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      10-10-2017, 04:07 AM   #1
S3nder
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bmw valvetronic disable

Hello

do we have some member who can disable valvetronic from system and code car to run with throttle valve only ?
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      10-10-2017, 06:35 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by S3nder View Post
Hello

do we have some member who can disable valvetronic from system and code car to run with throttle valve only ?
Why would you want to do this?
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      10-11-2017, 01:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Why would you want to do this?
Why Every forum where I ask help for disable then someone starts to ask why I am want to disable ... ? Its broken and repair cost to much for owner and Its easyier to disable and Because projekt car dont need this .
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      10-11-2017, 11:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by S3nder View Post
Why Every forum where I ask help for disable then someone starts to ask why I am want to disable ... ? Its broken and repair cost to much for owner and Its easyier to disable and Because projekt car dont need this .
I ask because you requested help without giving any reason why you wanted to disable the valvetronic. The answer depends on your reasons.

If you don't want to spend money on the fix. Just drive it, the DME will go into fail safe mode and use the throttle body to control engine load. You will get a warning light and engine RPM will be limited to 6,500 RPM. If for some reason the Valvetronic is stuck, then unplug the motor and use an Allen key on the back of the Valvetronic motor and gently turn it until the cam is in the full load position. Sorry, Don't remember the direction. Leave unplugged.

You can not Code out the Valvetronic, this mod would require a DME tune and that would cost more than fixing the Valvetronic.
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      12-08-2017, 05:30 AM   #5
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On 4syl engines valvetronic disable gives way better throttle response and more low end torque,done many times.
N62 wont work like small engines,limp mode rev limiter is 2000rpm and power is reduced to toyota yaris level.

Thread starter n62 runs on me9 ecu what is not familiar to me or him,probably it should be disassembled in ida to understanding how it works and how to bypass whole vvt system.

At this point seems like we are stuck somewhere half a way,2000rpm limiter can be avoided but still missing lot of power,dyno shows clearly that car hits some limiter.

Winols and damos are not enough any more and ida is out of our league...

View post on imgur.com

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      03-15-2018, 03:42 AM   #6
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Valvetronic off - any risk

I really like the throttle response with valvtronic off. I had the error : too much adjust, valvtronic system off. Since then, i get instant response when WOT. I am going to dyno the diffrence to make shure there is more power. My concern is that the BMW mechanics told me that they arent shure if there is any danger in running without valvtronic.

Please advise !!!.

+

Is JB4 can be used whitout valvtronic ?


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      04-04-2018, 05:12 AM   #7
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Exclamation Diagnosis Help!

Can anyone tell me what what these fault codes mean and weather it is going to cost me an arm and a leg to fix!
2a67 VVT - Activation
2a6b Power Supply Limit VVT - Emergency
2a5b VVT - Ref. Sensor

So i had a warning light appear on my car )Only owned for 3 months). After a few diagnoses from other garages, i finally took my car to BMW, who told me to replace the eccentric shaft sensor and the Rocker cover gasket as they found some Oil around the sensor plug. I had them both changed through the dealer; however this did'nt help as the warning light is still there. I don't know if BMW Diagnosed it right but i need this problem fixed ASAP! I also would like to know if anyone has had similar issues and if so, how they resolved it. At this point i don't even know weather the car is worth keeping so i need some advice! Thank you!
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      05-08-2018, 10:17 AM   #8
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So is this final - the only way to disable vvt is to disconnect the ess, at which point the throttle is used ? any other precaution or simply unplug, that's it ? + will this cause issues in the long run ? anyone know if any power limitation will occur with ess off ? (Jeesus seems allude to some limitations but on different engines)

hassmaschine how did you do it ?
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      05-08-2018, 02:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaanBMW View Post
So is this final - the only way to disable vvt is to disconnect the ess, at which point the throttle is used ? any other precaution or simply unplug, that's it ? + will this cause issues in the long run ? anyone know if any power limitation will occur with ess off ? (Jeesus seems allude to some limitations but on different engines)

hassmaschine how did you do it ?
You cannot just simply unplug the valvetronic motor if it has failed. You have no way in knowing at what degree of eccentric rotation the motor failed at... You need to manually adjust the eccentric shaft to max lift.

I am not sure what position a working motor keeps the eccentric shaft in when the motor is in the OFF position. I would guess that it is at MINIMUM valve lift with the car off. Again, you'd have to open/drill the valve cover and manually rotate to max lift.

No one has invested in identifying a DME fix for the CEL after disabling valvetronic. Since it can be done on older motors, I am sure there is a way to do it on new ones too.

I run my N55 with valvetronic disabled and the valves set to max lift. No issues as far as I am aware except re-tuning was needed to control mass airflow at low rpms.
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      05-14-2018, 11:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
You cannot just simply unplug the valvetronic motor if it has failed. You have no way in knowing at what degree of eccentric rotation the motor failed at... You need to manually adjust the eccentric shaft to max lift.

I am not sure what position a working motor keeps the eccentric shaft in when the motor is in the OFF position. I would guess that it is at MINIMUM valve lift with the car off. Again, you'd have to open/drill the valve cover and manually rotate to max lift.

No one has invested in identifying a DME fix for the CEL after disabling valvetronic. Since it can be done on older motors, I am sure there is a way to do it on new ones too.

I run my N55 with valvetronic disabled and the valves set to max lift. No issues as far as I am aware except re-tuning was needed to control mass airflow at low rpms.
my vvt motor has not failed, to the contrary - it's brand new. i'm just trying to get rid of vvt for troubleshooting purposes.

so - at least for a short while - disabling it via disconnecting the ess = is that ok ? will it cause some irreparable harm ? or given the eccentric camshaft is not at this max lift position, will it only cause some (bad ?) power loss, but not much else ? you mention a CEL, i did experience the half engine CEL when I did the vvt motor swap, and yes, it was scary as car seemed to be possessed by demons (highly unstable behavior)

ultimately the question is - how can I (at least for now) temporarily test the car w/ vvt disabled ? discussion about long term is not yet pertinent.
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      05-21-2018, 10:02 PM   #11
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someone's got to know this... am I right or am I screwing up my car up with a short term ESS disconn. / vvt disabling ?
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      05-23-2018, 01:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaanBMW View Post
someone's got to know this... am I right or am I screwing up my car up with a short term ESS disconn. / vvt disabling ?
What you need to know is what position the eccentric shaft is in when the car is off. Does valvtronic default to min lift when you turn the car off? Does the eccentric shaft run to max lift when the car turns off? Or, does teh eccentric shaft stay at whatever it was at when you shut the car off?

I am guessing the valvetronic motor puts the eccentric shaft to either min or max lift when you shut the car off... I guess this only because the motor runs when you start the car... why else would it be running if not to move back to idle valve lift settings?

If you unplug the valvetronic motor with the car off and you can't get it to turn over then you know the eccentric shaft is at min lift. If the car runs fine then they are probably at max lift (get a log). No damage can come of this except the risk of blowing something electrical if you attempt to disconnect valvetronic with the car running or something lol
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      05-23-2018, 10:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
What you need to know is what position the eccentric shaft is in when the car is off. Does valvtronic default to min lift when you turn the car off? Does the eccentric shaft run to max lift when the car turns off? Or, does teh eccentric shaft stay at whatever it was at when you shut the car off?

I am guessing the valvetronic motor puts the eccentric shaft to either min or max lift when you shut the car off... I guess this only because the motor runs when you start the car... why else would it be running if not to move back to idle valve lift settings?

If you unplug the valvetronic motor with the car off and you can't get it to turn over then you know the eccentric shaft is at min lift. If the car runs fine then they are probably at max lift (get a log). No damage can come of this except the risk of blowing something electrical if you attempt to disconnect valvetronic with the car running or something lol
OK, I'm still unclear about all this. here's why. (Oh, and I've been only talking about disconnecting ESS not the VVT motor)
  1. max lift -> AFAIK max lift should correspond to max opening of the valves. if so, why is this a must ? or is it just better (for like better cylinder filling) ? either way, why ?
  2. max, min, or in-between lift -> since these are gas engines with relatively low compression ratios, I would think any valve lift should work. meaning than even at max valve travel there should no danger of the piston hitting the valve in fully open position. is this accurate ?
  3. since this is just a short-term test, and assuming 2 above is accurate, why would it matter if when I disconnect ESS my vvt motor had eccentric shaft in max valve lift, or min lift, or in-between lift ?
  4. is the disconnecting the ESS even in fact disabling the VVT motor ? again all is working on my car, what I want is to disable the VVT on the car in order to troubleshoot, and all I seem to read is that disconnecting ESS will do this but I'm still unsure if that's true
  5. is all this maybe not related to any of the above, and possibly to something else ? like say (and these are just my speculations) with the DME accepting a non-working ESS only upon seeing the eccentric shaft in max valve lift ?
tuners or people with a better understanding of the relationships involved in vvt, can you pls chime in
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      05-24-2018, 12:58 AM   #14
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Hey, ill answer as i understand things, (i may be wrong) but maybe ill help.

1- max lift = max flow = max power on higher rpm. In the old days we used to swap camshafts to increase lift and duration to put more gas and air in the engine and gain power on a certain high rpm. So without it you will lose top end power and maybe the engine wouldnt flow enough to get to 7000rpm
2-the compression of the n52 is a bit high, the n51 is lower. Max valve travel occurs when the piston is at the bottom, it is the job of the timing belt
3- without ess, valvetronic i think doesnt have feedback of where the es is at (position of the variable lift). When u disconnect it (simulating ess breakdown) the dme knows that it has no feedback on position so it rotates the valvetronic to max lift and lock it there (making the system like an old fashioned motor)
4- same as 3
5- no ess signal i think = no feedback on position of e shaft, whithout feedback the dme will use the throttle body to know load while keeping the car on max lift.

Feel free to correct me
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      05-24-2018, 01:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaanBMW View Post
OK, I'm still unclear about all this. here's why. (Oh, and I've been only talking about disconnecting ESS not the VVT motor)
  1. max lift -> AFAIK max lift should correspond to max opening of the valves. if so, why is this a must ? or is it just better (for like better cylinder filling) ? either way, why ?
  2. max, min, or in-between lift -> since these are gas engines with relatively low compression ratios, I would think any valve lift should work. meaning than even at max valve travel there should no danger of the piston hitting the valve in fully open position. is this accurate ?
  3. since this is just a short-term test, and assuming 2 above is accurate, why would it matter if when I disconnect ESS my vvt motor had eccentric shaft in max valve lift, or min lift, or in-between lift ?
  4. is the disconnecting the ESS even in fact disabling the VVT motor ? again all is working on my car, what I want is to disable the VVT on the car in order to troubleshoot, and all I seem to read is that disconnecting ESS will do this but I'm still unsure if that's true
  5. is all this maybe not related to any of the above, and possibly to something else ? like say (and these are just my speculations) with the DME accepting a non-working ESS only upon seeing the eccentric shaft in max valve lift ?
tuners or people with a better understanding of the relationships involved in vvt, can you pls chime in
The ESS IS the VVT motor. It is integrated. Unplugging ESS is the same thing as unplugging the VVT motor that drives the gear that turns the eccentric shaft. Only in the case of a failed sensor can the DME still rotate actuate the valvtronic motor to set the eccentric shaft to max lift. There would be different fault codes in that case compared to what you get when you unplug power from the entire unit lol
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      06-18-2018, 08:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias_E90 View Post
Hey, ill answer as i understand things, (i may be wrong) but maybe ill help. [snip]
Yes, that is what I was thinking / describing too. But I'm still afraid to be the guinea pig until I find a bit more assurances from others that have more or first hand experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
The ESS IS the VVT motor. It is integrated. Unplugging ESS is the same thing as unplugging the VVT motor that drives the gear that turns the eccentric shaft. Only in the case of a failed sensor can the DME still rotate actuate the valvtronic motor to set the eccentric shaft to max lift. There would be different fault codes in that case compared to what you get when you unplug power from the entire unit lol
I'm not sure you understand the VVT system. The motor is just actuating the eccentric shaft per the ECU instructions, with the ESS sensing the position it's in. They are physically and functionally different parts, and they are part of the VVT system.
________________________________________

Back to my question - which way is it ok to try and disable the VVT system, which right now is my #1 suspect in driveability issues in hot conditions ?

Initially it sounded like it would be disconnecting the ESS, then some suggested disconnecting the VVT motor (both are fully functional on the car, no codes). And if any them would do it, what are the consequences ? I'm afraid of doing any damage or other long-term problems to the car/engine. Deleting error codes is not a problem, have INPA.

Somebody has to know and not just speculate like I and others seem to be doing here... (which - don't get me wrong - I do appreciate )
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      06-19-2018, 11:34 AM   #17
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I'm going to try to clear things up.

Firstly the N52 uses variable Valve lift (VVL or Valvtronic) for load control (throttle). VVL is the variable Valve Timing, (vanos).

The Eccentric cam motor controls the valve lift by rotating the eccentric cam.

The engine can operate at any normal RPM with maximum valve lift 9.7mm,

BMW built a fail safe system into the VVL by adding a program that, when triggered drives the VVL to full lift and then controls the engine load with the throttle, just like a normal engine. In this mode engine RPM is limited to 6,500 RPM

Disconnecting the Eccentric cam sensor will probably trigger the fail safe and the eccentric cam would be driven against the stops The eccentric cam motor would be deactivated by a load limit control and the DME would assume the cam had reached max rotation producing 9.7mm lift.

Test by Pulling the plug on the sensor and turning on the ignition, you should hear the VVL motor running to a stop. Plug in the sensor and check the eccentric cam location via INPA. Should be something like 174.5-180 degrees Unplug the sensor, start the car and go for a drive.

You should be able to hear different sounds made by the intake system. Blip the throttle and you will hear the air rush past the throttle plate as it opens.
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      06-20-2018, 10:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
[colors added]

I'm going to try to clear things up.

Firstly the N52 uses variable Valve lift (VVL or Valvtronic) for load control (throttle). VVL is the variable Valve Timing, (vanos).

The Eccentric cam motor controls the valve lift by rotating the eccentric cam.

The engine can operate at any normal RPM with maximum valve lift 9.7mm,

BMW built a fail safe system into the VVL by adding a program that, when triggered drives the VVL to full lift and then controls the engine load with the throttle, just like a normal engine. In this mode engine RPM is limited to 6,500 RPM

Disconnecting the Eccentric cam sensor will probably trigger the fail safe and the eccentric cam would be driven against the stops The eccentric cam motor would be deactivated by a load limit control and the DME would assume the cam had reached max rotation producing 9.7mm lift.

Test by Pulling the plug on the sensor and turning on the ignition, you should hear the VVL motor running to a stop. Plug in the sensor and check the eccentric cam location via INPA. Should be something like 174.5-180 degrees Unplug the sensor, start the car and go for a drive.

You should be able to hear different sounds made by the intake system. Blip the throttle and you will hear the air rush past the throttle plate as it opens.
Great, this is v helpful !

To make sure the 2nd para should read like this ?
Firstly the N52 uses variable Valve lift (VVL) for load control (throttle). VVT is the variable Valve Timing, (vanos).
i.e. there is a VVL and a VVT and only the VVL is involved in simulating throttle for cylinder filling purposes, and would be possible to disable via the motor or the ESS. Both these VVL and VVT are part of the Valvetronic, for which I think most posts - incl. mine - are using the VVT moniker, which is technically incorrect (VVT is just the timing component of the Valvetronic).

From what your are describing here, it sounds like disconnecting the ESS is the way to go to disable at least part of the Valvetronic, i.e. the VVL system. But the VVT would still be active. I insist due to that "probably" you had in there

Well, that would still be good progress. Is there is a safe way to disable the VVT ? obviously you can disconnect the Vanos but that is really messing up operation AFAIK.
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      06-21-2018, 11:35 AM   #19
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I think you have got a handle on this now, however Valvetronic and Vanos are two separate systems. My N54 powered current car has Vanos but no Valvetronic.

I've run my N52 with the Valvtronic disabled. Not intentionally, I was pushing the limits with the tune parameters and the system would drop into fail safe mode. Dropping into fail safe actually pretty seamless and it's hard to notice that the VVL stopped working.

Vanos disable, That's a different story. I'm not sure the default position for the Camshafts is safe for all operating engine speeds. That's an experiment that I would not do, The car would run like crap anyways.

I still don't really understand what you are trying to achieve by disabling the Valvtronic. It's unlikely that this system is the cause of any problem that's difficult to diagnose. I can guarantee that the eccentric cam is going to move to the position commanded or the DME will go to fail safe. The position sensor is actually two sensors that must agree with each other or it faults out. BMW wanted to be really sure that the engine had some form of fail safe throttle control. Runaway cars are big problems for the liability teams, just ask Lexus.

Vanos, on the other hand has given owners some grief. But I strongly believe proper logging with freely available tools can easily show sticking Vanos control valves for plugged filters. INPA and Test0 are really good tools.
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      07-07-2018, 11:42 AM   #20
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Yes sorry I was just copying other people's words...

Variable valve lift is controlled by the eccentric shaft which is driven by the valvetronic motor. The valvetronic motor (eccentric shaft actuator) is integrated with the eccentric shaft sensor (ess). If you unpllug the valvetronic motor you are also unplugging the ess. The eccentric shaft will need to be manually rotated to max valve lift and then airflow will be controlled by the throttle plate via the aforementioned failsafes... You can't just unplug the valvetronic motor without manually rotating the eccentric shaft to max valve lift. If you want to "test" you need to drill a hole through the valve cover and ensure the eccentric shaft is at max lift. Idle tuning genrally needs a lot of lift and overlap unless you've done custom mapping.

Vvt (timing) is controlled by vanos solenoids which you can't just unplug or disable either. They are controlled by oil pressure, no? It's a separate system that wouldnt be discussed in this thread. You can't just disable the cam shafts in your car lol.

Last edited by bbnks2; 07-07-2018 at 11:57 AM..
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      08-02-2018, 11:34 PM   #21
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OK, disabled the VVL via unplugging the ESS.

Car worked fine after an initializations. Meaning while there was some power loss and change in driveabilty, no codes or nasty side effects.

The car seems to get quite a bit more thirsty with the VVT disabled, fuel economy dropped right away. Acceleration is also not as great, so is the ability to coast in (higher) gear, i.e. you need to downshift like you normally do on manuals :-)

As far as diagnosing my actual issue it made things WAYYYY worse. The issue - the rpm drops when taking out of gear, when running a/c even killing the engine at times. It did this even when cold, and MUCH more frequently.
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Last edited by DaanBMW; 08-02-2018 at 11:35 PM.. Reason: typo
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      08-07-2018, 05:13 PM   #22
hassmaschine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Yes sorry I was just copying other people's words...

Variable valve lift is controlled by the eccentric shaft which is driven by the valvetronic motor. The valvetronic motor (eccentric shaft actuator) is integrated with the eccentric shaft sensor (ess). If you unpllug the valvetronic motor you are also unplugging the ess. The eccentric shaft will need to be manually rotated to max valve lift and then airflow will be controlled by the throttle plate via the aforementioned failsafes... You can't just unplug the valvetronic motor without manually rotating the eccentric shaft to max valve lift. If you want to "test" you need to drill a hole through the valve cover and ensure the eccentric shaft is at max lift. Idle tuning genrally needs a lot of lift and overlap unless you've done custom mapping.
they are not integrated on the N52 - you can just unplug the sensor. I bet you could remove the pins for the position sensor on the integrated valvetronic motor, but it's not exactly a great long term solution.
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