[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

This is great stuff guys. Thanks for your continued efforts and posting the progress.

Curious ... any long term plans to create a way to swap a manual transmission into the D?

This has been done in Europe. There is a blog site that explains much of the process (but I can't find it right now). As you might have guessed, the challenge is still in the software side of things. Mechanically, it is relatively easy. Unless, you insist on a BMW transmission.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

This has been done in Europe. There is a blog site that explains much of the process (but I can't find it right now). As you might have guessed, the challenge is still in the software side of things. Mechanically, it is relatively easy. Unless, you insist on a BMW transmission.

Hmmm a TR-6060 would be real nice, available with 6th gear ratios from 0.63:1 to 0.5:1, and is rated for an addition 153 ft lbs.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Hmmm a TR-6060 would be real nice, available with 6th gear ratios from 0.63:1 to 0.5:1, and is rated for an addition 153 ft lbs.

I like that.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-6060.pdf

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I like that.

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-6060.pdf

It looks like they came out with some new versions too, up to 650 lb-ft

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Hmmm a TR-6060 would be real nice, available with 6th gear ratios from 0.63:1 to 0.5:1, and is rated for an addition 153 ft lbs.

I'd like that, too! Does it fit mechanically?
The gear ratios are vastly different though.
1 2 3 4 5 6
Tremec: 2.26 1.58 1.19 1.00 0.71 0.5
6hp28: 4.17 2.34 1.52 1.14 0.87 0.69

In 6th gear that would drop rpm from 2100 to 1521. While that would be perfect for mpg, maybe that's a little bit too low?
And what a long 1st gear - it would actually be usable!

Let's cut that that SW crap and get to good old mechanical work!
Just kidding...

[Hoooper]

Yeah there are a couple different ratio options but theyre all pretty different. You can get a 0.68 6th gear it looks like, but 1st and 2nd are wildly different. If this was a project car and not my daily I would seriously consider that. But, its definitely not in the 5 year plan. FWIW I dont think freeway cruise at 1300-1500 would be an issue in this car. Another daily of mine makes less than half the tq and cruises just fine at the same RPM the d currently does, dont have to downshift for anything but the steepest of hills.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by DWR

This has been done in Europe. There is a blog site that explains much of the process (but I can't find it right now). As you might have guessed, the challenge is still in the software side of things. Mechanically, it is relatively easy. Unless, you insist on a BMW transmission.

Would like to see that site if you can dig it up DWR.

Man it'd be nice to get rid of the slushbox, have a 1st gear we can actually use, etc.....

[DWR]

Umm, I believe this thread is about tuning the auto trans ...

[iaknown]

Way to kill the enjoyment of fantasizing and put the thread back on track you killjoy

[DWR]

Per request by MIK325tds, had some time to convert a shift map into something more easily understood. Also selected a better example. See chart below.

[DWR]

Looking for a parameter that indicates shifting status, with the hope it would give a clue to map selection. Doing considerable logging with Testo, just driving under a variety of conditions, I monitored a mystery parameter called "SA". It looks like a logical 'switch'. It's value correlates to both static and transitional states in D and DS. Looks like there are a couple of states I never encountered during my drives, based on the 'blanks' in the patterns. Not sure what to do with this other than share it as something interesting ... maybe it will come in handy later?

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by DWR

Per request by MIK325tds, had some time to convert a shift map into something more easily understood. Also selected a better example. See chart below.

Thanks DWR. It makes it much easier to follow and envision now. By looking at the map for downshift 6>5 I can tell, that this is not the D XE map. At 50mph the downshift at 30% throttle needs to be around 50mph. And the upshift 5>6 is probably a bit lower so they are overlapping.

[Hoooper]

The upshift speed is always going to be higher than the downshift speed for a given throttle %, if it wasn't you would get locked in a perpetual downshift/upshift situation when you hit a cell between the two curves. It looks to me like the downshift at 30% is pretty close to 50mph.

[3lli0t]

Hi.

thank you very much for this thread and your work! I'm also very interessted in an transmission remap for the N57/M57. Concerning the checksum: Afaik NCS-Dummy can update the checksum on modified NFS(WinKfp)-Files!

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

The upshift speed is always going to be higher than the downshift speed for a given throttle %, if it wasn't you would get locked in a perpetual downshift/upshift situation when you hit a cell between the two curves. It looks to me like the downshift at 30% is pretty close to 50mph.

Hey Hoooper, just want to say thanks once again. Your help with the HP Tuners software was a pivotal step in this process.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

The upshift speed is always going to be higher than the downshift speed for a given throttle %, if it wasn't you would get locked in a perpetual downshift/upshift situation when you hit a cell between the two curves. It looks to me like the downshift at 30% is pretty close to 50mph.

That's exactly my complaint with this cal A7610591.0da. At 50 mph it is constantly shifting between 6 and 5 with minimal throttle input. So the two lines must be very close together.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by 3lli0t

Hi.

thank you very much for this thread and your work! I'm also very interessted in an transmission remap for the N57/M57. Concerning the checksum: Afaik NCS-Dummy can update the checksum on modified NFS(WinKfp)-Files!

That is an excellent hint 3lli0t! Thank you very much. I'll check it out. So far I wasn't very fond of NCS-Dummy and would rather use NCS-Expert. But that might change now .

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

That is an excellent hint 3lli0t! Thank you very much. I'll check it out. So far I wasn't very fond of NCS-Dummy and would rather use NCS-Expert. But that might change now .

At the risk of asking a stupid question, where is all this leading? I assume that by dissecting the software files the intent is to create our own transmission software flash. Correct? To the technologically sophisticated folks who have dedicated countless hours to the noble endeavor how far away are we from the end goal (assuming I have summed it up correctly)?

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

That's exactly my complaint with this cal A7610591.0da. At 50 mph it is constantly shifting between 6 and 5 with minimal throttle input. So the two lines must be very close together.

I would love to see the low throttle upshift dropped by several MPH in that range. You can hit 6th at about 42 mph with manual shifting, I see no reason that in D you shouldnt get the same situation at throttle % from 0-15 or even 0-20. The 6>5 would have to be dropped to about 38 in that range in order to make it reasonable though. I sometimes wonder if part of the reason the shifts seem too late at low throttle is because the transmission would just be shifting too much at low speeds if you cram that many gears into just 40 MPH and lower, so they knowingly sacrificed some mileage to avoid the confused transmission experience that many people complained about with the 6 and 8 speed autos when they first came out

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

At the risk of asking a stupid question, where is all this leading? I assume that by dissecting the software files the intent is to create our own transmission software flash. Correct? To the technologically sophisticated folks who have dedicated countless hours to the noble endeavor how far away are we from the end goal (assuming I have summed it up correctly)?

There are no stupid questions. You got it almost right Chief. The SW for this transmission comes in two parts. One is the software which includes the allgorithms on which valves have to close/open in order to achieve gears. That we are not intending to change. The second part is the so called calibration. That's a different file and can be flashed with the same base SW. The cal file contains a whole bunch of maps which for instance tell the SW when to shift from 2>3 based on throttle input and output shaft speed. That is something we are trying to change and are very close to trying out the first changes.
We are also trying to change the lock up behavior of the clutch especially in first and second gear in order to get rid of the slushy behavior. That is a little further out since we haven't found the maps yet and don't quite understand yet how they work.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

I would love to see the low throttle upshift dropped by several MPH in that range. You can hit 6th at about 42 mph with manual shifting, I see no reason that in D you shouldnt get the same situation at throttle % from 0-15 or even 0-20. The 6>5 would have to be dropped to about 38 in that range in order to make it reasonable though. I sometimes wonder if part of the reason the shifts seem too late at low throttle is because the transmission would just be shifting too much at low speeds if you cram that many gears into just 40 MPH and lower, so they knowingly sacrificed some mileage to avoid the confused transmission experience that many people complained about with the 6 and 8 speed autos when they first came out

I think you found the exact trade off. This shift map already looks very crammed. The D XE behavior is pretty much what you're asking for and that's exactly what I like about this cal. It tries to give you very early upshifts and you can "tell" it to shift by slightly lifting the throttle just like you would do for a manual. The difficulty is then to lock in the gear as you roll in the throttle again without the transmission shifting down again. That calls for wide spreads starting at 20% throttle input.
Have you tried the A7610591 yet?

[Hoooper]

I haven't, I was holding out for a better option. Do you think I should try it out? Not reason not to I guess.