 is far from weak. It's major design flaws are more like a lack of aftermarket.

This car came with 300 hp crank and people are reliably making 600-800 whp and that's not good enough for you

The crank is strong, the rods are strong. I've never heard of a single N54 needing a headgasket....what other turbo car can make power on the factory bolts/gasket?

There are a lot of challenges to overcome, mainly related to the direct injection, but there are benefits too, like the fact that it can spool a turbo before 4k RPM....an S54 can't do that

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Milan

While I don't disagree that some of those other M motors are pretty stout, the N54 is far from weak. It's major design flaws are more like a lack of aftermarket.

This car came with 300 hp crank and people are reliably making 600-800 whp and that's not good enough for you

The crank is strong, the rods are strong. I've never heard of a single N54 needing a headgasket....what other turbo car can make power on the factory bolts/gasket?

There are a lot of challenges to overcome, mainly related to the direct injection, but there are benefits too, like the fact that it can spool a turbo before 4k RPM....an S54 can't do that

I never once said it was weak. Those are your words. I was talking in terms of relativity to other BMW engines that BMW ACTUALLY designed around performance and making power reliably lol.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

I never once said it was weak. Those are your words. I was talking in terms of relativity to other BMW engines that BMW ACTUALLY designed around performance and making power reliably lol.

Like what? Which BMW engine makes power more reliably than the N54?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Milan

Like what? Which BMW engine makes power more reliably than the N54?

I already named one and I already named a bunch of the drawbacks of the N54 in comparison to just about every other BMW "M" engine. Just go read back. You can chose to ignore my reasons if you want... that's your prerogative.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

I already named one. And I already named a bunch of the drawbacks of the N54 in comparison to just about every other BMW "M" engine. Just go read back. You can chose to ignore it if you want that's your prerogative.

Dude the BMW M engines can’t make stock power reliably. There are multiple generations of documented problems with those motors. Not to mention the cost of going stand-alone exceeds the cost of fixing most of the N54 weak points by a long shot.

[MooreBoost]

This thread started off shitty then went downhill.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Milan

Dude the BMW M engines can’t make stock power reliably. There are multiple generations of documented problems with those motors. Not to mention the cost of going stand-alone exceeds the cost of fixing most of the N54 weak points by a long shot.

I think the dude just hates N54s for some reason. The weaks points of the N54 arent even directly related to the engine..its mainly the DI fueling system.

There's not a lot of other engines other there you can buy for $5k used and make 800whp from with a stock block.

[Jeef]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

I think the dude just hates N54s for some reason. The weaks points of the N54 arent even directly related to the engine..its mainly the DI fueling system.

There's not a lot of other engines other there you can buy for $5k used and make 800whp from with a stock block.

Used motors are way cheaper than that. it's around $1400-1500, all depends on mileage of course.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Jeef

Used motors are way cheaper than that. it's around $1400-1500, all depends on mileage of course.

ok i stand corrected lol...i havent checked N54 prices in awhile.

I know used S54's still go for around 10k and use S65s are around 15k when i lasted checked.

Originally Posted by edo

Guys, do you have something to support your suggestions?

Does your tuner have something to support his suggestions?

You're looking at this argument from the wrong perspective...if you're just gonna take the person who's argument you heard from first as gospel, find a new initial source.

[edo]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

sorry about what happened to your friend. this is one of the reasons i didn't get a e92 m3...i watched the diy for the rod bearings and went F-dat lol. I'd rather deal with injectors and HPFPs.

So you are sorry for my friend blowing his M3 engine and not sorry for me blowing my N54?

[edo]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Does your tuner have something to support his suggestions?

You're looking at this argument from the wrong perspective...if you're just gonna take the person who's argument you heard from first as gospel, find a new initial source.

Well, he does - he had quite a few N54s in his garage with bent rods. According to him, some of them were slightly tuned, with just a reflash/piggyback (tuned not by him) or even stock.

I'm having hard time believing he could just lie like that to me... But this can be the case.

Originally Posted by edo

I'm having hard time believing he could just lie like that to me... But this can be the case.

Yup...I'd have a hard time believing someone trying to charge an exorbitant amount of money for an unnecessary mod you wouldn't be able to even confirm was actually installed in the first place.

The guy is a fool...there is too much information out on the web to prove that he is blatantly wrong; the only person worse off than him are the suckers that actually take the bait.

[b92]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Yup...I'd have a hard time believing someone trying to charge an exorbitant amount of money for an unnecessary mod you wouldn't be able to even confirm was actually installed in the first place.

The guy is a fool...there is too much information out on the web to prove that he is blatantly wrong; the only person worse off than him are the suckers that actually take the bait.

Exactly, this sounds like a typically shop scam and he's probably pulled it over on the other N54 owners whose cars are sitting in his shop. For those not familiar, I recommend reading through this thread: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1585155

OP, connecting rods are NOT a preventative maintenance items on slightly tuned N54s, I advise staying away from this 'tuner'.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by edo

So you are sorry for my friend blowing his M3 engine and not sorry for me blowing my N54?

that too lol... i think all N54 owners have the shared pain of keeping that platform running lol.

like soldiers who shared a fox hole in battle lol.