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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Suspension refresh or coils



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      01-06-2021, 03:15 PM   #1
Ryan E92 335i
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Suspension refresh or coils

Hey all, I'm looking to change my suspension on my e92 335i msport. My rears are blown and need replacing. I was looking at just doing Bilstein b8s and then get kws down the line. I priced out what I might need, the b8s with front and rear mount kits, came out to just under 1.2k. Now I'm unsure to go that route or get coils. I'm being told to get Fortune Auto coils, and I'm not sure what comes with coils. Am I going to still need the mount kits and is it worth getting cheaper coils vs the b8s and get nicer coils later
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      01-06-2021, 03:56 PM   #2
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Do it once, do it right. If you have the money, buy the coils, if you don’t have the money, spend what you have wisely. Most of the mounting hardware you’ll need anyway.
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      01-06-2021, 04:26 PM   #3
Ryan E92 335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vester86 View Post
Do it once, do it right. If you have the money, buy the coils, if you donít have the money, spend what you have wisely. Most of the mounting hardware youíll need anyway.
I want kw v3s, but realistically it's not in my best interest to do that with needing to move and eventually needing to replace the turbos. And I wasn't sure if I would need the mounting stuff if I got coils. Car has like 136k on it so I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to replace the mounts. Looks like I'll go with the b8s. It doesn't bother me to not have coils, just want to be able to drive the car without body roll and clunking
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      01-06-2021, 09:50 PM   #4
Cyril Sneer
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Bilstein B14 are $814, sometimes cheaper. ST V1 coil overs are close to that too (same internals etc as KW V1). Add the cost of refreshed mounting parts and see where you're at. Then you'll likely be fine for the life of that car.

KW V3 probably makes no sense for your application.
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      01-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #5
zero2sixtyZ
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If you get FAs, the fronts have camber plates so no mounts needed. Rear mounts are needed, but much cheaper than the fronts.
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      01-07-2021, 09:48 AM   #6
Ryan E92 335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Sneer View Post
Bilstein B14 are $814, sometimes cheaper. ST V1 coil overs are close to that too (same internals etc as KW V1). Add the cost of refreshed mounting parts and see where you're at. Then you'll likely be fine for the life of that car.

KW V3 probably makes no sense for your application.
I'll have to look into them both. I was going to order off FCP. They have the b14s but on backorder and they are, like you said 814 vs the b8s being 800.
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      01-07-2021, 09:49 AM   #7
Ryan E92 335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero2sixtyZ View Post
If you get FAs, the fronts have camber plates so no mounts needed. Rear mounts are needed, but much cheaper than the fronts.
I haven't done any work on the car performance/mods. If I remember correctly I'm pretty sure it has dinan camber plates already. I would assume depending on the coil I might still need them?
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      01-07-2021, 10:30 AM   #8
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kws dont come with any camber plates. imo i wouldnt get them again, their rebuild process is a total nightmare and you wait a month sometimes more to get a shock rebuilt. if you want fortune auto only get 510 since that is an in-house built coilover unlike the 500.

I would also recommend koni yellows. they do everything a b8 does but with usable damping. coilovers aren't always better, so it depends on what your going for. shock and spring combos will always be better than cheap coilovers. also avoid the old b16 pss9, they have a cheese wedge adjuster that is basically an on off switch with poor adjustment throughout the range.

other coilovers to consider would be ycw, fully rebuildable, swift springs, lots of parts, dyno charts provided. kw has decent shock tuning but the build quality isn't great and the adjusters are very easy to break. had issue with them on my v3.

i dont recommend any of the Taiwanese coilovers. if you want to go low and not care about ride quality its probably fine. they are sold by massive trading companies. I dont have any experience with the b14s but read actual good track reviews. a lot of people just say they lower and ride great and it feels good, which is useless biased information.

its not always go coils or go home. koni yellows are pretty much the best choice for anything under 800. with bilstein right up there. if you want good ride quality a refresh is much much cheaper. just dont plan on lowering the car since it will ride like trash
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      01-07-2021, 08:14 PM   #9
Ryan E92 335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphael View Post
kws dont come with any camber plates. imo i wouldnt get them again, their rebuild process is a total nightmare and you wait a month sometimes more to get a shock rebuilt. if you want fortune auto only get 510 since that is an in-house built coilover unlike the 500.

I would also recommend koni yellows. they do everything a b8 does but with usable damping. coilovers aren't always better, so it depends on what your going for. shock and spring combos will always be better than cheap coilovers. also avoid the old b16 pss9, they have a cheese wedge adjuster that is basically an on off switch with poor adjustment throughout the range.

other coilovers to consider would be ycw, fully rebuildable, swift springs, lots of parts, dyno charts provided. kw has decent shock tuning but the build quality isn't great and the adjusters are very easy to break. had issue with them on my v3.

i dont recommend any of the Taiwanese coilovers. if you want to go low and not care about ride quality its probably fine. they are sold by massive trading companies. I dont have any experience with the b14s but read actual good track reviews. a lot of people just say they lower and ride great and it feels good, which is useless biased information.

its not always go coils or go home. koni yellows are pretty much the best choice for anything under 800. with bilstein right up there. if you want good ride quality a refresh is much much cheaper. just dont plan on lowering the car since it will ride like trash
The car is sitting on stock suspension with h&r lowering springs. I'll have to do some looking with what you said to make my decision. For now I just am looking for something that will ride like my 70k mile e92 328 with sport suspension, thing was on rails. I don't plan on daily driving my 335, and it already rides like it has steel bars instead of suspension when hitting bumps. I do want to build the car and eventually put nice suspension on it, for now I just want it to handle good and not clunk
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      01-16-2021, 09:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan E92 335i View Post
The car is sitting on stock suspension with h&r lowering springs. I'll have to do some looking with what you said to make my decision. For now I just am looking for something that will ride like my 70k mile e92 328 with sport suspension, thing was on rails. I don't plan on daily driving my 335, and it already rides like it has steel bars instead of suspension when hitting bumps. I do want to build the car and eventually put nice suspension on it, for now I just want it to handle good and not clunk
The problem is probably the H&R lowering springs. I put eibach pro kit springs on my relatively new b4 sport shocks and they rode worse than stock sport springs. The H&R lower even more than eibach. Going coilovers will give you a much stiffer ride and possibly worse ride quality over bad roads. I do agree, the 328 stock was very fun to chuck around into corners even though it leaned controllably.

Keep the springs and get bilstein b8s/koni yellows. You won't be disappointed. They are on sale on the forum frequently for anywhere around $400 to 600. Or new around 800. You can always buy the shocks used then resell them to get KWs later(you won't lose much). But the KW v3s aren't all sunshine since there are some issues that they have themselves. (clunking, terrible adjustment locations).
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      01-16-2021, 11:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphael View Post
Going coilovers will give you a much stiffer ride and possibly worse ride quality over bad roads.
Do you base this on personal experience? Most reviews I've read of KW, ST, B14 all say pretty much the same - either 'Same as stock sport suspension' or 'Close to sport suspension, slightly firmer but not uncomfortably so'. Genuinely curious about this as I'm trying to decide myself.
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      01-16-2021, 01:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Sneer View Post
Do you base this on personal experience? Most reviews I've read of KW, ST, B14 all say pretty much the same - either 'Same as stock sport suspension' or 'Close to sport suspension, slightly firmer but not uncomfortably so'. Genuinely curious about this as I'm trying to decide myself.
The easiest way to compare general stiffness of different suspension setups is by looking at the spring rate. There is a sticky here that has many different ones:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235797

e90 ZSP or e92
Front: 145 lb/in
Rear: 460 lb/in

KW v1-v3 (non M3)
Front: 190-256 lb/in (progressive average)
Rear: 545-570 lb/in (progressive average)

Based on the numbers, KW v1 is stiffer than stock sport (up to 40% stiffer up front and 20% stiffer in rear) but not by a massive amount. The shocks are also likely to be firmer to control the stiffer springs. Luckily it looks like KWs use progressive springs so the ride should not be super bouncy. Coilovers that use linear spring rates tend to be bouncy because they are the same stiffness all the time. Progressive springs are softer over small bumps and dips and become more and more stiff the more they are compressed and are typically what is used by OEM.

I have Fortune Auto 500s on my e39, which I specced with swift linear springs at 50% stiffer on all corners, and the ride is significantly stiffer and bouncier than sport just to give you an idea.
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      01-16-2021, 01:23 PM   #13
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I just installed some solo werks coilovers. Did the rebate so only cost me $525. They are on sale right now as well. They look just like the ST's. I would describe the feel as OEM sport plus. No complaints for the money. I'll be posting a quick review once I get more time on them.

Solo Werks is a small company out of Fresno California.

Last edited by Yotaismygame; 01-16-2021 at 01:29 PM..
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      01-17-2021, 03:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril Sneer View Post
Do you base this on personal experience? Most reviews I've read of KW, ST, B14 all say pretty much the same - either 'Same as stock sport suspension' or 'Close to sport suspension, slightly firmer but not uncomfortably so'. Genuinely curious about this as I'm trying to decide myself.
I have kw v3 and yes they are definitely more firm, great for street. I could tell the moment I drove on my street and compression was much faster and more controlled. Actually the kw is relatively soft compared to a lot of other coilovers. The KW v1 and ST are practically the same coilover but with st using a steel body to save money vs aluminum which doesn't rust as easily. My shock guru says the progressive spring I have is basically close enough to a linear spring to where the difference won't matter since it's so soft. Out of the box, these are VERY capable shocks if all the internals/valving are the same as the v3. I recommend them for the street and I live in the bouncy hell of norcal.

No idea on how the B14 are. From what I heard the valving isn't great on it but the internals of all bilsteins are great. Sport suspension is a lot better than the stock base model already too. Avoid the older b16 pss9, the cheese wedge adjuster is an on and off switch.

TBH any of these are fine, just stay away from the taiwanese (BCR, Megans), Racelands, or any other Chinese taiwanese coilover. I am fairly certain that they do not research the car properly and most of the stuff they sell is crap anyways. (Never dynoed or QCed, insanely unlinear adjustment knobs, crosstalk, hysteresis). If you need a knob for the cheap koni yellows are the way to go.

I'd say if you need height adjustment then definitely coilovers. Funny enough, kw is also based in Fresno as well, but I don't think the product specirications are the same as solowerks. $525 is a great price though if its comparable or close enough to the st/kw
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      01-17-2021, 09:09 AM   #15
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OP, my suggestion is to check your local CCA area and see if someone has a car spec'ed the way you want. Maybe they will let you drive their car.
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      01-17-2021, 02:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphael View Post
I'd say if you need height adjustment then definitely coilovers. Funny enough, kw is also based in Fresno as well, but I don't think the product specirications are the same as solowerks. $525 is a great price though if its comparable or close enough to the st/kw
Yeah I couldnít say how they compare since Iíve never used another brand on a bmw. But these are close enough to stock I bet one could install them and not tell there wife or whatever and they would never know. Soloís also use a progressive spring. Seem to be more popular with the VW crowd. Be interesting if the same company owns both brand names.
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      01-17-2021, 02:16 PM   #17
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Audi guys seem to like them too. State they give a near stock feel.

Seems like the same company. So maybe the soloís are basically stís with softer characteristics? Canít find any exact specs
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      01-18-2021, 07:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotaismygame View Post
Audi guys seem to like them too. State they give a near stock feel.

Seems like the same company. So maybe the soloís are basically stís with softer characteristics? Canít find any exact specs
Address is the same, is there a link you have with the rebate? That seems like a crazy price if its built and being tested. KW has testing wise is pretty solid, their quality is debatable though and stuff is brittle and will break. Only KW can do the rebuilds
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      01-18-2021, 09:50 AM   #19
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Interesting as I had KW's in my e30 M3 and had no issues in the 4 years I had the car before selling it. Maybe because the the of tire loads and chassis weight. Our roads here in the US in general ____ horribly.

It took quite a while to dial them into a setting I could drive on our streets comfortably.
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      01-18-2021, 10:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphael View Post
Address is the same, is there a link you have with the rebate? That seems like a crazy price if its built and being tested. KW has testing wise is pretty solid, their quality is debatable though and stuff is brittle and will break. Only KW can do the rebuilds
I donít think the rebate is still going on. But the sale that is right now is just as good. I sold my old sport suspension for $100 too so really it only cost me $425
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      01-18-2021, 01:06 PM   #21
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Interesting! Iím surprised this isnít common info. Like the stís everyone raves about how they are KW. Iím sure if more new Solo and KW were some what the same more would buy from Solo.
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      01-20-2021, 01:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotaismygame View Post
Interesting! Iím surprised this isnít common info. Like the stís everyone raves about how they are KW. Iím sure if more new Solo and KW were some what the same more would buy from Solo.
Someone who has them will have to dyno test both side by side and see if the damping force and curves are the same.
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