[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by Snooky

Do you view the actions of the minority yesterday as being a valid political protest?

or, do you agree with me that they should be very harshly dealt with by the law enforecement authorities?

Wow, you're really putting me on the spot. I feel panic!

Look, don't try to put words in my mouth. It's clear from the scare quotes you used around "peaceful" when starting this thread that rather than being saddened or horrified, you are very pleased that there was some violence, because it gives you something to complain about.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by zltm089

hmmm...my bro wrks for the NHS...

no job is guaranteed atm....

doesn't mean that i shud b smashing windows up!....and plus i just got a court order to pay £1k in library fines!....justice system at its best!...

Right. But nobody here has condoned teh smashing of windows etc. We've said repeatedly that those are the actions of a trouble-seeking minority. The main protest was peaceful and teh police have stated that they were generally very happy about how it all turned out.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by sheps

The fact is, regardless of world markets, we, as a country, were ill-prepared to deal with any fluctuations, and this was a direct result of 12 years of Labour's "spend, spend, spend" mentality.

What happened a few years back was more than a "fluctuation", and it was the result of hyper-deregulated free market capitalism, which was born in the 80s under Thatcher and Reagan. And which was continued, enthusiastically, under Gordon Brown.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by zltm089

hmmm...my bro wrks for the NHS...

no job is guaranteed atm....

doesn't mean that i shud b smashing windows up!....and plus i just got a court order to pay £1k in library fines!....justice system at its best!...

PS. commiserations on the library thing. I've got myself into trouble in the past but not to that extent.

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

Wow, you're really putting me on the spot. I feel panic!

Look, don't try to put words in my mouth. It's clear from the scare quotes you used around "peaceful" when starting this thread that rather than being saddened or horrified, you are very pleased that there was some violence, because it gives you something to complain about.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I was disgusted to see what happened yesterday and I have made it clear in my posts on the subject that I fully recognise that this was a minority of idiots.

You are trying to put words in my mouth by suggesting I am pleased to have seen the damage these people did - I find that a disgusting allegation and request that you apologise...if you are man enough.

The quotation marks around "peaceful" in the thread title were just intended to signify that it was NOT actually a peaceful protest - that's all. I am not politically minded whatsoever and in the past have voted both Labour and Conservative - depending on whose policies I have been most swayed by in the debate.

Again, this was not intended to be a political discussion - only one about illegal behaviour that was allowed to play out live across the world whilst there are some real causes being battled for in areas much less advantaged than here.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by Snooky

You are trying to put words in my mouth by suggesting I am pleased to have seen the damage these people did - I find that a disgusting allegation and request that you apologise...if you are man enough.

Ooooooh. Are we going to get into a manliness debate? Grow up.

Originally Posted by Snooky

Again, this was not intended to be a political discussion - only one about illegal behaviour that was allowed to play out live across the world whilst there are some real causes being battled for in areas much less advantaged than here.

There is no way to consider this matter without a political angle.

The protests were peaceful, with the exception of a tiny minority of troublemakers.

To be honest, I find your tone a bit hysterical. Also, its a bit rich to complain about people bringing politics into the discussion when you yourself began it by mentioning political unrest in Libya etc.

Weird.

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

What happened a few years back was more than a "fluctuation", and it was the result of hyper-deregulated free market capitalism, which was born in the 80s under Thatcher and Reagan. And which was continued, enthusiastically, under Gordon Brown.

+1

As Mervyn King said to the Treasury Select Committee

"the billions spent bailing out the banks and the need for public spending cuts were the fault of the financial services sector!"

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

Ooooooh. Are we going to get into a manliness debate? Grow up.



There is no way to consider this matter without a political angle.

The protests were peaceful, with the exception of a tiny minority of troublemakers.

To be honest, I find your tone a bit hysterical. Also, its a bit rich to complain about people bringing politics into the discussion when you yourself began it by mentioning political unrest in Libya etc.

Weird.

So, you're not going to apologise for making personal accusations that have no foundation?

A big problem with a written forum such as this is that people can read tone or emphasis into something that another poster did not intend. Maybe there is some communication break down here, maybe not. I was not making a political argument. I just want to see the thugs that ran riot get brought to account for what they did and in future I would like to see more done by the police at the time to stop the damage.

I have no problem with peaceful political protest.

I think you have answered my question in a response to another poster whereby you said that the idiots who caused the damage yesterday were wrong to do so (that was all I asked).

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by Snooky

So, you're not going to apologise for making personal accusations that have no foundation?

A big problem with a written forum such as this is that people can read tone or emphasis into something that another poster did not intend. Maybe there is some communication break down here, maybe not. I was not making a political argument. I just want to see the thugs that ran riot get brought to account for what they did and in future I would like to see more done by the police at the time to stop the damage.

I have no problem with peaceful political protest.

I think you have answered my question in a response to another poster whereby you said that the idiots who caused the damage yesterday were wrong to do so (that was all I asked).

Sure, I had no hesitation in condemning the rioters, they had nothing to do with the protest. I just didn't feel like doing it on demand, because you challenge me to do so.

Same reason about the 'apology': if you demand that I apologise, and imply that if I refuse, I am somehow not 'man' enough, that's not exactly going to make me come across all apologetic, is it? Instead let me clarify: I suspected, because of the tone and content of your post, that you weren't really so very shocked and outraged. But if I was wrong in that assumption, and you were not indulging in 'mock outrage', then for that I hereby do apologise.

I'm glad that we can conclude this amicably.

Gotta go now and wrangle kids, sort dinner etc. Hope everybody enjoys the last little bit of their weekend.

[JLR1969]

FM you are a cock.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

FM you are a cock.

Nice. And you?

[Mike in Hampshire]

Ah, so another BMW forum debate descends into name-calling.
FM, JLR and Snooky you are an example of why I usually stick to threads about Poorboys sealant or intercoolers. Apart from this one, couldn't resist.
Any of you, try this "sorry mate, but I have to disagree...." stylie.

OK look: can we all agree; smashing up Oxford Street shops is wrong, simple, no?

Mike.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

Wow, you're really putting me on the spot. I feel panic!

Look, don't try to put words in my mouth. It's clear from the scare quotes you used around "peaceful" when starting this thread that rather than being saddened or horrified, you are very pleased that there was some violence, because it gives you something to complain about.

Wow, just wow!

Personally I found that rather offensive Fielding, and Snooky deserves an apology.
How the hell did you draw that conclusion?

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

What happened a few years back was more than a "fluctuation", and it was the result of hyper-deregulated free market capitalism, which was born in the 80s under Thatcher and Reagan. And which was continued, enthusiastically, under Gordon Brown.

Utter,utter bollocks, only a disturbed and over enthusiastic Labour supporter could believe that

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

+1

As Mervyn King said to the Treasury Select Committee

"the billions spent bailing out the banks and the need for public spending cuts were the fault of the financial services sector!"

I'd agree, but who allowed this to happen under their watch............

Blair & Brown, who are comparable to Cannon & Ball, who were also clowns of the highest order.

[MEGA]

Bliar and Brown were morons and it's ridiculous that Tories are getting the blame.

And lmao at all the children in this topic. If you are that emotive just stay off the forums And yes, this is ME saying this. Heh.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Ah, so another BMW forum debate descends into name-calling.
FM, JLR and Snooky you are an example of why I usually stick to threads about Poorboys sealant or intercoolers. Apart from this one, couldn't resist.
Any of you, try this "sorry mate, but I have to disagree...." stylie.

OK look: can we all agree; smashing up Oxford Street shops is wrong, simple, no?

Mike.

Mike you are my hero

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

OK look: can we all agree; smashing up Oxford Street shops is wrong, simple, no?

Mike.

Thats all I was trying to say Mike - I think those that know me on here know that I am not usually a confrontational bloke. I rose to a personal comment and I'm sure I should have been big enough to ignore it, as you say.

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Wow, just wow!

Personally I found that rather offensive Fielding, and Snooky deserves an apology.
How the hell did you draw that conclusion?



Utter,utter bollocks, only a disturbed and over enthusiastic Labour supporter could believe that



I'd agree, but who allowed this to happen under their watch............

Blair & Brown, who are comparable to Cannon & Ball, who were also clowns of the highest order.

At least Labour now see the error of their ways. Here is what Ed Balls said in his budget response

It was also the fault of governments and central banks –including Britain’s – who did not see the financial crisis coming and should have been tougher in regulating the banks. When the City and the Conservatives called for lighter regulation, we should have ignored them and been tougher still. Every Government in the world got that wrong - and I'd like to say sorry for the part that I and the last Labour government played in that. But if we got that wrong, I think we got our response to the recession right.

As far as the Tories are concerned the City can carry on as normal despite the warnings from Mervyn King that we are heading for another crisis.

Bank of England governor Mervyn King has provoked a furious response from the City after saying yesterday that many banks’ only concern was to “maximise profits next week”.

Warning that lessons of the 2008 crash have not been learned and the banks could now face a second collapse, King told the Daily Telegraph they are still obsessed with bonuses and said that “imbalances” in the sector “are beginning to grow again”.

Blair and Brown may have been clowns but by increasing public sector spending they tried to improve society rather than tearing it apart.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Utter,utter bollocks, only a disturbed and over enthusiastic Labour supporter could believe that

Well I could call your opinions utter bollocks and we could just go on like that.

And if you still think I am a Labour supporter then you've not been paying attention.

Mike's point about name calling is spot on.

A lot if the opinions expressed here are delusional and reflect a very frail understanding of the realities.

[creepy coupe]

Can’t these fcuking Morons see, that it’s shops and business like the ones they targeted, which are fundamental to the economic recovery of this Country

[rsmallwo]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Can’t these fcuking Morons see, that it’s shops and business like the ones they targeted, which are fundamental to the economic recovery of this Country

Disagree, the retail sector whilst having a purpose does not generate wealth for nations. Having a national Trade Surplus will generate wealth for this nation. Increased wealth will lead to increased jobs and will help pay off the debt.

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

At least Labour now see the error of their ways. Here is what Ed Balls said in his budget response

It was also the fault of governments and central banks –including Britain’s – who did not see the financial crisis coming and should have been tougher in regulating the banks. When the City and the Conservatives called for lighter regulation, we should have ignored them and been tougher still. Every Government in the world got that wrong - and I'd like to say sorry for the part that I and the last Labour government played in that. But if we got that wrong, I think we got our response to the recession right.

As far as the Tories are concerned the City can carry on as normal despite the warnings from Mervyn King that we are heading for another crisis.

Bank of England governor Mervyn King has provoked a furious response from the City after saying yesterday that many banks’ only concern was to “maximise profits next week”.

Warning that lessons of the 2008 crash have not been learned and the banks could now face a second collapse, King told the Daily Telegraph they are still obsessed with bonuses and said that “imbalances” in the sector “are beginning to grow again”.

Blair and Brown may have been clowns but by increasing public sector spending they tried to improve society rather than tearing it apart.

Couldn't agree more.

Bankers where to blame for this whole mess, government was too weak in thinking the good times would just continue (they were conned to some degree that the banks would never lose).

We need a scientific revolution to provide a broad avenue of export to the world. Leave low/medium end manufacturing to the Chinese, their labour costs will always be better. We need to think smarter

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by rsmallwo

Disagree, the retail sector whilst having a purpose does not generate wealth for nations. Having a national Trade Surplus will generate wealth for this nation. Increased wealth will lead to increased jobs and will help pay off the debt.

So overseas visitors, shopping in our high-end stores, dining in good restaurants, doesn’t feed our economy?

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

At least Labour now see the error of their ways. Here is what Ed Balls said in his budget response

It was also the fault of governments and central banks –including Britain’s – who did not see the financial crisis coming and should have been tougher in regulating the banks. When the City and the Conservatives called for lighter regulation, we should have ignored them and been tougher still. Every Government in the world got that wrong - and I'd like to say sorry for the part that I and the last Labour government played in that. But if we got that wrong, I think we got our response to the recession right.

As far as the Tories are concerned the City can carry on as normal despite the warnings from Mervyn King that we are heading for another crisis.

Bank of England governor Mervyn King has provoked a furious response from the City after saying yesterday that many banks’ only concern was to “maximise profits next week”.

Warning that lessons of the 2008 crash have not been learned and the banks could now face a second collapse, King told the Daily Telegraph they are still obsessed with bonuses and said that “imbalances” in the sector “are beginning to grow again”.

Blair and Brown may have been clowns but by increasing public sector spending they tried to improve society rather than tearing it apart.

And that's exactly what Ed Miliband stood up to say to the demonstators on Saturday,... NOT! How refreshing it would have been if he'd apologised for Labours role in bringing the current crisis, rather than just jumping on the anti tory bandwagon.

And according to Brendan Barber's speech on Saturday David Cameron is planning to kill off the NHS. Unbelievable clap-trap and complete scaremongering...

'And don't believe it when they say that the NHS is safe in their hands.

'With over 50,000 job cuts already in the pipeline - nurses, doctors, physios, midwives - in the name of so-called efficiency savings of £20 billion, the NHS, as we know it, is already in intensive care.

'And with David Cameron talking about selling it off to 'any willing provider' out to make a profit the NHS is facing the gravest threat in its history.

'Today let us say to him - we will not let you destroy what has taken generations to build. The NHS stands for something different - care, compassion, social solidarity - and let us pledge today to do everything in our power to fight to defend it.

'Let's be clear - our NHS is not for sale.

Since the NHS was founded, there have been many governments, most of them Convervative, and the NHS still thrives. How anyone imagines any government plans to kill it off is beyond me, least of all a government led by David Cameron - someone who values it more than most from personal experience.

And re: Mervyn King's comments,... he also agrees that the deficit cuts cannot be delayed any longer.