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      11-21-2018, 09:12 AM   #23
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You can also check if the cam is rotating by removing the vacuum pump at the front of the engine, which is driven by one of the cams.
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      11-21-2018, 02:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpending View Post
this will not be so easy as you think
during this failure camshafts are bent due the reason that they are not solid like in old M57 (pre 2005)
so you need at least two camshafts(each 800 EUR) or engine from junkyard :-\
yea I would think it affects how the car drives significantly, what is strange about my case is that the car had a hiccup then proceeded to drive another 3 minutes normally, while i did not abuse it i did increase rpm at it did feel like it had full power, for around 2 miles, then engine died.

Would a car with a snapped chain/skipped sprocket or bent valve be able to continue to drive smoothly and normally in every way for 3 minutes?

Thank you I do think you guys have a lot more experience with these timing chains than we do state side.

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Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Your battery charger judges the charge level of the battery by its voltage........
That makes a lot of sense!

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Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
The fastest way of checking if you camshaft turns that I can think of is: Take the intake manifold off and look inside the tangential ports with a scope during crank. Get a remote starter switch from Harbor freight for that ($10).
This is worth a shot! I have to remove the manifold If I intend to replace the fuel pressure regulator anyway. what does the switch hook up to? do you have a link to the switch? thanks!!!


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Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
You can also check if the cam is rotating by removing the vacuum pump at the front of the engine, which is driven by one of the cams.
Thanks I will look into removing the vacuum pump, as I am not familiar.

meanwhile, would reading vacuum on the system ( after pulling 5mmhg) and cranking the engine while reading and looking for increased vacuum be a conclusive test that the vacuum pump is turning and thus the timing chain is still connected?

Tha's what I did here:

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      11-21-2018, 05:21 PM   #25
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Progress:

Checked amp draw after car been sleeping for over 12 hours, and it showed a variable 0.3 to 0.7 amp draw.

Next morning repeated the same check and it showed a constant 0.2 amp draw.

So I measured OHMS resistance on the IBT cable and there was about a 1 OHM resistance when the IBT was plugged into the battery distribution module.

I removed the IBT sensor and Installed a non IBT sensor. Now car cranks a bit better and the pressure regulator ECU codes are gone. Voltage while cranking goes to 10v instead of 9 or 8v

Additionally per ISTA if pressure regulator is unplugged, car should still start in "volumetric pressure mode".

So I think this rules out the pressure regulator.

Pump still does not prime.
and Rpms still cannot be read.

Here is a video of the car cranking



And a better view of the chain




Chain looks good to me!
is it possible the lower chain is snapped?
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      11-21-2018, 05:47 PM   #26
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No, the lower chain drives the pump and drives the chain that goes to the cam.

Have you checked voltage between the body and block while cranking???
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      11-21-2018, 06:46 PM   #27
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I still say your battery needs to be replaced, these electronics aren't just hook it up and it works, the IBS monitors battery voltage and shuts off power to ancillary systems. It has to go through checks before these are activated again. For example I found this bit on newtis:

Replacing the IBS.
The vehicle must remain in a passive state for at least 3 hours after the new IBS is installed: Only then can the new IBS determine the battery condition. Provided that the battery's state of charge is satisfactory, the message will then disappear from the Check Control display and the battery's actual charge status can be shown.

If you are really confident in your battery, try swapping you X5-335 batteries for a day or so. That will at least eliminate that possibility.

Short of that, there is also a great functional description of the low pressure fuel system on there: https://goo.gl/gGwudF

With INPA being able to activate your LPFP, but it not coming on when you are trying to start the car, I would say the EKPS and LPFP are functioning normally. The DDE controls these modules when starting however, so this would seem to be the "break in the chain". Whether the voltage issue is causing this or not is unknown.

Did you talk with your tuner? Perhaps ask about swapping your X5 and 335d DDEs? Or do some digging on newtis and find what DDE pin activates the EKPS/LPFP and read the voltage while starting?
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      11-22-2018, 10:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkstar9 View Post
Progress:

Chain looks good to me!
is it possible the lower chain is snapped?
That's good news! Glad to see that part working.
I'm still puzzled about that arcing sound. Does it happen just after you press the starter button and then it starts cranking a second or so after?
To rule out your tune causing all this it could be worth a try to reflash your DDE with ISTA-P or WinKFP, but that would mean sending the DDE out for tuning again afterwards.
Please also describe in more detail what happened prior to the car dying. What was the last wrenching you did before the last drive? What did the hickup look/sound like before the engine died? Did you see the rpm needle drop the whole cluster reset or something?
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      11-22-2018, 10:20 AM   #29
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Reading your first post again it sounds like the short crank only started after you replace the crankshaft sensor with a new one. Is that correct?
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      11-22-2018, 04:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Have you checked voltage between the body and block while cranking???
The latest voltage after installing non IBT Cable and subsequent full charge is 13.2 asleep and 10.5 while cranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen81 View Post
I still say your battery needs to be replaced,
Im with you I think the failing battery + bad IBT cable + shitty ground strap + colder temperatures could be the culprit here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen81 View Post
these electronics aren't just hook it up and it works, the IBS monitors battery voltage and shuts off power to ancillary systems. It has to go through checks before these are activated again. For example I found this bit on newtis:

Replacing the IBT.
The vehicle must remain in a passive state for at least 3 hours after the new IBT is installed: Only then can the new IBT determine the battery condition. Provided that the battery's state of charge is satisfactory, the message will then disappear from the Check Control display and the battery's actual charge status can be shown.
That is very interesting variable I that could be an big issue here as well

so here is the narrative behind the IBS situation w this car:
Seller disclosed it goes trough batteries, he changed alternator triying to fix the issue. Check engine light used to come on all the time for missing IBS sensor. Since ive had the car for 8 months 10k miles that check engine light never came on. but the code is still present. It did not affect driveability at all

lots of research show this car in fact never came with a IBS cable, There is no harness from battery to DME to connect an IBS cable to because it never came with one from the factory. So why its asking for one now is a mystery unsolved by the people of the internet as there are many cases across different models with the same issue and no resolution.

The only way I can think this phenomenon happens is that someone mistakenly flashed the software for a IBS equipef car into a Non IBS equipped car while the car was at the dealer for service.

Regardless the reason my plan was to retrofit a IBS cable, I bought the cable from ebay used(it was probably defective to begin with ) and to just retrofit the com cable from battery to ecu.

While the IBT cable is not connected and if it has a ecu software requiring a IBT cable speculation seems to be that the car sends 14.xx volts constant at all times. Thus why it burns batteries prematurely.

Still dont know how to adress this other than retrofiting a IBS cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen81 View Post
If you are really confident in your battery, try swapping you X5-335 batteries for a day or so. That will at least eliminate that possibility.

Short of that, there is also a great functional description of the low pressure fuel system on there: https://goo.gl/gGwudF

With INPA being able to activate your LPFP, but it not coming on when you are trying to start the car, I would say the EKPS and LPFP are functioning normally. The DDE controls these modules when starting however, so this would seem to be the "break in the chain". Whether the voltage issue is causing this or not is unknown.

Did you talk with your tuner? Perhaps ask about swapping your X5 and 335d DDEs? Or do some digging on newtis and find what DDE pin activates the EKPS/LPFP and read the voltage while starting?

I think my previous test was not a fair test because the IBS cable was introducing resistance. Swapping the x5 battery seems like a very logical next step

I Talked to DUDMD and they helped me trouble shoot based on codes. But we now can be pretty certain the original crank and pressure regulator codes where voltage related.

Swapping ECUs is a possibility. I think I need to send more voltage first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
That's good news! Glad to see that part working.
I'm still puzzled about that arcing sound. Does it happen just after you press the starter button and then it starts cranking a second or so after?
To rule out your tune causing all this it could be worth a try to reflash your DDE with ISTA-P or WinKFP, but that would mean sending the DDE out for tuning again afterwards.
Please also describe in more detail what happened prior to the car dying. What was the last wrenching you did before the last drive? What did the hickup look/sound like before the engine died? Did you see the rpm needle drop the whole cluster reset or something?
Really happy to see that chain!! 😀

The Arcing sound comes and goes seemingly at random. I think something senses low voltage then goes nope.. plan b abort.

Its a possibility but the car has been tuned for over 10k

Prior to the car diying I had been driving unusually longer trips 50 miles each way 3 times a week for 2 weeks. Usually I drive 5 or 10 miles a day.

That day I had driven about 5 miles, when entering hwy ramp at around 20mph or so in heavy traffic felt a significant slow down. w no sound to accompany it. like someone tapping on the brakes.

I thought something is really wrong here so I let it coast.. for 15 sec or so. checked it was in D tapped brakes all good. reved engine a bit. no issues. eventually taped accelerator took it to 2500rpm momentarely before comiting to enter hwy.

3 min later driving perfectly in stop go traffic it did it 2 more times with 30 seconds between insident then it died when accelerating from standstill.

This time there was no abrubt slow down.
just coasted.

It really felt like a transmission gearing issue. more like someone downshifted abrubtly.

I think the crankshaft was a victim of low voltage.

thats why the transmission didnt know what to do.

Thanks Everybody for all the help!

Ill get to work on the car tomorrow.

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      11-22-2018, 05:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Have you checked voltage between the body and block while cranking???
The latest voltage after installing non IBT Cable and subsequent full charge is 13.2 asleep and 10.5 while cranking

No, I mean to measure between body ground and the engine block while cranking. It should be less than 1volt, ideally almost 0. You are measuring the voltage drop across that ground strap/cable to make sure the block and it's sensors are getting a proper ground.

This will test your makeshift ground strap to eliminate that as the issue... The engine ground if not good can cause many odd issues, so please do that test!
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      11-22-2018, 11:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Have you checked voltage between the body and block while cranking???
The latest voltage after installing non IBT Cable and subsequent full charge is 13.2 asleep and 10.5 while cranking

No, I mean to measure between body ground and the engine block while cranking. It should be less than 1volt, ideally almost 0. You are measuring the voltage drop across that ground strap/cable to make sure the block and it's sensors are getting a proper ground.

This will test your makeshift ground strap to eliminate that as the issue... The engine ground if not good can cause many odd issues, so please do that test!
Oh I get it now!

Positive multi meter lead to Chassis ground and negative MM lead to Engine block measures 0.0 volts while cranking.
(I also turned the meter to OHMS before hand in this same test and it read 0.1 ohms)

These are the points I used for ground to make sure I'm doing this correctly:

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      11-23-2018, 07:19 AM   #33
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Yep, that's the way to check it. Ohms won't find a fault if there is a problem with a wire under high load because the meter tests with a very weak current.
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      11-23-2018, 10:15 AM   #34
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Just to rule this possibility out - did you try the tool32 or INPA job "realign CAS with DDE"? When swapping your DDE from the X5 you'll need that job as well. The DDE and CAS exchange keys on a specific sequence. If they get out of sequence you'll usually get no crank at all. But who knnows, maybe the DDE gives it some grace period before deciding to stop cranking...
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      11-23-2018, 12:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Yep, that's the way to check it. Ohms won't find a fault if there is a problem with a wire under high load because the meter tests with a very weak current.
Great I'm glad that's one variable out of the picture here

The elimination rounds continue!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Just to rule this possibility out - did you try the tool32 or INPA job "realign CAS with DDE"? When swapping your DDE from the X5 you'll need that job as well. The DDE and CAS exchange keys on a specific sequence. If they get out of sequence you'll usually get no crank at all. But who knnows, maybe the DDE gives it some grace period before deciding to stop cranking...

Hey it's worth a shot, until the car starts everything is a go, keep the ideas coming! Ill get to that after the battery swap with the x5. Kind of scared of dong a ecu swap who knows what gremlin will creep up on this old car.


------

Last night I was bit inpatient to see the result of a higher voltage crank so I jumped the 335d with the x5d going against bmw's recommendations I just plugged battery to battery at the back of each car.

First with the x5 off.




And then with the x5 running



That starter is starting to sound really good to me. Battery swap still pending of course.

But then I went on FB and a guy says he had a very similar situation car died while driving and the culprit ended up being a HPFP metering valve. turns out when it fails it just dumps fuel back into the Low pressure side.

Running that scenario in my mind, the DME would have to activate LPFP then sense no fuel pressure, no fuel regulator activation and then immediately send computer into safe mode to prevent HPFP damage.

While my LPFP does not activate upon start I did register voltage at the LPFP for a fraction of a second not even long enough to hear it start.

Where my case is different from the above scenario is that he was able to crak the HPFP low pressure fuel line at the back of HPFP and see fuel at that port while cranking. I did not see fuel at the filter when I cranked mine. But maybe my filter was too clogged to send any or the lines where too full of air to for me to see anything.

So I ran 2 tests on the HPFP metering valve was hoping someone could tell me if the values are of significance.

First a ohm test:
HPFP metering valve measures 2.4 OHMS positive to negative (there is only 2 leads at the sensor)

According to this video


up to 500 OHMS is allowed (depending on manufacturer)

Next test and this one is of Interest to me:
Amp draw providing 12v to Metering valve.



4.2 AMPS Based on the video above 35 to 80 mA is the allowable range. Even allowing for manufacturer differences. If this is true Im way off base here.

Which just gives me an idea...Check AMP draw at the x5 metering valve. brb!

Edit:
The X5 gives 2.4 OHMS and 3.5 AMPS of current draw from metering valve. Same audible click.
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      11-23-2018, 04:59 PM   #36
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​T​here is now fuel at back of hpfp when cranking and at injectors​ as well. Not sure what happened. I just unplugged the fuel metering valve and tapped it lightly with a hammer as well. Car also sounded like one of the cylinders might have fired. ​

​Th​e follo​w​ing codes ​ have ​came back.


I Think it's safe to assume the new code Delivery control valve activation is due to me unplugging it and fiddling with it. running voltage etc.

0042E2 DDE: Changeover, rail pressure control

I had before and thought it was due to a bad battery as it never came back after unplugging the sensor and re plugging it.

004330 DDE: Rail-pressure control valve, activation

came after by itself but never together with the other code above.

Still no rpm's but something is different now:



"current clock ratio for rail pressure regulating valve"
State was stuck at something else before. it said 7% more or less.

Clearing codes multiple times returns this same code



WTF car is cranking beautifully now why no start?

Fuel pressure regulator test is still unsuccessfull (loading for ever) and activation values can never be read. Same thing for fuel quantity control valve. Always get stuck in this screen:



For the first time however I was able to access this screen which is part of the same test schedule.

First time I accessed it I was able to see activation values for Fuel quantity control valve!



Several subsequent attempts failed to show any movement on fuel quantity control valve activation values:



Then I reset the codes and the fuel quantity values started showing again. As if the fuel regulator valve code is shutting down the fuel metering valve as a safety.

Clearing codes does not always bring the values back to life tho.


To summarize
Fuel metering valve sometimes works.
Fuel regulating valve never works except for that clock ratio change from 7 days ago where it was 7.44 and now is 0.00


what say you?

I could swap the x5 battery now
or install the pressure regulator I got from FCP euro.


Edit:

I am able to read activation values for the pressure regulator now, but not the fuel quantity valve. It seems both work intermittently. what has never worked so far is the pressure sensor.

if the regulator is activating I don't see why the pressure sensor is not reading pressure on the rail.

Installed X5 H9 battery again, left it on the battery tender over night. No luck.

will be swapping the pressure sensor from x5 next.
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      11-25-2018, 02:27 AM   #37
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Not sure if you dug into Newtis but there is a page of info on the rail pressure control:
https://goo.gl/QLwbd1

Thought that might help
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      11-25-2018, 12:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen81 View Post
Not sure if you dug into Newtis but there is a page of info on the rail pressure control:
https://goo.gl/QLwbd1

Thought that might help
Thank you
I wish that document specified how the engine is cut out when an impermissible fault is found. I want to know if the lack of engine speed read out is a precursor to the fuel issues or a result of.

I just went to the x5 and unplugged one by one the fuel quantity valve and the fuel pressure sensor. Neither impedes engine start up or camshaft crankshaft operation or engine speed reading

So i have a car that wont start and one that wont quit starting up

The document you linked above is exactly the same for X5D and 3335D

So swapping the pressure sensor ain't going to mean diddly if the ecu isn't measuring engine speed.


Only thing I have not unplugged on the x5 is the pressure regulator on the back of the fuel rail.

Another possible scenario is that the ecu is not providing ground to one of the sensors hooked up to the rail, causing the sensor to discharge static inside the metal rail. will test that next.
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      11-25-2018, 06:01 PM   #39
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Did you try unhooking the crankshaft or camshaft sensor on your X5? I think that would cause the same symptom that you have with the 3335d.
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      11-25-2018, 09:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Did you try unhooking the crankshaft or camshaft sensor on your X5? I think that would cause the same symptom that you have with the 3335d.
That's a genius idea, Im gonna try it but first....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
That is a strange sound. Definitely not normal. Maybe you have a short at the injector that then pulls down voltage enough for the DDE to stop? .

I just tested injector 1: (measuring with fuel line removed)

Pin 1 to pin 2 = Open Loop
Pin 1 to ground = Open Loop
Pin 2 to ground = Open Loop

tested them multiple times making sure my meter is right.

so what does that mean are injectors messing with the avionics?

Can't read the other ones without removing the manifold I dont think, plus it's snowing like crazy over here.
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      11-25-2018, 10:16 PM   #41
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Make sure your ground is good before and after every injector you check by touching the meter to the block expecting almost 0 ohms.
Contact can be intermittent on your ground clip.
Another test could be to just unplug an injector, test crank... Move to next injector. You might be able to pop the connectors off with manifold still on if you are good with needle nose pliers or some other "surgical" item.

Usually on the x5 injectors 5, 6 can be problematic with water corrosion due to the craptastic plastic partitions that crack. Not sure about 3 series.
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      11-26-2018, 12:22 PM   #42
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Things are not looking too good

All injectors read same thing as above no conductivity between pins or from each pin to ground.

I tested them each multiple times. My MM probes read 0.4 ohms when touched together.
Im going to buy a new multimeter to double check readings this makes no sense.

Never read this before complete failure of all injectors, id be concerned what caused them all to quit so suddenly.

glow plug module cover is pretty covered up in oil from previous swirl flap leak. Might be worth taking that out as well.



Still unable to reset adaptations for fuel regulating valve on ista. Cant run the crankshaft test with the manifold off.
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      11-26-2018, 03:09 PM   #43
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You should get a reading between pins hmmm maybe just a crap meter?

I mention testing the ground, not just touching the leads together because sometimes your ground clip can have bad continuity, not biting in well to the metal. I've seen it happen with meggers at work and now I always double check with the ground applied and the test lead to metal shell before and after testing motors etc.
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      11-26-2018, 03:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
You should get a reading between pins hmmm maybe just a crap meter?

I mention testing the ground, not just touching the leads together because sometimes your ground clip can have bad continuity, not biting in well to the metal. I've seen it happen with meggers at work and now I always double check with the ground applied and the test lead to metal shell before and after testing motors etc.
I tried a new meter same results. I Test ground by touching two ground points. and listening for close loop.

Unplugging battery pos and negative shows
17 ohms of resistance positive pole in front of car to chasis ground. Sometimes it shows 0.4 ohms. Even after unplugging ecu

Is this normal? (old meter does not pick this up )

I have unplugged everything under the hood to see if something is interfering with my injector ohm test

Removed all glow plugs and unplugged glow plug module

glow plug resistance test:
Cyl 1 = 1.0 ohm
Cyl 2 = 1.0 ohm
Cyl 3 = 1.1 ohm
Cyl 4 = 0.9 ohm
Cyl 5 = 0.7 ohm
Cyl 6 = 0.8 ohm


there is a bit of diesel fuel + water that leaked around the injectors. I would think this would decrease resistance.
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