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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > OE Tuning vs. Active Autowerks ECU Tune



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      11-14-2010, 09:18 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiec View Post
Duration is fixed. It is ground into the camshaft. Valve/Camshaft timing can be adjust via VANOS.

It is not fixed-that is the whole point of vanos-duration is adjusted by vanos and valvetronic adjusts lift infentinely. Duration can be played with by adjusting vanos actuator contolrs and valvetronics can adjust lift

that is the whole point-duration and lift are not fixed to the camshaft-that is the entire point of vanos and valvetronic.... but thanks for playing
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      11-14-2010, 09:34 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5erman View Post
It is not fixed-that is the whole point of vanos-duration is adjusted by vanos and valvetronic adjusts lift infentinely. Duration can be played with by adjusting vanos actuator contolrs and valvetronics can adjust lift

that is the whole point-duration and lift are not fixed to the camshaft-that is the entire point of vanos and valvetronic.... but thanks for playing
Not trying to get into a pissing contest here, just hate to see people preaching misinformation. VANOS adjusts cam timing in relation to crankshaft angle/position. The camshaft(s) can be advanced or retarded in relation to the crankshaft. Again, duration is FIXED, it is ground into the camshaft. No engine with a camshaft has infinitely variable duration. Honda offers VTEC, which offers two different cam profiles. BMW has one fixed cam profile, augmented with variable lift on the intake side. Duration is ground into the camshaft and cannot be altered.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ble_vanos.html
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      11-14-2010, 02:04 PM   #47
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I cant continue to argue with someone who is not on the proper page

Lets say for simplicity there are 3 different points where the vanos comes in (even though it is actually conitinous)
low-valves open later
mid-valves open earlier
high-valve opens much later

The DME has control over this and can ultimately adjust when the valves open-so if you wanted to tune the midrange for more power if you could also adjust other factors such as lift and other computer changes, then you could use the "high rev" opening time to put on the mid-range rpms and you would have the valves opening later then they would stock on the mid rpm.

Not saying that is where you would want it to open later-that would be dictated by all the other changes and a dyno-but to illustrate point.

While the duration from open to closed is fixed-the point at which you open it and thus ultimately the duration over that rpm range is variable.

cant argue if you dont grasp simple engine mechanics
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      11-14-2010, 04:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5erman View Post
I cant continue to argue with someone who is not on the proper page

Lets say for simplicity there are 3 different points where the vanos comes in (even though it is actually conitinous)
low-valves open later
mid-valves open earlier
high-valve opens much later

The DME has control over this and can ultimately adjust when the valves open-so if you wanted to tune the midrange for more power if you could also adjust other factors such as lift and other computer changes, then you could use the "high rev" opening time to put on the mid-range rpms and you would have the valves opening later then they would stock on the mid rpm.

Not saying that is where you would want it to open later-that would be dictated by all the other changes and a dyno-but to illustrate point.

While the duration from open to closed is fixed-the point at which you open it and thus ultimately the duration over that rpm range is variable.

cant argue if you dont grasp simple engine mechanics
The fact you made it so difficult to figure out how to adjust the vanos makes me feel even less wanting to mess with it, so if the only SAFE things left to do are throttle response, timing and A/F, I might just get a PBX and call it a day.
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      11-14-2010, 06:51 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiec View Post
Awesome discussion!

Craven- Does your special e90post pricing apply only to local-to-SoCal and mail-in flashes, or can this special pricing be extended to my local OE reseller? If I could drive to my local OE retailer and get this done for the special pricing...
Has this been answered? Is special pricing available at any OE retailer?
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      11-14-2010, 08:00 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5erman View Post
cant argue if you dont grasp simple engine mechanics
Dude, you're the one who doesn't know the difference between timing and duration. Ugh.
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      11-14-2010, 09:18 PM   #51
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Makes you wonder....

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
I don't mean to bag on you but this one left me
scratching
my head. Dyno pulls in manual cars are usually done in 4th gear only, no shifting while it's recording.
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      11-14-2010, 09:29 PM   #52
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While the camshaft has a fixed profile, the opening duration of it varies with with how much lift is being determined by the valvetronic.

Think of it as a continuously variable rocker arm ratio. if you change rocker arms on a chevy V8, lift and duration increase, even though the cam profile stays exactly the same. When valvetronic changes the fulcrum point on the arm that functions as the rocker, it changes the lift and duration simultaneously.

So yes, actual valve opening duration does change with the valvetronic system, even though the actual cam spec is static.
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      11-15-2010, 04:28 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The fact you made it so difficult to figure out how to adjust the vanos makes me feel even less wanting to mess with it, so if the only SAFE things left to do are throttle response, timing and A/F, I might just get a PBX and call it a day.
Our Performance Software is safe for this vehicle and custom tunes it to the modifications you have on your vehicle. We have tested this Performance Software on this vehicle in all various conditions to ensure Performance without compromising reliability and driveabilty of the vehicle. Please feel free to contact me directly if you would like more information.
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      11-15-2010, 07:44 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke III View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The fact you made it so difficult to figure out how to adjust the vanos makes me feel even less wanting to mess with it, so if the only SAFE things left to do are throttle response, timing and A/F, I might just get a PBX and call it a day.
Our Performance Software is safe for this vehicle and custom tunes it to the modifications you have on your vehicle. We have tested this Performance Software on this vehicle in all various conditions to ensure Performance without compromising reliability and driveabilty of the vehicle. Please feel free to contact me directly if you would like more information.
I am still working on my intake mods, unfortunately after I am done with them I don't think I can even describe to you guys so it can be factored into the tune

How much change will be made on the software based on what kind of mod?

This is to both vendors, I understand why socal has the advantage in tuning locations, but still hoping I don't have to drive very far for a tune. I know shipping out the ECU is no big deal for you guys, but I am not like you guys
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      11-16-2010, 05:29 PM   #55
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I will probably end up getting one or the other based on convenience to me (Texas) and any potential group buys. Waiting on final news of ez-flash module tho
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      11-16-2010, 06:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I am still working on my intake mods, unfortunately after I am done with them I don't think I can even describe to you guys so it can be factored into the tune

How much change will be made on the software based on what kind of mod?

This is to both vendors, I understand why socal has the advantage in tuning locations, but still hoping I don't have to drive very far for a tune. I know shipping out the ECU is no big deal for you guys, but I am not like you guys
We do tuning for vehicles not just in the US & Canada where we do not have access to the vehicles. If you could provide a base dyno of what your vehicle producing right now we could have it tuned to spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t1mmy View Post
I will probably end up getting one or the other based on convenience to me (Texas) and any potential group buys. Waiting on final news of ez-flash module tho
We have a Shop in the Texas that you can purchase your tune directly from without any down time. I will PM the dealer in your area where you can purchase this Performance Software from.
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      11-16-2010, 11:43 PM   #57
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The results are similar, so I guess it is personal preference. Only time will tell which one is more reliable.
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      11-18-2010, 08:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
I don't mean to bag on you but this one left me scratching my head. Dyno pulls in manual cars are usually done in 4th gear only, no shifting while it's recording.
Do we have an answer to this question? Why would anyone shift during the official pull? Craven 328? Thanks.
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      11-19-2010, 07:37 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iSport View Post
Do we have an answer to this question? Why would anyone shift during the official pull? Craven 328? Thanks.
I know I started this thing by asking whether OE's several dynos looked not so "smooth". Craven 328 seemed to have given a bad answer, maybe he simply was not totally familiar with a dyno process, which is not a very good thing, or was a little drunk when he posted the response

But to be fair, the not so smooth curves do not appear to be caused by the OE tune, because the stock curves are also similarly not smooth. The tuned curves simply followed the stock curves. My guess is some of the cars used in the OE dynos were old cars, not generating smooth power bands in the first place.

But who knows, maybe his dyno guy likes to shift I am no expert in this. I must say using the 4th gear fixed during a dyno makes sense.
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      11-19-2010, 08:21 PM   #60
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wonder why craven never answered this? why did you say you shift on a dyno?
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      11-19-2010, 10:11 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottycs View Post
Looks like AA has similar results with a better price at $399.
Isn't the AA tune for the 328i listed at $499 on their website? Or am I reading it wrong? Thanks.
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      11-19-2010, 10:19 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iSport View Post
Isn't the AA tune for the 328i listed at $499 on their website? Or am I reading it wrong? Thanks.
AA tune is $399. I got my ECU flashed at Jlevi SW (North Cal) today.
Disconnected battery earlier to reset ECU. Will let you guys know my butt dyno later
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      11-20-2010, 03:12 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoostedBMWM3 View Post
The results are similar, so I guess it is personal preference. Only time will tell which one is more reliable.
AA is a very reputable company
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      11-20-2010, 03:55 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog View Post
AA tune is $399. I got my ECU flashed at Jlevi SW (North Cal) today.
Disconnected battery earlier to reset ECU. Will let you guys know my butt dyno later
Is it required to reset the ECU after the tune?

I wish I live near them. AA has so many dealers in Socal but only one in Norcal.
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      11-20-2010, 05:54 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Is it required to reset the ECU after the tune?

I wish I live near them. AA has so many dealers in Socal but only one in Norcal.
Cal@JleviSW recommended me to do so as this should allow for faster ECU adaptation.
I was quite fortunate to find out the AA dealer was less than 10 mins away !
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      11-20-2010, 07:40 AM   #66
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I've had the tune for some time now. I have to get some service done that involves disconnecting the battery Tuesday. What should I do? Anything different Viral/ Omar? Would that quantify resetting the ECU? I assume the firmware will remain intact. Please advise. Also, any new features coming down the pipe for ATs with the AA tune? Thanks!!
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