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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > New Front Upper & Lower Controls Arms Installed 4 Months Ago But Weren't Torqued Up?



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      01-23-2021, 12:34 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
1) I have read on another thread on here that the subframe side bolts going through the bushings are 'stretch bolts' - meaning they stretch on final torque. If I go ahead and loosen them slightly to check for any twisted energy in the bushings, would it be safe to re-tighten the bolts given they are stretch bolts? Or do I need new bolts full stop? (see post No. 27 in below link)

A: the bolts are usually good for 3-4 tightenings. If & when you change the arms out or if you upgrade to the M3 arms, then you should, absolutely get new bolts.


2) What are the torque values for both arms, subframe side and ball joint side? Also, I have read on that same thread that the spec asks for a torque + angle. I take it the angle is always 90 degrees? (Again, see post No. 27 in below link).

A: In the front - 74# plus 90 degrees to the subframe
122# to the hub

You should invest into either a digital angle reader that you attach to a wrench or a torque wrench that has a built in angle reader.

3) I read on the same thread that the ball joint nuts for both arms do not need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded...only the bushing side of the arms need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded. Is this true for all E9x cars? (see post No. 33 of below Link).

A: you should ALWAYS torque the suspension arms at ride height. You measure the distance between the middle of the hub & the bottom of the fender. Take a jack & lift the rotor up to ride height. Then torque accordingly.


4) Finally, how can the ball joint nuts actually be torqued, since a T45 + ratchet is need to stop the ball joint from spinning, therefor not making it possible to put a socket over the ball joint nut?

A: At some point, the inner nut won't need to be tightened. I find it easier to use a 9" extension & tighten it from the over the top of the rotor. Just make sure to use a 1/2 drive.
Thanks for the above advice. I have tightened and torqued the bolts and nuts last week and all was good. Noted your comments about a built in angle reader and will use this next time round.
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      01-24-2021, 03:28 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_solid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
1) I have read on another thread on here that the subframe side bolts going through the bushings are 'stretch bolts' - meaning they stretch on final torque. If I go ahead and loosen them slightly to check for any twisted energy in the bushings, would it be safe to re-tighten the bolts given they are stretch bolts? Or do I need new bolts full stop? (see post No. 27 in below link)

A: the bolts are usually good for 3-4 tightenings. If & when you change the arms out or if you upgrade to the M3 arms, then you should, absolutely get new bolts.


2) What are the torque values for both arms, subframe side and ball joint side? Also, I have read on that same thread that the spec asks for a torque + angle. I take it the angle is always 90 degrees? (Again, see post No. 27 in below link).

A: In the front - 74# plus 90 degrees to the subframe
122# to the hub

You should invest into either a digital angle reader that you attach to a wrench or a torque wrench that has a built in angle reader.

3) I read on the same thread that the ball joint nuts for both arms do not need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded...only the bushing side of the arms need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded. Is this true for all E9x cars? (see post No. 33 of below Link).

A: you should ALWAYS torque the suspension arms at ride height. You measure the distance between the middle of the hub & the bottom of the fender. Take a jack & lift the rotor up to ride height. Then torque accordingly.


4) Finally, how can the ball joint nuts actually be torqued, since a T45 + ratchet is need to stop the ball joint from spinning, therefor not making it possible to put a socket over the ball joint nut?

A: At some point, the inner nut won't need to be tightened. I find it easier to use a 9" extension & tighten it from the over the top of the rotor. Just make sure to use a 1/2 drive.
Thanks for the above advice. I have tightened and torqued the bolts and nuts last week and all was good. Noted your comments about a built in angle reader and will use this next time round.
Harbor freight makes a 3/8th drive torque wrench with a built in angle reader for $135.00 or so after their coupon. It has really good reviews.

It's always a good idea to go back in there and double check the torque after 30 days.
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      01-24-2021, 04:21 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
Harbor freight makes a 3/8th drive torque wrench with a built in angle reader for $135.00 or so after their coupon. It has really good reviews.

It's always a good idea to go back in there and double check the torque after 30 days.
1. UK

2. Why? Bolts don't mysteriously work loose. If you do it right first time, there is no cause for checking anything.
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      01-25-2021, 03:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
Harbor freight makes a 3/8th drive torque wrench with a built in angle reader for $135.00 or so after their coupon. It has really good reviews.

It's always a good idea to go back in there and double check the torque after 30 days.
I managed to get a decent Magnusson (not sure if its known in the US/Canada) torque wrench for 25 and its a 1/2" drive with max torque up to 210 Nm (155 Ft. Lb).

I can buy a angle measure designed for a torque wrench for under 5. I am working to a budget and hence why I am keeping the cost of tools low, but to a good standard.

+1 to Tambohamilton's comment about the bolts - if they are torqued and then turned a further 90 degrees, they should not loosen as they are a TTY bolt. In my case, I used brand new bolts and I don't think the garage did a 90 degrees turn in fear of snapping them, so I think the bolts should be fine. If they were old/rusty or had been torqued and angle turned several times, then I would have bought some new bolts indeed.
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      01-26-2021, 09:21 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_solid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
Harbor freight makes a 3/8th drive torque wrench with a built in angle reader for $135.00 or so after their coupon. It has really good reviews.

It's always a good idea to go back in there and double check the torque after 30 days.
I managed to get a decent Magnusson (not sure if its known in the US/Canada) torque wrench for £25 and its a 1/2" drive with max torque up to 210 Nm (155 Ft. Lb).

I can buy a angle measure designed for a torque wrench for under £5. I am working to a budget and hence why I am keeping the cost of tools low, but to a good standard.

+1 to Tambohamilton's comment about the bolts - if they are torqued and then turned a further 90 degrees, they should not loosen as they are a TTY bolt. In my case, I used brand new bolts and I don't think the garage did a 90 degrees turn in fear of snapping them, so I think the bolts should be fine. If they were old/rusty or had been torqued and angle turned several times, then I would have bought some new bolts indeed.
Not here to argue. There are numerous posts on here that discuss bolts loosening over time. Power steering pump bolts for example. Oil pump bolts are another example. In addition, suspension bolts are probably only good for 4-5 tightenings since they are torque to yield bolts. I can tell you that when I did the rod bearings and used the original bolts to tighten them down with Plasti-gauge, there was a big difference in how they felt vs how the new bolts felt. Keep in mind, rod bolts are in deed steel. I only used the rod bolts a second time just for plasti-gauge purposes & I could see a big difference.

It never hurts to be cautious and double check your torque on suspension parts 30 days after install.
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      01-26-2021, 11:35 AM   #72
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How would you go about checking the torque on a TTY bolt? You could check that the initial torque doesn't shift it, but no way to subsequently check the yield bit without loosening and going again...at which point you're back where you started?
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      01-26-2021, 12:22 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
How would you go about checking the torque on a TTY bolt? You could check that the initial torque doesn't shift it, but no way to subsequently check the yield bit without loosening and going again...at which point you're back where you started?
For fasteners that are xx ft-lb plus 90 Deg I mark the bolt head and subframe with a permanent marker before doing the angle. Then it's easy to visually check for any subsequent movement.

I appreciate that for a bolt using a regular nut (as opposed to the bracket nut the tension strut uses) the nut could loosen, but, I think it's unlikely that it would loosen and the bolt would stay in place.
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      01-26-2021, 04:36 PM   #74
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+1 to the above 2 posts.

If you go and check the bolts after some days, you can't actually check them without first loosening the bolts, then re-torqueing it and then doing the 90 degree turn. You could possibly get a breaker bar and get a feel for the bolt and maybe turn it a little until it backs out but this method will not let you tighten the bolt true to the spec.

I think gjm120's idea is great - simply mark the bolt at the final position (after the 90 degrees turn) then come back after 30 days and check if it has moved...if one is very keen to do so.

I personally think the TTY bolt if tightened correctly should be fine but I won't be surprised if they did loosen up after time as there can be various factors involved... the ambient temperature, number of times the bolt has been tightened etc...
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      01-27-2021, 02:36 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
For fasteners that are xx ft-lb plus 90 Deg I mark the bolt head and subframe with a permanent marker before doing the angle. Then it's easy to visually check for any subsequent movement.

I appreciate that for a bolt using a regular nut (as opposed to the bracket nut the tension strut uses) the nut could loosen, but, I think it's unlikely that it would loosen and the bolt would stay in place.
That makes sense. Never hurts to mark bolts
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      02-01-2021, 04:49 PM   #76
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I've received my Febi drop links and anti-roll bar bushes, so will be doing these soon.

A question however..

The threaded studs on the ball joints have a 5mm hex slot but they also have a 14mm nut stuck to the bottom of the threaded stud... so do I use a allen key to keep the ball joint from moving during tightening or do I use a 14mm spanner on the stuck nut whilst tightening? Or is either way okay? See attached pictures.

Also, what would be the Torque rating for the x4 bolts that hold the anti roll bar bushings in place? From what I remember they are a 13mm hex hex bolt I think...
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      02-01-2021, 05:03 PM   #77
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You'll need to use the Allen key; the nut is basically just finger tight on the same thread and will back out as soon as you get to the nyloc of the nut you're putting on.
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      02-02-2021, 06:29 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
You'll need to use the Allen key; the nut is basically just finger tight on the same thread and will back out as soon as you get to the nyloc of the nut you're putting on.
Ok, understood. What is the use of that nut anyway...is it acting as a spacer?

I take it its going to be a similar case as it was with the ball joints - tighten the nut very snug/tight with a spanner (using a 5mm Allen key) then bring the 14mm socket and torque wrench and torque it up hoping the ball joint doesn't spin!

Why can't they have a hex slot on the bottom of the ball joints! That way neither a crow's foot or pass-through socket and ratchet set won't be needed!
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      02-02-2021, 08:49 AM   #79
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Yeah, get it snug with the ak, then torque with spanner and socket.
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      02-02-2021, 03:21 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Yeah, get it snug with the ak, then torque with spanner and socket.
Ok, thanks.
Could you please confirm on the torque for the anti roll bar bushing brackets?

When Newtis was around, all the details were there but now its a case of searching on the net and not easy to get answers for a specific model...
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      02-08-2021, 03:02 PM   #81
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What would be the socket size for the nuts holding the sway bar bushings? I've seen a couple of videos on Youtube and one chap required a 13mm for his car and another chap needed a 16mm for his car??

Also, what is the torque for these bushing nuts?
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      02-08-2021, 03:06 PM   #82
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Should be 13mm and they only need 21 Nm or 16 ftlb. Don't over-torque them as the studs can break
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      02-09-2021, 04:31 PM   #83
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Should be 13mm and they only need 21 Nm or 16 ftlb. Don't over-torque them as the studs can break
Thanks for confirming this.
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