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      03-09-2009, 12:18 PM   #23
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''Ministers plan to use average speed cameras, which monitor speeds over distances of up to six miles, to help enforce the new limit. The cameras have already been installed at 43 locations. The Home Office is expected to approve their wider use later this year.''


Where are they then?
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      03-09-2009, 12:24 PM   #24
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Daniel, Oliver and Noel make some good points underneath the article.




''The people that come up with this change are a joke..Do you really think the accidents will decrease as a result of this change. There is only onbe change that will occur : and that is more speed camera income... How about we concentrate on where the accidents are really happening... 30/40mph zones''


Daniel, Bedford, UK



''Anyone that thinks that speed is the sole cause of accidents needs to have a solid look at the standard of their driving

Lower limits mean longer journeys, longer journeys mean more time on the road, more time on the road means more cars on the road, more cars means more congestion more accidents''

Oliver Jackson, Cambridge, England




''Accidents do not happen, they are caused.
Some are mistakes, others are due to irresponsibility.
Training is the key.
We already have 'stealth' speed reductions - normally following major road improvements, ironically.
If 50 is better than 60 then the only safe speed is Zero !''


Noel Ward, Coventry, England
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      03-09-2009, 02:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
For every accident caused by a doddering old granny there are probably 10000 rear end shunts and motorway sideswipes!



You dont see thousands of mindless tailgating idiots on the motorways just waiting for a multiple shunt?

The mothers on their mobiles with the kids in the back?

The van drivers who change lane without looking?

That bloke in a suit with a mapbook on the steering wheel at 65mph? (he's slowed down to make it safe so it must be OK)

The lorries tailgating each other in torrential rain?

You dont see the idiots whose reaction to dense fog is to switch the old lights on and press on regardless?

You miss the muppets doing 40-50 past schools?

You dont see the undertaking idiots on _every_ motorway?

You dont see the crunched wrecks of saxos, corsas and the like driven into ditches by teenagers who think they can drive fast?

What about the people who decide at the last minute they simply _must_ take the next motorway exit and veer across three lanes of traffic, almost losing it on the gravel build up on the chevrons and barely dumping enough speed to make it round the exit ramp?

If you worked in a hospital you'd see countless bikers who get pulled out in front of by apparently normal drivers who are incapable of judging time and distance.

You dont see the lorries spewing derv onto roundabouts from their left open fuel tanks (a lovely way to dispose of a biker next time it rains)?

If you were a motorway cop you'd know that drivers falling asleep at the wheel after driving 5 hours home from an 'important meeting' cause large swathes of destruction.

What about that car in front towing a tiny trailor at ridiculous and unstable speeds?

Bald tyres! defective brakes! FLAT tyres! and that 15 year old toyota with one corner so badly sagging you just know the suspension has gone - see em every day.

What you can't see are the drunks, the stoned and the terminally stupid, the uninsured, the unliscensed and the banned - but they are there in large numbers happily causing accidents too.

Maybe Lincolnshire is different with only tractors and grannies to worry about but from what I see old people are the least of our worries.
Nope, never seen any of those..........except the boy racers.

You seem to have taken my comments a little personal, I take it your coming close to your 60th birthday

Anyway,....joking aside. There are lots of crashes and deaths on the road every day. There aren't any accidents, just results of people doing something wrong.

I am sure is it a small percentage of accidents caused by old people statistic wise, but nothing gets done about them and when a wrinkly gets pulled for doing something stupid they generally get let on their way with a warning.

My wifes grandmother still drives and she is in her 70's and her grandfather still drives at 85!!!!. I personally would take both of their license's away as neither are fit to drive. But yet when she got pulled over for speeding she got let off, because she "didn't realise...ooops, sorry officer" and the last 5 cars she has had have all been crashed because she is a dithering idiot.

Old people cause accidents. Not all, but some stupid ones.

Here is just one example.



I don't think someone with the reaction times of a 30 year old would have done this.

There is no need for you to post up accidents caused by young people....I know they exist.
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      03-09-2009, 02:39 PM   #26
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old people are ressposible for most airbag deployments

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      03-09-2009, 05:12 PM   #27
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For 10 years I was a professional driver, covering about 50,000 miles per annum in the UK & Europe. During that time I did see a few horrific accidents and was a witness to one or two accidents at the moment they actually occurred.

In the other years I averaged about 10K a year, so having now been driving for 26 years on the road (and a few more off road in my youth) I'm up to about 660,000 miles... or there abouts.

As a driver & biker I admit I've made a few errors of judgement and I haven't always driven at the speed indicated on the road sign - instead I judged what speed it was safe to do at the time and in the prevailing conditions - whether is was a clear traffic free day in Scotland or a foggy rush hour in Birmingham.

To date I've had 3 accidents - all minor and none involving serious injury or death (I hope to keep it that way), two of the three were at less than 30mph and I once racked up 3 points for speeding: 38mph in a three house Lincolnshire village at 8pm one clear summers night (I was at more risk of killing a shrew).

Over the years I've seen people doing some very ill advised things and trying all sorts of crazy manouevres in the wrong place and at the wrong time but the one thing I can say is that speed never killed a single one of them - it was the fact that they hit something that killed them (or someone else)!! (That's one of the few things I agree with Clarkson about).

If we had a bit less accent on speed alone and a bit more on driving skills, defensive driving and 'making suitable progress' then the roads in the UK would be a safer environment for everyone and fewer accidents would occur. Sadly though it's easier for the government to put a blanket speed restriction on, which they can then claim resulted in fewer deaths - of course it will, those 'accidentees' will simply be hitting things at a slow enough speed to prevent/reduce death - it will NOT make them safer drivers!! Their poor vehicle skills, poor judgement, disregard for their own safety (or sense of invincibility) will STILL lead to accidents.

The case the government are trying to make is flawed anyway: To quote from their own figures -

"In 2007 there were 30,000 serious injuries on our roads and there were 2,946 deaths". Please Note: Neither statistic says whether these involved drivers, riders, cyclists, walkers or the type of school children we have round our way, who like to nonchalantly walk across the middle of a busy road.

"69% of these accidents occurred on rural roads". Right, so that's 20,700 injuries and 2,032 deaths (of some sort of road users) that occurred on rural roads.

"speed was a factor in 29% of these accidents". Ok, so let me get this right - of the 20,700 injuries and 2,032 deaths that occurred on rural roads, that means that speed was a 'Factor' in 6,003 injuries and 589 deaths but was NOT even a 'Factor' in the other 71% of accidents that occurred?

So, (bear with me) if we were to imagine for a moment that of all the accidents that involve people stubbing their big toes on the bedpost, whilst making their way to the bathroom at night, that speed was a factor in 29% of them, then what should we do? Should we force them all to reduce their speed....or should we encourage them to switch on the light and pay more attention to where they are walking??

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      03-09-2009, 05:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II View Post
For 10 years I was a professional driver, covering about 50,000 miles per annum in the UK & Europe. During that time I did see a few horrific accidents and was a witness to one or two accidents at the moment they actually occurred.

In the other years I averaged about 10K a year, so having now been driving for 26 years on the road (and a few more off road in my youth) I'm up to about 660,000 miles... or there abouts.

As a driver & biker I admit I've made a few errors of judgement and I haven't always driven at the speed indicated on the road sign - instead I judged what speed it was safe to do at the time and in the prevailing conditions - whether is was a clear traffic free day in Scotland or a foggy rush hour in Birmingham.

To date I've had 3 accidents - all minor and none involving serious injury or death (I hope to keep it that way), two of the three were at less than 30mph and I once racked up 3 points for speeding: 38mph in a three house Lincolnshire village at 8pm one clear summers night (I was at more risk of killing a shrew).

Over the years I've seen people doing some very ill advised things and trying all sorts of crazy manouevres in the wrong place and at the wrong time but the one thing I can say is that speed never killed a single one of them - it was the fact that they hit something that killed them (or someone else)!! (That's one of the few things I agree with Clarkson about).

If we had a bit less accent on speed alone and a bit more on driving skills, defensive driving and 'making suitable progress' then the roads in the UK would be a safer environment for everyone and fewer accidents would occur. Sadly though it's easier for the government to put a blanket speed restriction on, which they can then claim resulted in fewer deaths - of course it will, those 'accidentees' will simply be hitting things at a slow enough speed to prevent/reduce death - it will NOT make them safer drivers!! Their poor vehicle skills, poor judgement, disregard for their own safety (or sense of invincibility) will STILL lead to accidents.

The case the government are trying to make is flawed anyway: To quote from their own figures -

"In 2007 there were 30,000 serious injuries on our roads and there were 2,946 deaths". Please Note: Neither statistic says whether these involved drivers, riders, cyclists, walkers or the type of school children we have round our way, who like to nonchalantly walk across the middle of a busy road.

"69% of these accidents occurred on rural roads". Right, so that's 20,700 injuries and 2,032 deaths (of some sort of road users) that occurred on rural roads.

"speed was a factor in 29% of these accidents". Ok, so let me get this right - of the 20,700 injuries and 2,032 deaths that occurred on rural roads, that means that speed was a 'Factor' in 6,003 injuries and 589 deaths but was NOT even a 'Factor' in the other 71% of accidents that occurred?

So, (bear with me) if we were to imagine for a moment that of all the accidents that involve people stubbing their big toes on the bedpost, whilst making their way to the bathroom at night, that speed was a factor in 29% of them, then what should we do? Should we force them all to reduce their speed....or should we encourage them to switch on the light and pay more attention to where they are walking??

You sound just like Clarkson!
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      03-09-2009, 05:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
You sound just like Clarkson!
Hmmm, I'm not sure how to take that

There are a few things he says that I agree with but not everything and given his extreme views about bikers he'd be more likely to get a punch in the mouth than a pat on the back from me.

By the way (just noticed), sincere apologies if it was your village I was speeding through - I was on my way back from Skeggy on business, long day, lapse of concentration...
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      03-09-2009, 06:00 PM   #30
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Guys,

I am not normally one for sending letters, but this latest idiotic proposal from the goverment has prompted me to write to my MP. It has infuriated me as it is simply going to penalise us all.

Unless we speak up, the goverment are sure to implement this. In short this could see an end to the enjoyment of driving on rural roads. I have added a link at the bottom and suggest we really need to spread the message before it's too late.

"Dear Colin Breed MP,

I write to you regarding the government's latest proposal to reduce rural speed restrictions.
I have read the recent reports in the media and this proposal has prompted me to contact you.
Firstly, I would like to point out that I fully support effective measures that improve road safety. However, I do not subscribe to the views of certain politicians who believe the lowering of rural speed limits will result in the reduction of serious road traffic collisions. Moreover, this could increase tensions on our roads or reduce concentration of motorists leading to complacency which in turn will lower their standard of driving.
Whilst I accept that in some instances excess speed is a contributing factor, I feel the main cause of serious road traffic collisions is attributable to driver error/negligence. In other words the lowering of current speed restrictions on our rural roads will not deter those who choose to drive in a dangerous or inappropriate manner.
The government should focus more on targeting irresponsible motorists instead penalising the majority of law abiding and competent drivers who will be unnecessarily impeded by this unfair proposal.
I would appreciate if you could convey my views, which Iím sure others will share, to the minsters behind these proposals.

Yours Sincerely,

(AN ANGRY LAW ABIDING MOTORIST!)"

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alms.cfm
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      03-09-2009, 06:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II View Post
There are a few things he says that I agree with but not everything and given his extreme views about bikers he'd be more likely to get a punch in the mouth than a pat on the back from me.
+1 Nice one Mark.
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      03-09-2009, 06:08 PM   #32
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Animalfreeride: Great idea but what about setting up a petition on the government website and forwarding the contact details to all car forums??

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerbird View Post
+1 Nice one Mark.
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      03-09-2009, 07:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
You seem to have taken my comments a little personal, I take it your coming close to your 60th birthday
Not at all, although I have passed the 40 mark. I agree there are a fair number of stupid and dangerous old people on the rounds but they are totally dwarfed by the stupid things done every day in vast numbers by the majority of drivers ... tailgating for instance. Get on the M1, M25, A1 or any motorway at 5:30 and you will struggle to see anyone driving with a sensible gap to the car in front -thats far worse than some stupid old codger driving into a wall.
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      03-10-2009, 02:25 PM   #34
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According to latest media reports, it looks highly likely that the new restrictions are going to be implemented. I've decided that I'm going to cancel my order of a 335i MSport as the Labour Communist Party have killed any chance of me having any driving enjoyment. Instead i'm going to buy this.

http://tatanano.inservices.tatamotors.com/tatamotors/

Or maybe even this.

Name:  flintstoneDM2004_468x343.jpg
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      03-10-2009, 06:33 PM   #35
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Yabadabadooo!
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      03-16-2009, 04:31 PM   #36
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"Dear Jim FITZPATRICK MP,

I write to you regarding the government's latest proposal to reduce rural speed restrictions.

I have read the recent reports in the media which has prompted me to contact you.

Firstly, I would like to point out that I fully support effective measures that improve road safety. However, I do not subscribe to the views of certain politicians who believe the lowering of rural speed limits will result in the reduction of serious road traffic collisions. Moreover, this could increase tensions on our roads or reduce concentration of motorists leading to complacency which in turn will lower their standard of driving. In other words the lowering of current speed restrictions on our rural roads will not deter those who choose to drive in a dangerous or inappropriate manner.

The local authorty already has the ability to implement speed restrictions on rural roads which is well evidenced throughout the country. A "blanket" reduction will do nothing to improve the standards of driving in this country. The notion of "Speed Kills" is misleading. Speed alone does not kill as most accidents are attributed to poor driving/negligence although accept that in some instances EXCESS speed is a contributing factor.

The government should focus more on targeting irresponsible motorists instead penalising the majority of law abiding and competent drivers who will be unnecessarily impeded by this unfair proposal.


Yours Sincerely,

(Animalfreeride)"

"Dear

Thank you for your recent correspondence to this Department regarding press reports about changes to the national speed limit. This has been passed to the Speed Management Branch and I have been asked to reply.

The Department for Transport keeps all speed limits under review. However, no decisions have been taken about the reduction of any speed limits. Any proposal to change the national speed limit would have to be based on robust evidence of the impact on casualties, emissions and journey times. It would also need to consider issues of enforcement and public acceptability. Any changes would be subject to widespread consultation.

In 2007 there were 2,946 deaths on our roads, with 1,973 of those being on rural roads. The proportion of fatal collisions on rural roads where speed was recorded as a contributory factor was 30%. Given the extent of the casualty problem on these roads, it is clearly vital that the Department looks at ways to reduce these casualties. We are doing this in developing our new road safety strategy, which will be the subject of public consultation in due course.

I hope this is helpful.


John Gray
Speed Policy
Road User Safety Division
Department for Transport"

Guys,

I wrote direct to the idiot who proposed this idea & received the above response. I also received a letter from my MP today direct from House Of Commons.

I'm really surprised the forum hasn't really taken this issue that seriously seeming we are all "petrol heads" !!

In short, unless more of us speak up, they will undoubtedly implement these restrictions & spoil our fun!!

It goes without saying that if we all drove at 10mph then of course there would be fewer serious accidents or fatalities, but it has to be a balance. The government are really missing the point here & should be more focused on driver improvement.
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