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      07-28-2021, 02:16 PM   #23
ctuna
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Meters do not have ground they measure the difference between two points.
And they are high resistance/impedence in the Volt setting's otherwise they
would load down the signal they are trying to measure.

The Xd amps automaticly detect differnetial input so if you have hooked up the
Head unit correctly there will be not problem .
And if you had Hi Fi to begin with and used a Technic Harness for Hi Fi it would
already be correct .
The fact that you are getting sound makes me believe it is hooked up correct.
It's good to measure things but don't get hung up on it if things sound good that
is what is important.

It's the dsp that recieves the Head Unit signals . Is it capable of differential input ?
I would think it would be if it's from JL

Last edited by ctuna; 07-28-2021 at 02:25 PM..
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      07-28-2021, 05:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
I dont know but I am about to give up, I got the radio to produce a nice clean sine wave at 1000hz at 45 clicks on the radio and my output from the rca on the technic harness is still only .038 volts. And even with amp gain all the way down on low level input setting on the jl audio xd 600/6 if I mute the radio I still hear static.
If I disconnect input rca for the twk dsp static is still there. If I disconnect the rca from the amp it goes away. It is only coming from the front speakers rears, underseat and sub are all clear.
Gong sound is controlled by the volume so if I have radio volume muted no warning chimes, if radio is max volume chimes are real loud.
I am using good rca cables not the cheap ones, mine are twisted and shielded cables and are not run near power wires, I ran them under the amp rack and power and grounds are ran on the top of the amp rack which is 1/2 inch mdf. I ran my ground to the factory ground point on the drivers side rear wheel well where all other grounds are.

Has anyone ever taken a voltage reading of the rca connector of the technic harness for the amp bypass harness not the add a sub harness? Or willing to take a measurement at a 1000hz tone for me so I can compare to mine?
Gong loudness is not controlled by the head unit volume knob, it is a fixed level based on the gong settings selected on the head unit. If you are still using your DSP as a master volume you need to stop. It makes no sense to use DSP for this when there is a perfectly fine volume knob on your head unit. Use the DSP remote for subwoofer volume control only.

If I was in your situation I would stop using your DMM/Scope to measure voltage and just free-ball it.

Set the input sensitivity on the DSP to 2V and all outputs to +0dB. Set your DSP volume at max and to do not ever touch it again. The DSP outputs 4V which is considered "low level". Set your amp to low level input and all gains at the minimum. Mute your head unit and play a song. SLOWLY turn up the head unit a few clicks. If by 10 clicks the volume is super quite, turn the input sensitivity on the DSP from 2V to 1V. If by 10 clicks the volume is super loud adjust it to 3V. Remember, the input sensitivity on the DSP is opposite than what you would think. Higher input voltage setting is less sensitive and vice versa. This should get you somewhere in the ball park and your gongs should be a pretty "normal" volume. Then you will need to fine tune from there.
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      07-28-2021, 08:35 PM   #25
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So on the dsp input sensitivity I want the lowest possible voltage that sounds good and loud? Because I had it at 250mV before and after changing out to the new twk dsp I had I was able to set it to 2.7 I belive it was with only needing to lower the output level on my under seat woofers and my sub by 3db.

I only use the dsp's drc205 controller for volume because I was under the impression that's what it was for that way you never went over the max clean output of the head unit. My controller has two dials one for all speakers and one for the sub, also to select presets on the dsp

I still have to reset the gains on the amps since crutchfield is sending a new jl xd600/6 because the speaker terminal clamps keep falling out when you start unscrewing them. So when that comes in I will reset the gains right now they are at 10.3 v when they should be at 17.3.

Then I will listen and see if they need to go down or up by ear, then maybee I can finaly take some measurements with rew and get to tuning
I also fixed the static sound today by removing the technic harness and then reconnecting it now static is gone so it had to be one of the pins or a bad connection
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      07-28-2021, 09:22 PM   #26
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I would think that JL audio has some instructions about how to adjust the twk 88
in conjunction with there amps.
If you haven't done the tune on channel by channel basis you are not getting
the most our of it.

dsp
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1384218
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1383653
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381697
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      07-28-2021, 11:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
So on the dsp input sensitivity I want the lowest possible voltage that sounds good and loud? Because I had it at 250mV before and after changing out to the new twk dsp I had I was able to set it to 2.7

2. So when that comes in I will reset the gains right now they are at 10.3 v when they should be at 17.3.
The sound signal originates with the head unit and as Technic said it outputs 4 volts at 47 clicks on the volume knob. 47 clicks is roughly the highest setting that the HU can output cleanly without distortion, if you turn it past that the signal quality drops. You want to tune the sound system so that when you are playing a song, if you turn the volume to 47 clicks it is very very loud. A sound level high enough that you would not be able to bear listening to it for a long period of time. This is going to be your MAX system volume.

The signal travels from the HU to the DSP. The dsp input sensitivity has to be set to set to match the HU output. We know the signal is 4 Volts at MAX output on the HU when it is at 47 clicks, maybe it's around 2V at 23 clicks? That's is why it was recommended to set the input sensitivity to 2V on your dsp. The dsp takes the incoming signal and scales it either up or down depending on the input sensitivity you choose. If you set the sensitivity to 250mV, it "thinks" the signal is weak and needs to be boosted up. It's now going to take your input signal and boost the shit out of it before it sends it out. Any REALLY small signal from HU is boosted up before going to the amp and creates signal to noise issues because the dsp is too sensitive.

The signal leaves the dsp and goes into the amplifier. The amp has gain settings for each speaker channel where you can again boost the signal further before sending it to the speakers. Lower is better with the gain, over-amplification of input signal will weaken overall sound quality and accentuate any noise (hiss) the cabling is picking up. You will have to fiddle with each channel gain (Front, Rear, Underseat, Sub) to find balanced sound coming from the speakers. It is a very iterative process.
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      07-29-2021, 05:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
I would think that JL audio has some instructions about how to adjust the twk 88
in conjunction with there amps.
If you haven't done the tune on channel by channel basis you are not getting
the most our of it.

dsp
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1384218
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1383653
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381697
They do in the manual it says to use pink noise but when I had a question and asked one oh thier techs he said to use sine waves so that's why I didn't know what to use
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      07-29-2021, 05:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335ie90 View Post
The sound signal originates with the head unit and as Technic said it outputs 4 volts at 47 clicks on the volume knob. 47 clicks is roughly the highest setting that the HU can output cleanly without distortion, if you turn it past that the signal quality drops. You want to tune the sound system so that when you are playing a song, if you turn the volume to 47 clicks it is very very loud. A sound level high enough that you would not be able to bear listening to it for a long period of time. This is going to be your MAX system volume.

The signal travels from the HU to the DSP. The dsp input sensitivity has to be set to set to match the HU output. We know the signal is 4 Volts at MAX output on the HU when it is at 47 clicks, maybe it's around 2V at 23 clicks? That's is why it was recommended to set the input sensitivity to 2V on your dsp. The dsp takes the incoming signal and scales it either up or down depending on the input sensitivity you choose. If you set the sensitivity to 250mV, it "thinks" the signal is weak and needs to be boosted up. It's now going to take your input signal and boost the shit out of it before it sends it out. Any REALLY small signal from HU is boosted up before going to the amp and creates signal to noise issues because the dsp is too sensitive.

The signal leaves the dsp and goes into the amplifier. The amp has gain settings for each speaker channel where you can again boost the signal further before sending it to the speakers. Lower is better with the gain, over-amplification of input signal will weaken overall sound quality and accentuate any noise (hiss) the cabling is picking up. You will have to fiddle with each channel gain (Front, Rear, Underseat, Sub) to find balanced sound coming from the speakers. It is a very iterative process.
Thank you for that break down it made it more understandable for me and now I understand the basics of how the system works so I should be able to figure the input and output out and set it correctly and finaly get it set right
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      08-01-2021, 06:04 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335ie90 View Post
Gong loudness is not controlled by the head unit volume knob, it is a fixed level based on the gong settings selected on the head unit. If you are still using your DSP as a master volume you need to stop. It makes no sense to use DSP for this when there is a perfectly fine volume knob on your head unit. Use the DSP remote for subwoofer volume control only.

If I was in your situation I would stop using your DMM/Scope to measure voltage and just free-ball it.

Set the input sensitivity on the DSP to 2V and all outputs to +0dB. Set your DSP volume at max and to do not ever touch it again. The DSP outputs 4V which is considered "low level". Set your amp to low level input and all gains at the minimum. Mute your head unit and play a song. SLOWLY turn up the head unit a few clicks. If by 10 clicks the volume is super quite, turn the input sensitivity on the DSP from 2V to 1V. If by 10 clicks the volume is super loud adjust it to 3V. Remember, the input sensitivity on the DSP is opposite than what you would think. Higher input voltage setting is less sensitive and vice versa. This should get you somewhere in the ball park and your gongs should be a pretty "normal" volume. Then you will need to fine tune from there.
I got to work on the car again alittle this weekend and I tried this. Set dsp input to 2v, set drc to full volume and left it there, then had to lower some output levels though because they were in the red and clipping. Then played music and turned the volume on radio up 10 clicks, hardly any sound coming threw, turned up to 20 clicks to see and sound was still low, so went upto 30 clicks and sound was finaly loud. I have to get back out there this week to play with input voltages again to dial it in more.

Also using the headunit volume instead of the drc knob intact does control my gong level if I turn headunit volume all the way down with key in, and door open I don't hear the gong sound, turn head unit volume up and gong starts getting louder and louder..
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      08-02-2021, 10:31 AM   #31
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I can only speak from personal experience but on my CIC equipped car the head unit volume knob has no effect on my gongs so I can't help you much on that one.
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      08-02-2021, 11:44 AM   #32
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I jist also tested the navigation voice and damn that was loud aswell, only way to get it to softer was to use the drc volume.

It was already at lowest setting in my idrive and headunit volume didn't make a difference.

Since we know at 47 clicks the headunit should put out 4 volts should I just use that setting on my input sensitivity and adjust from there to see if my chimes go back to normal?
Right now my dsp and amp are amplifying everything that goes into it.

I am a noob at this level of car audio in the past it was always after market radio amp and sub box. And back then I never really fooled with the gains on an amp I just turned it up and down till the music sounded good and left it there. But with the dsp in the mix and factory headunit with line level rca outputs I am having such a hard time to get things right.

I also read some place that the chimes should be coming from the speaker under the drivers side dash but mine are coming from my rear speakers it sounds like
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      08-02-2021, 12:53 PM   #33
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Only the 06 model has the speaker under the driver side panel.
Read somewhere that there is also one in the Instrument cluster.
Don't know if there are ways to reprogram that.
I know it is possible to program out some of the warning's but not
sure which ones . There is a list on the coding sub forum.

Last edited by ctuna; 08-02-2021 at 01:00 PM..
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      08-02-2021, 03:04 PM   #34
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Mine is an 11 and has the actual speaker under the drivers side panel, weather it works or not is another question, I noticed it when I was running the wires for ambiant lights
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      08-02-2021, 04:53 PM   #35
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Show a picture.



https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347218

driver side lower dash panel beneath the steering wheel
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      08-02-2021, 04:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Looked exactly like that with the same optical connector thing which I'm guessing is the bus system?
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      08-02-2021, 04:58 PM   #37
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Most bus jumper and speaker . That is the Most Bus test point used for
diagnostics . All my gongs come threw that speaker but I have an
06 with no idrive and Hi Fi so I will still get gongs with no stereo.
No PDC also .

I take it no gongs are coming through that speaker.
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      08-02-2021, 05:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Most bus jumper and speaker . That is the Most Bus test point used for
diagnostics . All my gongs come threw that speaker but I have an
06 with no idrive and Hi Fi so I will still get gongs with no stereo.
No PDC also .

I take it no gongs are coming through that speaker.
No they are coming threw either front or rear I haven't faded the headunit to find out for sure. I wonder if there is something wrong with the headunit or if I just am that dumb and have something screwed up in the dsp or amp settings. But it is basically just at default settings for the dsp I havent adjusted the eq yet as I'm still trying to sort out the input and output of the dsp.
I may try to just connect from headunit to amps and bypass dsp and see if they are still loud or not
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      08-02-2021, 05:20 PM   #39
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You must be really cranking things up when you listen.
Most people only have an issue with this when they don't amplify
every channel.
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      08-02-2021, 06:05 PM   #40
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I crank it up to 40 clicks or a few more because it still isn't as loud as im told it should be with this setup. And honestly it isn't that loud even at 45, like I can sit and listen to it there for hours without my ears hurting or getting a head act.
And I had thought about disconnecting the rear speakers to see how it sounds, I would run them off the head unit without being amplified if that is where the chimes come from. But not sure how to do that
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      08-02-2021, 08:56 PM   #41
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Did you try just adjusting the rear levels down?
What speakers which positions in the car?
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      08-04-2021, 03:04 PM   #42
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I have the levels set to where they should be for my equipment. I was just out there again fooling with things and noticed that the chimes are coming threw all my speakers, just the loudest in the front ones, if I mute those speakers chimes are not hat loud in the rear speakers.
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      08-04-2021, 03:05 PM   #43
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If I lower the gain on my amp for front channel then I also loose alot of volume on my music, I have everything sounding great right now other then the warning chimes
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      08-05-2021, 12:53 AM   #44
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Which chime's are coming through?
seat belt chimes can be disabled through programming.

https://ncs-expert.com/e90-coding-options-list
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