[machine4321]

Picked up an 07 328i e91 last week as a commuter while the 135 gets some rest.

First, zero codes related to engine or cooling system.

Coolant temps seem normal, on highway and in town. But on a warm day in town, while temp are fine, fan which normally sits at 7-12% water pump speeds are low (39 I think) as temps increase the fan picks up as well as the water pump. Fans start to get out of control and run very loud (75% ish) and water pump ramps up as well, some times 60-70, at times 100 and ive seen a 250? Target amd actual speeds are bang on and don’t deviate. Temps habe never gone above 111c that I have seen.

Coolant temps begin to fall right away and drop down to low 80c the fan and water pump continue to run high. I put my hand in front of the rad and the air isnt hot, in fact the air is barley warm. At this point engine temp was 84c, coolant temp was 84c rad out was 76c. Once I shut the engine of and immediately turn it back on and fan is back at 7% and water pump shows zero but after a couple min it goes back to low speed as temp naturally goes up. I haven’t had the fan shit off on its own once this happens.

Not sure what is causing the fan and water pump to stay on while temps are far below what they should be.

I cant breakdown and want to get ahead of this if there is a larger issue. Starting dream job in two weeks and will have to drive 3hours for a few months for training.

Thx for any help!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by machine4321

... 07 328i e91 [N52 I presume, as opposed to N51?]...
First, zero codes related to engine or cooling system.
Coolant temps seem normal, on highway and in town. But on a warm day in town, while temp are fine, fan which normally sits at 7-12% water pump speeds are low (39 I think) as temps increase the fan picks up as well as the water pump. Fans start to get out of control and run very loud (75% ish) and water pump ramps up as well, some times 60-70, at times 100 and ive seen a 250? Target amd actual speeds are bang on and don’t deviate. Temps have never gone above 111c that I have seen.
Coolant temps begin to fall right away and drop down to low 80c the fan and water pump continue to run high. I put my hand in front of the rad and the air isnt hot, in fact the air is barley warm. At this point engine temp was 84c, coolant temp was 84c rad out was 76c. Once I shut the engine of and immediately turn it back on and fan is back at 7% and water pump shows zero but after a couple min it goes back to low speed as temp naturally goes up. I haven’t had the fan shut off on its own once this happens...
Starting dream job in two weeks and will have to drive 3hours for a few months for training.

1) What Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software (INPA/ISTA) do you have?
1a) Are you able to use something such as INPA > F6 Activations to simply READ/View ECTS Signal & ROTS signal to DME along with (a) Coolant Pump Speed, (b) T-Stat heater activation, and (c) E-Fan Speed. NO Over-ride, just observing values under DME Control?
2) What is the build Month/Year of E91? 2007 Models had major electrical changes effective 3/1/2007. Preferably just provide Last-7 of VIN so I can look up circuits in ISTA.
3) What engine, N52 or N51?
4) Does E-Fan Speed increase when driving at > 30 MPH with NO long stops?
5) Does E-Fan Speed increase even with A/C Compressor OFF (Snowflake LED NOT lit)?

With Answers to those questions, we can suggest additional tests. INPA or ISTA a BIG Help.
George

[marvinstockman]

At least until you get your new ride sorted, use your other car.

[machine4321]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

1) What Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software (INPA/ISTA) do you have?
1a) Are you able to use something such as INPA > F6 Activations to simply READ/View ECTS Signal & ROTS signal to DME along with (a) Coolant Pump Speed, (b) T-Stat heater activation, and (c) E-Fan Speed. NO Over-ride, just observing values under DME Control?
2) What is the build Month/Year of E91? 2007 Models had major electrical changes effective 3/1/2007. Preferably just provide Last-7 of VIN so I can look up circuits in ISTA.
3) What engine, N52 or N51?
4) Does E-Fan Speed increase when driving at > 30 MPH with NO long stops?
5) Does E-Fan Speed increase even with A/C Compressor OFF (Snowflake LED NOT lit)?

With Answers to those questions, we can suggest additional tests. INPA or ISTA a BIG Help.
George

Using protools for diagnostics. N52 as far as I know (canadian male a difference?)

02/22/07 build date.

Fan speed increases when a/c turned on. And drops when turned off prior to things going into crazy mode.

I havent seen the fan speed go over 12% at highway speeds. And thats with a/c on usually.

In town/traffic the fan speed increases eventually as temps increase with a/c off. But im going for a drive to confirm now.

FZ36463

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it

[machine4321]

Originally Posted by marvinstockman

At least until you get your new ride sorted, use your other car.

135 is awaiting oil sample for possible rod bearing issues lol. Bmw life lol.

I bought the e91 for winter and daily use, old job I had a work truck so the 135 was fine. E91 runs amazing im just trying to be proactive and I get bothered when things arent working correctly.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by machine4321

…I get bothered when things arent working correctly.

You and me both…

[machine4321]

Update. Drove in town today, took for ever but fan pretty much stayed at 7% and water pump at zero until temp hit 198ish (says C but in raw section it must be F) water pump went to 39 and fan stayed at 7% for quite some time. Temps hit 230 and things ramped up, fan to 25% and water pump around 50 average. As temps reduced, fan and water pump increased. Temps drop down to 188f which I believe to be pretty low fan and pump still continue to do to much , fan 70s% and water pump 73-100. Turn car of , right back on , water pump 0 and fan 7

[machine4321]

Noticed a slight coolant leak at plastic inlet by OFHG. Ordered alloy replacement as well as OFHG as its leaking oil as well.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by machine4321

... fan pretty much stayed at 7% and water pump at zero until temp hit 198ish (says C but in raw section it must be F) water pump went to 39 and fan stayed at 7% for quite some time. Temps hit 230 and things ramped up, fan to 25% and water pump around 50 average. As temps reduced, fan and water pump increased. Temps drop down to 188f which I believe to be pretty low fan and pump still continue to do to much , fan 70s% and water pump 73-100. Turn car of , right back on , water pump 0 and fan 7

If, in FACT, your Coolant Pump is NOT running at all until ECTS Signal shows Coolant Temp (at OFH) of nearly 200F, do NOT run the vehicle until you evaluate the Coolant Pump and its Control Circuit. The pump should be running in the 50% to 70% of max speed Range by the time ECTS signal is 50C, and at anything above that. The issue may be with your reading of the data as opposed to actual Pump operation, but "Hot Spots" from lack of coolant flow can do serious damage. Do you have ANY Coolant Pump codes, 2E81 through 2E85?

I presume you are using ProTool to read Live Data? I use INPA, and it has screens that allow you to see ECTS Temp Signal as received by DME, as you watch Fan Speed or Coolant Pump Speed (Activation Screen, but simply observing while Fan/Pump under DME Control). If ProTool can do similar, that is what you want to see.

I would test the Coolant Pump (Ignition ON, Engine OFF) by using "Activation" or "Triggering" of the pump at 50% rate to make sure the BSD speed signal is being properly sent to, and received by, the Coolant Pump.

BTW, on N52, there is NO ROTS (Radiator Outlet Temp Sensor) on the Lower Radiator Hose. The DME still gives INPA/ProTool(?) an ROTS value, but on INPA it is ALWAYS exactly 7.5C LESS than the ECTS Value (obviously DME-COMPUTED, NOT sensor signal ;-)

NOT sure what "Temps" you are seeing at a "230" value. Unless that is OIL Temp, that is BOGUS. Mine has never had a Temp Warning Light. My understanding is that the Yellow Engine Temp Warning Light comes on at 215F and the Red at 220. My ECTS signal values per INPA are normally in 90C range per INPA, with engine at hot idle.

So I would START by confirming the ECTS Value that your Scan Tool is reading when "crazy mode" begins. I think that is aptly-named. IF you have an Infrared Thermometer, measure the Temp at the ECTS Sensor at the OFH. You MAY have a faulty signal from the ECTS. If there is a faulty signal received by the DME, that could be due to a connector or wiring issue as opposed to the Sensor itself. INPA (and I presume ProTool as well) can provide an actual Voltage readout of the ECTS signal as received by the DME.

Resistance across the two spades of the ECTS, with Connector removed, should be in the range of 2500 Ohms at 20C, and 250 Ohms at 90C.

If you have any doubts about data posted here previously, you might "start over" with all testing, RECORD the data and test conditions, and confirm any ECTS values with Infrared Thermometer, and Coolant Pump operation by ear or other method if there is any reason to doubt the ProTool readout of pump speed or percentage.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[mainbearing]

Could the thermostat be bad?

[ctuna]

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachmen...ne-pdf.600001/

Runs at 4 different temps under computer control.
See pdf. page 67

In addition to the characteristic map control of the thermostat, the heat management system makes
it possible to use various maps for the purpose of controlling the coolant pump. For instance, the
engine control unit can adapt the engine temperature to match the current driving situation.
This means that four different temperature ranges can be implemented:
112°C • ECO mode (economy)
• 105°C Normal mode
• 95°C High mode
• 80°C High + mapped thermostat mode

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ctuna

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachmen...ne-pdf.600001/

Runs at 4 different temps under computer control.
See pdf. page 67

In addition to the characteristic map control of the thermostat, the heat management system makes
it possible to use various maps for the purpose of controlling the coolant pump. For instance, the
engine control unit can adapt the engine temperature to match the current driving situation.
This means that four different temperature ranges can be implemented:
112°C • ECO mode (economy)
• 105°C Normal mode
• 95°C High mode
• 80°C High + mapped thermostat mode

Thanks for the post. I didn't have time to dig it up, but this is what I was going to post, that the OP is witnessing the N52's cooling maps in action.

And as a side note, SOME N52 do have a coolant temp sensor on the outlet hose. My '06 does have one.

[machine4321]

Thanks for all of the post.

I definitely notice the different modes. It acts completely different all the time while driving lol

The temps never get out of hand even in town (where it runs cooler) but the fan just doesnt come down even though the temp is near 80c unless I cycle the ignition.

[machine4321]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

If, in FACT, your Coolant Pump is NOT running at all until ECTS Signal shows Coolant Temp (at OFH) of nearly 200F, do NOT run the vehicle until you evaluate the Coolant Pump and its Control Circuit. The pump should be running in the 50% to 70% of max speed Range by the time ECTS signal is 50C, and at anything above that. The issue may be with your reading of the data as opposed to actual Pump operation, but "Hot Spots" from lack of coolant flow can do serious damage. Do you have ANY Coolant Pump codes, 2E81 through 2E85?

I presume you are using ProTool to read Live Data? I use INPA, and it has screens that allow you to see ECTS Temp Signal as received by DME, as you watch Fan Speed or Coolant Pump Speed (Activation Screen, but simply observing while Fan/Pump under DME Control). If ProTool can do similar, that is what you want to see.

I would test the Coolant Pump (Ignition ON, Engine OFF) by using "Activation" or "Triggering" of the pump at 50% rate to make sure the BSD speed signal is being properly sent to, and received by, the Coolant Pump.

BTW, on N52, there is NO ROTS (Radiator Outlet Temp Sensor) on the Lower Radiator Hose. The DME still gives INPA/ProTool(?) an ROTS value, but on INPA it is ALWAYS exactly 7.5C LESS than the ECTS Value (obviously DME-COMPUTED, NOT sensor signal ;-)

NOT sure what "Temps" you are seeing at a "230" value. Unless that is OIL Temp, that is BOGUS. Mine has never had a Temp Warning Light. My understanding is that the Yellow Engine Temp Warning Light comes on at 215F and the Red at 220. My ECTS signal values per INPA are normally in 90C range per INPA, with engine at hot idle.

So I would START by confirming the ECTS Value that your Scan Tool is reading when "crazy mode" begins. I think that is aptly-named. IF you have an Infrared Thermometer, measure the Temp at the ECTS Sensor at the OFH. You MAY have a faulty signal from the ECTS. If there is a faulty signal received by the DME, that could be due to a connector or wiring issue as opposed to the Sensor itself. INPA (and I presume ProTool as well) can provide an actual Voltage readout of the ECTS signal as received by the DME.

Resistance across the two spades of the ECTS, with Connector removed, should be in the range of 2500 Ohms at 20C, and 250 Ohms at 90C.

If you have any doubts about data posted here previously, you might "start over" with all testing, RECORD the data and test conditions, and confirm any ECTS values with Infrared Thermometer, and Coolant Pump operation by ear or other method if there is any reason to doubt the ProTool readout of pump speed or percentage.

Please let us know what you find,
George

No codes related to cooling at all. No codes on DME. I will test out temp sensors. So far no concern of overheating but I will check my protools log and see about water pump. Inwent to test the water put but protools kept telling my my ignition was off.

I will go check it now

[machine4321]

Protools is showing no waterpump speed until 90ish (I was driving and missed when it came on).

Idling in 27* weather temp did not exceed 111*C and would come down as watwrpump and fan did their thing at normal speeds. For some reason fan amd water pump are kicking up and the fan just doesnt come down. Wayer pump seems to.

Heres crazy mode, just stays there even if driving. Quick cycle and it drops down. Eventually comes back on as temps increse.
https://youtube.com/shorts/jTSQHA_jHJs?feature=share

Heres water pump activation. Sounds healthy but im not sure on flow.

[machine4321]

Thermostat is also closed until water pump starts. Then opens up

[machine4321]

Back to back testing on my n54 e82, similar behaviour to my n52. No water pimp or thermostat until 190 and than speed starts to register.

Only 19c oit side temp so both car took for ever. N54 thermostat never opened (so protool says) mild water pump speeds (41 mostly) and fan never higher than 24.

N52 was the same but all of a sudden fan kicked up to 60-70% with not real change in temp to warrant the high fan. As temps go down fan turns up a bit. I did go for a drive on highway and it did calm down (even though the temps run higher at speed) but if I stay at idle fan never settles down even though temps are on the bottom end of low temp.

Water pump does open full on n52. But was mostly closed tonight.

Im lost. What is telling the fan to turn on and not off even though temp os good?

[machine4321]

Someone has mentioned over charged ac sustem causing the causing the fan issue

[machine4321]

Bump for any other possibilities

[mstcrstn]

Hello. I know this in an old post, But maybe someone sort out this problem. I am having very similar behaviour on my e92 N43 engine (thermostat changed and no erros) and I can't figure it out.