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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > New Front Upper & Lower Controls Arms Installed 4 Months Ago But Weren't Torqued Up?



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      01-15-2021, 04:06 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Why did they have to take the struts out to realign the top mounts? Something about that is strange, I feel. Do you have pics of what was wrong there?

They installed the top mount wrong and due to that the pin had bent a bit so I got them a new Lemforder mount hence why they removed everything. All was done free of charge. I will look for a pic and post it on here if I find it..

The drop links are handed, so there's a chance they were fitted on the wrong sides on (re)installation. I will check this out soon. Would you know what the torque value for the drop link nuts is? If they are loose or put on the wrong side, I can torque them to spec...

Bump stops are really difficult to install wrongly...I'd be stunned if they messed that up! Yes, that's what I thought. I even got new Febi bump stops and protection cover kits so they're all new as well

Have you checked everything around the top mounts? 3x m8 nuts by the strut brace, and central nut within the mount?
Yes, all 6 nuts are present but whether they are torqued or not, I will check this soon as well. I think the torque for the 6 nuts is 35Nm? Can I check the torque of the central nut with the car on wheels? If so, what would be the Torque for that central nut?

I think some pics might help...
Yes, I will get some pics of the top mount and anything else that seems worthy...
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      01-15-2021, 05:48 PM   #46
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Yep, 34Nm for the 3x m8 nuts. 64Nm for the central nut. 81Nm for the strut to steering knuckle. You'll need a pass-through socket for the central nut, but it can certainly be done with load on the wheels, yes.

58Nm for the arb drop links.
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      01-16-2021, 06:10 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Yep, 34Nm for the 3x m8 nuts. 64Nm for the central nut. 81Nm for the strut to steering knuckle. You'll need a pass-through socket for the central nut, but it can certainly be done with load on the wheels, yes.

58Nm for the arb drop links.
Thanks mate. Can i get away with a deep socket instead of a pass-through? Or does a Hex bit socket bit need to be inserted into the stud to hold it from spinning hence why a pass-through socket is needed?

Is the strut-to-steering knuckle the pinch bolt which holds the strut in place, No. 3 bolt in the below attached diagram?
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Last edited by bmw_solid; 01-16-2021 at 07:23 AM..
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      01-16-2021, 09:05 AM   #48
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Yes, you need to hold the strut shaft with the hex as you turn the nut. If the nut is the right size, you may find that a spark plug socket fits - they often have an external hex on them... Just in case you have one in your socket set.

Yep, that's the bolt I mean.
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      01-16-2021, 10:54 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Yes, you need to hold the strut shaft with the hex as you turn the nut. If the nut is the right size, you may find that a spark plug socket fits - they often have an external hex on them... Just in case you have one in your socket set.

Yep, that's the bolt I mean.
Understood, will look into this soon. Thanks
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      01-18-2021, 06:14 AM   #50
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I'm keen on buying this special 21mm open/window socket designed for ford diesel injectors, to torque the central strut nut...its a 12 point 1/2" drive socket with a wide opening.

By putting this socket on the nut, the wide opening should provide ample access to put a 6mm Allen key into the strut stem and tighten the nut in small turns with my torque wrench.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you reckon it would work?
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      01-18-2021, 09:31 AM   #51
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Looking at it, I think it might struggle with 165Nm...but I could well be wrong. What torque is it designed to hold, on the ford injectors?

Also, is there space for it and torque wrench below the strut?

Would be a win if it checks out though!
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      01-18-2021, 01:53 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Looking at it, I think it might struggle with 165Nm...but I could well be wrong. What torque is it designed to hold, on the ford injectors?

Also, is there space for it and torque wrench below the strut?

Would be a win if it checks out though!
Did you not mention 64Nm for the central nut? Or is it 165Nm?

The ford injector torque value ranges from 30-50 Nm over their uses, I.e. the Jag 2.2d ford engine is 47Nm.

Its made from Chrome Molybdenum which is actually slightly more tougher and harder than Cr-V so I think it should be up to the job. If its 165Nm I will be a bit concerned but think it should get through just fine as long as I be steady and firm with it.
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      01-18-2021, 02:11 PM   #53
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Ah, sorry! Totally forgot we were talking about that...

Yeah, it should be fine. Only things I'd have any concern about are the outside diameter fitting into the hole in the mount, and it having enough depth for the Allen key to clear the top of the mount. If it passes those though, it'll be ideal!
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      01-18-2021, 03:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Ah, sorry! Totally forgot we were talking about that...

Yeah, it should be fine. Only things I'd have any concern about are the outside diameter fitting into the hole in the mount, and it having enough depth for the Allen key to clear the top of the mount. If it passes those though, it'll be ideal!
Great, so its 64Nm, which should be an easy job. As a matter of fact I ordered it from Amazon and received it just now. I can say that its a real heavy and solid socket, so looks up to the job. Its very similar to a 22mm oxygen sensor removal socket - real heavy and strong.

Yes, I am a bit sceptical as well about whether it fits into the small area or not. I hope it will and if it does I'll take a couple of pictures to show it working.

Looking to do this tomorrow fingers crossed!
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      01-18-2021, 04:06 PM   #55
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I have an o2 sensor socket that definitely doesn't fit...fingers crossed for you
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      01-20-2021, 02:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
I have an o2 sensor socket that definitely doesn't fit...fingers crossed for you
Will be checking this tomorrow hopefully.... so fingers crossed.

A question about tightening the central strut nut - Should I slightly loosen the pinch bolt (No. 3 in the schematic), then put the wheel back on, rest the car on its wheels and then tighten the central nut? Or can I just go ahead and tighten the central nut without loosening the pinch bolt?

Finally, I take it that its not required to pre-load the suspension in order to tighten/torque up the anti-roll bar/end link nuts and the pinch bolt?
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      01-20-2021, 04:59 PM   #57
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No need to faff with anything for any of those; just do them however is easiest for you to access them
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      01-21-2021, 12:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
No need to faff with anything for any of those; just do them however is easiest for you to access them
Got to do these today...

You were right about that 21mm diesel injector socket! It did not fit in the opening of the mount, let alone get near the nut! So will need to think of another way to do this...

I did torque the following though:

1) 3x strut mount nuts
2) ARB link nuts
3) Pinch bolt

None of these made any difference to the ride - it still makes that thud over bumps.

However, I did note that the left ARB link is a different make to the right ARB link and these both are 'cheap' parts as I did not purchase these because the garage said they need to be changed whilst they were doing the job, hence they had to order them and got the cheapest.

So now, it falls down to the following pending items:

a) Torqueing of the central strut nut
b) Changing the ARB links to Lemforder, Febi or TRW (which ever is cheapest)
If a) and b) don't make a difference to the ride, then:
c) Tighten the control arm ball joint nuts to 175Nm

Finally, if c) doesn't work, then unfortunately it will be down to changing the struts to B4 non-sport. (The front springs are SE spec 'C7' springs so they are not sport, which is good.)

There is nothing else I can think of as that completes everything on the front axle! The only think left would be to check the ARB bushes but they don't look too bad...
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      01-21-2021, 02:31 PM   #59
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Do you have a video of the suspension noise that you've been chasing?
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      01-21-2021, 04:14 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
Do you have a video of the suspension noise that you've been chasing?
I will record a journey when I next drive the car. Not sure if the phone will pick up the noise but will try to go on a bumpy and rough road to get the loudest thuds/bangs/thumps coming into the cabin.


On another note, I've gone and ordered some Febi Bilstein front anti roll bar bushes (7.50 for 2 bushings on offer at Amazon - not a bad price!) and Febi Bilstein front end links which were also on offer at Amazon!

Since they're not expensive in price, I would prefer the peace of mind over cheap/unbranded parts.
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      01-22-2021, 01:53 AM   #61
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There is also the steering rack itself that could be bad. And track rod to rack connections, as well as the pinch bolts on the rod ends.

The arb drop links sound like a good thing to replace. Do also bear in mind that they are handed! And don't just copy what you take off.
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      01-22-2021, 06:00 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
There is also the steering rack itself that could be bad. And track rod to rack connections, as well as the pinch bolts on the rod ends.

The arb drop links sound like a good thing to replace. Do also bear in mind that they are handed! And don't just copy what you take off.
Will have to check the steering rack - any tips on how to check this?

I had brand new Febi inner and outer track rods fitted, so no issues there. These were installed in front of me and everything looked tight and okay.

A question regarding the anti roll bar bushings - there is some confusion on here regarding using a gliding agent / grease on the inside of the bushing hole...some say that no grease should be applied. The Febi bushings are EPDM Rubber and realoem says a gliding agent (part no. 83192405829) is required for BMW bushings (which are also Rubber). I take it the Febi bushings are very similar to BMW so it would be a good idea to use some gliding agent...just need to know what would be a similar grease to BMW's 83192405829 gliding agent..
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      01-22-2021, 12:12 PM   #63
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The gliding agent is a lubricant that helps with installation but gets absorbed into the rubber, leaving no grease behind. You shouldn't need any grease for the front sway bar bushings but silicone grease won't harm the rubber. I use dielectric grease
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      01-22-2021, 12:30 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
The gliding agent is a lubricant that helps with installation but gets absorbed into the rubber, leaving no grease behind. You shouldn't need any grease for the front sway bar bushings but silicone grease won't harm the rubber. I use dielectric grease
Thanks for clarifying the need of this gliding agent. Makes perfect sense.
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      01-22-2021, 01:59 PM   #65
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1) I have read on another thread on here that the subframe side bolts going through the bushings are 'stretch bolts' - meaning they stretch on final torque. If I go ahead and loosen them slightly to check for any twisted energy in the bushings, would it be safe to re-tighten the bolts given they are stretch bolts? Or do I need new bolts full stop? (see post No. 27 in below link)

A: the bolts are usually good for 3-4 tightenings. If & when you change the arms out or if you upgrade to the M3 arms, then you should, absolutely get new bolts.


2) What are the torque values for both arms, subframe side and ball joint side? Also, I have read on that same thread that the spec asks for a torque + angle. I take it the angle is always 90 degrees? (Again, see post No. 27 in below link).

A: In the front - 74# plus 90 degrees to the subframe
122# to the hub

You should invest into either a digital angle reader that you attach to a wrench or a torque wrench that has a built in angle reader.

3) I read on the same thread that the ball joint nuts for both arms do not need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded...only the bushing side of the arms need to be torqued with the suspension pre-loaded. Is this true for all E9x cars? (see post No. 33 of below Link).

A: you should ALWAYS torque the suspension arms at ride height. You measure the distance between the middle of the hub & the bottom of the fender. Take a jack & lift the rotor up to ride height. Then torque accordingly.


4) Finally, how can the ball joint nuts actually be torqued, since a T45 + ratchet is need to stop the ball joint from spinning, therefor not making it possible to put a socket over the ball joint nut?

A: At some point, the inner nut won't need to be tightened. I find it easier to use a 9" extension & tighten it from the over the top of the rotor. Just make sure to use a 1/2 drive.
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      01-23-2021, 02:55 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_solid View Post
Will have to check the steering rack - any tips on how to check this?

I had brand new Febi inner and outer track rods fitted, so no issues there. These were installed in front of me and everything looked tight and okay.

A question regarding the anti roll bar bushings - there is some confusion on here regarding using a gliding agent / grease on the inside of the bushing hole...some say that no grease should be applied. The Febi bushings are EPDM Rubber and realoem says a gliding agent (part no. 83192405829) is required for BMW bushings (which are also Rubber). I take it the Febi bushings are very similar to BMW so it would be a good idea to use some gliding agent...just need to know what would be a similar grease to BMW's 83192405829 gliding agent..
No tips, sorry. I think they're difficult to check, personally.

Tyre fitting soap for the bushings, is what I'd use. I believe it's similar in function to the BMW stuff.
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