[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

And true to form you resort to personal attacks which I can't for the life of me figure out why. Being that you're in Illinois, I can only surmise that you spent too much time in the outback yourself and felt cozy U.S of A was more palatable.

The differences between us and australians doesn't just end with ATF fluid. You should try driving their cars. Pontiac G8/GTO couldn't save US GM from taking a shit. We americans aren't bad people. Its just some "ignorants" among us, bringing us down.

Originally Posted by Socom

In any case, I'm NOT trying to prove that you're wrong. I'm just trying to push through the hype.

I'm just trying to help people realize the value of common sense maintenance.

Originally Posted by Socom

Oh and something I thought about regarding your call to Shell in Houston. They may indeed make 1375.4 but maybe it's exported. What would you like me to do when one of the product experts says "It's an old fluid made for ZF, not Ford or Mercon SP, and no longer manufactured in US"??

It could be exported, then re-imported. These days distance is no obstacle for global buisness.

[jimk]

I'm sold, really! The evidence presented here is so overwhelming that I know that my $10K tranny will live a long life using Ford Mercon SP ATF. From now on, I'll meticulously use nothing but Ford Mercon SP in Turkeybaster115's tranny.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by jimk

I'm sold, really! The evidence presented here is so overwhelming that I know that my $10K tranny will live a long life using Ford Mercon SP ATF. From now on, I'll meticulously use nothing but Ford Mercon SP in Turkeybaster115's tranny.

Don't ever change your trans fluid, guy, its a lifetime fill!!

[F32Fleet]

Hey, I have a present for you. Here is the MSDS for Shell M-1375.4 (aka Shell ATF SP Fluid).

Go here: http://hazard.com/msds/mf/equilon/shell
Search for ATF M-1375.4 and you'll see the product code is 53174 or MSDS #401519E

Go here:http://www.equivashellmsds.com/
Search product code 53174 or MSDS code 401519E and voila Mercon SP

Enjoy.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

Hey, I have a present for you. Here is the MSDS for Shell M-1375.4 (aka Shell ATF SP Fluid).

Yes, I've seen that fluid. One question, how come its specification is vastly different from LG6? Nothing matches, KV 40/100, flash point, pour point, Viscosity Index, etc! Its not M-1375.4! They just wrote that in. I originally thought it was shell M-1375.4, while I was doing my research, but there just isn't enough proof that it is. Along the way, I also thought shell donax TX, was LG6 also. Neither of these two fluids are LG6. THEY ARE EVEN BOTH RED IN COLOR!

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Yes, I've seen that fluid. One question, how come its specification is vastly different from LG6? Nothing matches, KV 40/100, flash point, pour point, Viscosity Index, etc! Its not M-1375.4! They just wrote that in. I originally thought it was shell M-1375.4, while I was doing my research, but there just isn't enough proof that it is. Along the way, I also thought shell donax TX, was LG6 also. Neither of these two fluids are LG6. THEY ARE EVEN BOTH RED IN COLOR!

So you're saying the Shell MSDS website is wrong?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Yes, I've seen that fluid. One question, how come its specification is vastly different from LG6? Nothing matches, KV 40/100, flash point, pour point, Viscosity Index, etc! Its not M-1375.4! They just wrote that in. I originally thought it was shell M-1375.4, while I was doing my research, but there just isn't enough proof that it is. Along the way, I also thought shell donax TX, was LG6 also. Neither of these two fluids are LG6. THEY ARE EVEN BOTH RED IN COLOR!

So you're saying the Shell MSDS website is wrong?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Yes, I've seen that fluid. One question, how come its specification is vastly different from LG6? Nothing matches, KV 40/100, flash point, pour point, Viscosity Index, etc! Its not M-1375.4! They just wrote that in. I originally thought it was shell M-1375.4, while I was doing my research, but there just isn't enough proof that it is. Along the way, I also thought shell donax TX, was LG6 also. Neither of these two fluids are LG6. THEY ARE EVEN BOTH RED IN COLOR!

Ok so what you're saying is that Shell has substituted the MSDS# & Product# for M-1375.4 with Shell ATF SP Fluid?

The MSDS of Mercon SP, LG6 and this fluid are all different in some respect.

Attributes Mercon SP and Shell ATF SP have in common but not with LG6:
#1 Flash points
#2 Vapor pressure
#3 Specific Gravity (off by .01)

Attributes Mercon SP has in common with LG6 and not Shell ATF SP:
#1 KV


http://www.tsgparts.net/images/pdf/Lifeguardfluid6.pdf
http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...us175325us.pdf

[Turkeybaster115]

whats up with the double posts?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

whats up with the double posts?

board is acting up on me. double posting. I tried to delete one.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

Ok so what you're saying is that Shell has substituted the MSDS# & Product# for M-1375.4 with Shell ATF SP Fluid?

read what I wrote. It shouldn't be confusing. You tell me, what I wrote.

Originally Posted by Socom

The MSDS of Mercon SP, LG6 and this fluid are all different in some respect.

Attributes Mercon SP and Shell ATF SP have in common but not with LG6:
#1 Flash points
#2 Vapor pressure
#3 Specific Gravity (off by .01)

Chemical Identity

SHELL ATF SP:
CAS#: 64742-55-8 60.00 - 100.00 %
CAS#: 64742-52-5 10.00 - 30.00 %

MERCON SP
CAS#: 64742-54-7 60.00 - 100.00 %
CAS#: 64742-52-5 1-5 %

Shell ATF SP's flash point is 3XGreater than Mercon SP, and as for specific gravity, if you really think that .01 is nothing, then you should know that:

1. Specific gravity identifies a fluid
2. Kinematic viscosity is absolute viscosity/specific gravity (their Kinematic viscosity is not the same at any temperature is it? So much for .01 not being a big deal to the ignorant)

Originally Posted by Socom

Attributes Mercon SP has in common with LG6 and not Shell ATF SP:
#1 KV
http://www.tsgparts.net/images/pdf/Lifeguardfluid6.pdf
http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...us175325us.pdf

#2 Color
#3 Hazardous Decomposition products

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

whats up with the double posts?

Jacked up website.

[F32Fleet]

Apologies..I was thinking of auto-ignition temps. Still the flash points between Mercon SP and LG6 are not the same. (Mercon 218C vs 200C LG6). Why is that? Is that because flash points were tested differently? Why is vapor pressure different as well?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

Apologies..I was thinking of auto-ignition temps. Still the flash points between Mercon SP and LG6 are not the same. (Mercon 218C vs 200C LG6). Why is that? Is that because flash points were tested differently? Why is vapor pressure different as well?

The website was acting up! At least it gave us a chance to go do something else with our time! The flash Points for Pentosin ATF 1 (MSDS), and LG5 (MSDS), aren't written as the same either (210C vs 220C), but we know both fluids are the same. Same testing methods, different labs, different people testing.

I'm happy now that people have a cheaper alternative to purchase OEM trans fluid.

[F32Fleet]

Ok I'm convienced. I spoke with the guys from lubeandtune.com.au
and confirmed that the list of fluids in ASP15 are infact all of the SAME.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

Ok I'm convienced. I spoke with the guys from lubeandtune.com.au
and confirmed that the list of fluids in ASP15 are infact all of the SAME.

In the future, try to be less confrontational. Now to bring you up to speed with what I currently think:

The ABSOLUTE best trans fluid for the high torque 6hp19/26 trannys is actually Castrol Transmax Z! Its really the only trans fluid that I have confirmed to be synthetic based (MSDS), and if you do a search, for it, you'll find It is approved for Long drain intervals in buss transmissions TE ML 11B/14C. I'm having a hard time getting a hold of it, because it is made in new zealand/australia. This will basically be my next fill, its either this or Royal purple ATF. That's the only other transfluid I've found with close enough specs to TE ML 11B thats synthetic based (MSDS).

will you also concede defeat on BMW LL04 oils in petrol engines, or is that hoping for too much?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

In the future, try to be less confrontational. Now to bring you up to speed with what I currently think:

The ABSOLUTE best trans fluid for the high torque 6hp19/26 trannys is actually Castrol Transmax Z! Its really the only trans fluid that I have confirmed to be synthetic based (MSDS), and if you do a search, for it, you'll find It is approved for Long drain intervals in buss transmissions TE ML 11B/14C. I'm having a hard time getting a hold of it, because it is made in new zealand/australia. This will basically be my next fill, its either this or Royal purple ATF. That's the only other transfluid I've found with close enough specs to TE ML 11B thats synthetic based (MSDS).

will you also concede defeat on BMW LL04 oils in petrol engines, or is that hoping for too much?

I'm not trying to be confrotational, just suspicous.

As for LL04 oils until BMW says they're ok to use in gasser BMW's I won't change my position. Now, if a oil manufacturer can provide a LL04 oil which has the same level of additives as a LL01 oil to handle the additional acids from using gas with 10 % ethanol I'm ok with that. The literature is old on LL04, but BMW only recommends LL04 oils for gasser cars in about 4 european countries. I haven't read anything from them which updates that position. Do the new 5/7 series owners use LL04 or still LL01?

As for Castrol Transmax Z ATF. Does it have the same viscosity and friction modifiers as LG6? Now you dropped Pento ATF1 in @ 40k miles so if I'm correct you have another 20-30k miles to go before another change. I'd bet the Castrol product will eventually show up in the US by then.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

As for LL04 oils until BMW says they're ok to use in gasser BMW's I won't change my position. Now, if a oil manufacturer can provide a LL04 oil which has the same level of additives as a LL01 oil to handle the additional acids from using gas with 10% ethanol I'm ok with that. The literature is old on LL04, but BMW only recommends LL04 oils for gasser cars in about 4 european countries. I haven't read anything from them which updates that position..

The literature is non existent as to the actual reason why they stated their position. So one could speculate as to anything from ethanol, to castrol LL04 product not being available in US markets (marketing/Profits), since my oil cap boldly states: "BMW recommends castrol". I have noted your concerns, but from what I have seen in my engine, Total 5W30 Ineo MC3, has lasted the longest so far, and shown the most superior performance.

Originally Posted by Socom

As for Castrol Transmax Z ATF. Does it have the same viscosity and friction modifiers as LG6?.

the low viscosity of Mercon SP isn't ideal for anything other than minimal commuting. It has a much viscosity specs to handle the high heat of ZF's bus transmissions, as well as the high torque 6hp applications. The friction modifiers present in Mercon SP, are for imporved gas milage. That is of little concern to me since, my goal is light track duty, and transmission longevity.

Originally Posted by Socom

Now you dropped Pento ATF1 in @ 40k miles so if I'm correct you have another 20-30k miles to go before another change. I'd bet the Castrol product will eventually show up in the US by then.

I'm currently in contact with stores in OZ, trying to see if they will ship to the US. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

The literature is non existent as to the actual reason why they stated their position. So one could speculate as to anything from ethanol, to castrol LL04 product not being available in US markets (marketing/Profits), since my oil cap boldly states: "BMW recommends castrol". I have noted your concerns, but from what I have seen in my engine, Total 5W30 Ineo MC3, has lasted the longest so far, and shown the most superior performance. .

Actually the literature from BMWNA is clear. They do not list an LL04 oils for gasser BMW's in the US. It's only LL01 of which there are a multitude of options outside Castrol.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008/07/09...commendations/

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ine_5_2009.png (BMW TIS see footnote #2)

If you ask Mobil1 they will say "Use 0w-40 instead of ESP 5w-30 for your 335i".

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

Actually the literature from BMWNA is clear. They do not list an LL04 oils for gasser BMW's in the US. It's only LL01 of which there are a multitude of options outside Castrol.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008/07/09...commendations/"

Well first of all it looks like they are saying, its sulphur levels, that are the issue with LL04, and US gas, not Ethanol! Secondly, when it talks about consistency, they are refering to consistency across all brands of gasoline. If one sticks to brands of gas by european companys, this shouldn't be a problem. I only use Shell, or BP gasoline, so this whole issue of consistency shouldn't be a problem. For folks who like to just buy whatever is cheapest, there could be a problem.

Originally Posted by Socom

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ine_5_2009.png (BMW TIS see footnote #2)

If you ask Mobil1 they will say "Use 0w-40 instead of ESP 5w-30 for your 335i".

I cannot open that link, as it is blocked on the computer I am using. You should contact Mobil 1 about their websites endorsement of ESP 5W-30, as their statement may have been made with the assumption, that the consumer will regularly buy US Mobil gasoline, which is sulphur consistent.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Well first of all it looks like they are saying, its sulphur levels, that are the issue with LL04, and US gas, not Ethanol! Secondly, when it talks about consistency, they are refering to consistency across all brands of gasoline. If one sticks to brands of gas by european companys, this shouldn't be a problem. I only use Shell, or BP gasoline, so this whole issue of consistency shouldn't be a problem. For folks who like to just buy whatever is cheapest, there could be a problem.




I cannot open that link, as it is blocked on the computer I am using. You should contact Mobil 1 about their websites endorsement of ESP 5W-30, as their statement may have been made with the assumption, that the consumer will regularly buy US Mobil gasoline, which is sulphur consistent.

In any case the ESP oils are also rated for VW/MB and others and I do not know their stance on using in gassers. Just go to Mobil1 website and ask the question. It has been asked before but they rotate the questions so it's no longer posted.

Hell you can go to BMWNA website.

Another link from Motul: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/MOTUL...7-%28GB%29.pdf

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

In any case the ESP oils are also rated for VW/MB and others and I do not know their stance on using in gassers. Just go to Mobil1 website and ask the question. It has been asked before but they rotate the questions so it's no longer posted.

Hell you can go to BMWNA website.

Another link from Motul: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/MOTUL...7-%28GB%29.pdf

I've seen the motul link in the past. I'm not saying your pesismism is unfounded, either. VW/Audi, I know does not have this restriction on LL04, as I am also using it in my '07 3.2 A6, as I have read nothing about this from Audi. I also haven't seen nothing about this from mercedes. If none of these other european auto makers, don't post anything about this, then BMW is clearly just trying to C**kblock the market, for castrol.