Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Unbelievable
I guess the Pivot point at the top of the flap is weaker than the metal pin of e46 days...

I would prefer an evaluation from a company that didn't have a conflict of interest vested in this.

[andrey_gta]

Well remeber how G-A-S started. It was a forum effort on e46fanatics to a very noticible issue. I dont think it there is a lot of conflict of interest.

What is different about N52 is there there seems to be no early warning of the rattle @ idle. And the Disa flap is harder to take apart :S

[andrey_gta]

Symptoms video ^^^


My Analysis is that the SMALL Disa is the culprit of the engine issues. As per video the Large DISA has a Metal bolt through. Therefore the e46 solution is pretty much very simmilar- we need a new bolt through


Small DISA has more issues, it looks plastic and would require more work. We need a metal bolt through that would work with the Flap

[MarkkyyMan]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Just spoke with GAS again. Their evaluation after opening up the adjuster is that the DISA unit on the N52 is even worse from a design standpoint than the failure prone units from the M54. The good news is they feel confident that they can fix them in a permanent fashion, but the downside is that the project is quite a bit more complicated than the M54 version and likely will require people to send in their DISA units.

Either way, I'm personally on board. DISA failures on the early cars are becoming more and more common, and seeing as many of us who retrofitted our manifolds did so from early model cars, the risk is widespread. And to be clear, I don't see this as limited to '06-'07, but rather that they are simply the oldest and first to fail.

I don't think taking DISA valves out and replacing them now for preventative maintenance is asking a lot. I'd rather take them out now vs. trying to remove plastic pieces out of the cylinder head later down the road.

This solution might also push me towards a 3 stage intake manifold hmmm

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by index1489

I would prefer an evaluation from a company that didn't have a conflict of interest vested in this.

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Well remeber how G-A-S started. It was a forum effort on e46fanatics to a very noticible issue. I dont think it there is a lot of conflict of interest.

Exactly. And I am the one who went to them to ask for a solution, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan

I don't think taking DISA valves out and replacing them now for preventative maintenance is asking a lot. I'd rather take them out now vs. trying to remove plastic pieces out of the cylinder head later down the road.

This solution might also push me towards a 3 stage intake manifold hmmm

I certainly agree, but I wanted to lay this out as clearly as possible.

[TheSt|G]

Alright gents, this is the response I got back today from German Auto Solutions. Basically, if we want this to happen we have to get interest going. I realize it is early on in the issue, so no one has seen the terror of a grenaded engine yet, but from those of us who are familiar with the M54, it should be taken very seriously.

I'm considering cross posting to every N52 related forum, so if you guys have suggestions that would be great.

Andrew,



The unit I have is the larger unit and it has the plastic pin. There are superseded part numbers so I speculate that maybe the steel pin was a revision. We thought about an exchange program but I'm worried that there would be too much disparity in the condition of the flapper sealing material and some customers would complain that the unit they sent in was in better condition than the one they received back.



The next step on our part is to look at production volumes compared to the M54 engines. Since the turbo versions didn't have the DISA's I want to make sure that there will be enough demand the product. I would think that the percentages of people willing to send their DISA's in for an upgrade would be less than that of the M54 people purchasing a DIY kit.



We also have the issue of needing to dedicate a CNC machine just to machining off the covers for disassembly. Since this would hopefully be a daily requirement it would be infeasible to stop a job in a machine and change the set-up over to removing DISA covers and then change it back again. We are looking at the cost of small desktop CNC units since we would only be cutting plastic. That way it would always be ready to go. The bottom line is that we need to do a cost benefit analysis on this to make sure we can recover our initial investment in machines, tooling and fixtures and still make a profit. If you know much about German Auto Solutions you know that our goal is that every product we produce is very cost effective, is of very high quality and will hold up over time without failure. This one is going to be tight on the "very cost effective" goal.



Feel free to paste this email in its entirety on the forums.



Thanks,



Gary Geukes



German Auto Solutions

[andrey_gta]

So we can take out large DISA unit and see Pin type. And part number/age etc. Real oem and image search can do this pretty okay too sometimes

[TheSt|G]

The pin isn't the only factor. The plastic flap likes to disintegrate with age. See the M54 as we both well know. And then there is the typical BMW gasket that isn't particularly well suited for oil.

[andrey_gta]

Pelicanparts manifold swap Diy that inclides this Scary image:


http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...eplacement.htm

[andrey_gta]

Yes the e46 kit includes a new Flap and O rings

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Pelicanparts manifold swap Diy that inclides this Scary image:


http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...eplacement.htm

FFS that is awful.

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Yes the e46 kit includes a new Flap and O rings

And better o-rings at that. BMW is notoriously terrible at making an oil proof o-ring.

[MarkkyyMan]

Hopefully they decide to do this.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan

Hopefully they decide to do this.

Agreed. Expressed interest on behalf of the forum certainly helps.

[manutdas11]

I hope this issue is resolved.
I'm starting to get a noise from the engine now that I believe may be the lifters or the DISA flaps. I don't want to end up with another blown engine.

[mlifxs]

for someone who hasn't done the 3 stage, but considering it, wouldn't it make sense to:

a. Buy the DISA's new?
b. Replace them as a maintenance item at some interval, say 100k?

I would think there is some reasonable strategy given how many cars are out there with 3 stage.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

for someone who hasn't done the 3 stage, but considering it, wouldn't it make sense to:

a. Buy the DISA's new?
b. Replace them as a maintenance item at some interval, say 100k?

I would think there is some reasonable strategy given how many cars are out there with 3 stage.

Still replacing them with a failure prone design, at a cost many times greater than actually fixing them.

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Still replacing them with a failure prone design, at a cost many times greater than actually fixing them.

I agree, and it shouldn't be this way. Hope you guys can get your longer term solution.

That said, the DISAs are $500-600 for both, new. I might go for it if I can find a real cheap deal on the manifold only. Our cars have plenty of other things that go bad, this one just has potentially severe consequences.

[manutdas11]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

I agree, and it shouldn't be this way. Hope you guys can get your longer term solution.

That said, the DISAs are $500-600 for both, new. I might go for it if I can find a real cheap deal on the manifold only. Our cars have plenty of other things that go bad, this one just has potentially severe consequences.

They're about $430ish each at the stealership. Did you find them cheaper somewhere? I have no luck finding them separate. All places only do the whole intake manifold.

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by manutdas11

They're about $430ish each at the stealership. Did you find them cheaper somewhere? I have no luck finding them separate. All places only do the whole intake manifold.

yes here's a couple examples just by simply googling the part numbers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1060PF7039
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/1161...FQto7AodCWUAkQ

both turner motor sports and getbmwparts have them for 300 or less as well.

I'm thinking a junk yard may have a deal on the manifold, on its own...if yes, then buy the DISAs new. There have been "manifolds only" sold on the forum as well.

not the cheapest way to go, but maybe worth it if more failures occur.

edit: there are good prices out there on Ebay as well, from Husker Auto Group

[smithf80]

would an 07 328xi N51 have a DISA valve?

[manutdas11]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

yes here's a couple examples just by simply googling the part numbers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1060PF7039
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/1161...FQto7AodCWUAkQ

both turner motor sports and getbmwparts have them for 300 or less as well.

I'm thinking a junk yard may have a deal on the manifold, on its own...if yes, then buy the DISAs new. There have been "manifolds only" sold on the forum as well.

not the cheapest way to go, but maybe worth it if more failures occur.

edit: there are good prices out there on Ebay as well, from Husker Auto Group

Great! Thanks for the info. I had no idea what the part number was.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by smithe90

would an 07 328xi N51 have a DISA valve?

Yes, all N51s have the DISA manifold stock to compensate for their emissions control reduced power.