[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

The E90 has been a tank so far.

Same here, didnt have a breakdown until about 115k when the valvetronic motor crapped out. Coolant system has been great though. Only one failure while working on it, the vent hose.

I thought about changing out all of the hoses but the parts guys said it was a waste as hoses dont fail catastrophically like they used to

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've owned BMWs for 30 years and total combined miles at almost 900,000 on 4 cars, so I think I'm pretty familiar with long term, high mileage BMW ownership. The fact that you can own a 20- year old BMW that was a nitche car and didn't sell in any great market numbers (my wife's Z3), and still get almost any part for it as OE from the manufacturer using an on line resource like RealOEM.com is a testament to how BMW DOES care about downstream post new-sale and off-lease owners.

For example, in 2017 we took the 20-year old Z3 on a road trip out to the Rockies and back from the East Coast. Going through the car in prep for the trip, I bought a few spare, plastic cooling system parts, that if they failed, would take a week to source. So I was able to get OE coolant hose bibs that bolt onto the block and cylinderhead, real obscure parts for the M44, (which wasn't used in a great many cars in the US market) from my local dealership prior to the road trip. I owned an E30 for 18 years and never had a problem getting any part for it through BMW. Your business model is wrong and your statement is not true. Auto parts are sourced on an open world supplier market, BMW doesn't use any cheaper or more expensive parts than any other manufacturer.

i'm not wrong...there plenty of Automotive Corporate business executives and project managers talk about it all the time in their interviews. You can read through them yourself.

There different quality parts, there different grades of plastics, vinyls, leathers and metals they obtain through suppliers.

For the interior for example they us higher quality plastics in areas thats visible to the customer or areas where the customer would touch on a daily basis, but use lower quality plastics for lower trim pieces thats not visible to the customer or isn't touched often by the customer to save money.

Every auto maker admits this, BMW is no different.

[srey]

Originally Posted by tilua

Do you mind sharing where you get those aluminum parts?

You can get it from Amazon or Ebay. It's the fitting that ALWAYS breaks whenever you remove it. Well worth the $17-25 cost.

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Repl...oolant+fitting

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-1153754...-LVe:rk:2:pf:0

[Pladi]

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

Because my 200k Mazda and 150k Elantra have had ZERO such issues. Luck ? I don't think so. They are just not in the business of making money in parts.. different business philosophy.

Yet most e90s won't make it past 50k

My winter beater Mazda 3 in fact has suspension components replaced and motor mounts in 200k. That's it. Does not leak anywhere. Rusted to hell though. Known issue I won't ever deny.

[srey]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

Because my 200k Mazda and 150k Elantra have had ZERO such issues. Luck ? I don't think so. They are just not in the business of making money in parts.. different business philosophy.

Yet most e90s won't make it past 50k

My winter beater Mazda 3 in fact has suspension components replaced and motor mounts in 200k. That's it. Does not leak anywhere. Rusted to hell though. Known issue I won't ever deny.

What's the operating temperature of your Mazda 3? The NA 2.0-2.3 port injection 4 banger with a belt-driven water pump and 144-155 hp is a much milder operating environment than the turbo 3.0 direct injected inline 6 with an electric water pump and 300 hp in your 335xi. I'm not trying to be a fan boy, but you have to admit it's not an apples to apples comparison. That said, does BMW have a history of poor cooling systems? Yes. Even in the less harsh engine environments of the e39's, e46's, etc. it's been an issue. I just bring up that you're not comparing apples to apples between your Mazda and your BMW.

If you want 300+ hp and bulletproof reliability you typically need NA with higher displacement. The best compromise might be the 3.5-3.7 liter VQ motor from Nissan, or the 3.5 liter 2GR motor from Toyota (typically not a 300 hp motor). Otherwise you're looking at a V8.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

Because my 200k Mazda and 150k Elantra have had ZERO such issues. Luck ? I don't think so. They are just not in the business of making money in parts.. different business philosophy.

Yet most e90s won't make it past 50k

My winter beater Mazda 3 in fact has suspension components replaced and motor mounts in 200k. That's it. Does not leak anywhere. Rusted to hell though. Known issue I won't ever deny.

140K on all the factory parts on mine.
you had efthreeoh up there say he did them at 221 just because, and they were still OK.
so there yo ugo, two e90's that made it to your target mileages.

and the 2003 mazda 6 I'm familiar with leaks oil into the spark plug wells copiously, and the power steering pressure line just broke off. So I get to do that this weekend. it's a terrible design that breaks the pipe off of the banjo fitting it's welded too.

I've never had a power steering line simply break, ever, and I've owned and driven many rust belt beater with a heater (sometimes no heater) shitboxes.
So every manufacturer has issues that make it through engineering for one reason or another. Whether it's oversight, cost or simply no fucks.

It's the golden age of performance. Is it soooo bad that we have to deal with some plastic fittings so we can have 100hp/l engines made out of aluminum and magnesium?

[vilord]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

160K on all original components in my 2007, 170K on all original parts in the 2010.

And I haven't been nice to the 2007. It has had 3 minor front-end collisions (two while I wasn't driving), as well as a 2" tree branch that impaled the front of it and crushed the steering cooler against the AC condensor and radiator. That the radiator hasn't leaked is quite a surprise, but it is still going strong!

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

i'm not wrong...there plenty of Automotive Corporate business executives and project managers talk about it all the time in their interviews. You can read through them yourself.

There different quality parts, there different grades of plastics, vinyls, leathers and metals they obtain through suppliers.

For the interior for example they us higher quality plastics in areas thats visible to the customer or areas where the customer would touch on a daily basis, but use lower quality plastics for lower trim pieces thats not visible to the customer or isn't touched often by the customer to save money.

Every auto maker admits this, BMW is no different.

You make that sound like a bad thing. Being smart where to put money is good for business. Business with no profit, well the company won't last for long. BMW needs to contend with high labor rates in Germany, its not easy for them to outsource work on lay off workers, there are laws against it. And as someone else pointed out, BMW is really a small manufacturer compared to the large volume big boys which greatly affects profit. They can't go pricing their cars like Ferrari, their competition like Audi can leverage their shared designs / tooling with VW.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

Because my 200k Mazda and 150k Elantra have had ZERO such issues. Luck ? I don't think so. They are just not in the business of making money in parts.. different business philosophy.

Yet most e90s won't make it past 50k

My winter beater Mazda 3 in fact has suspension components replaced and motor mounts in 200k. That's it. Does not leak anywhere. Rusted to hell though. Known issue I won't ever deny.

Yes. The only thing I have replaced was my pump at 130k miles (the thermostat is original too). I haven't replaced anything else. I should be at 160k sometime this year.

I don't know about "most". People generally are only going to come here and post about their problems..

Originally Posted by srey

You can get it from Amazon or Ebay. It's the fitting that ALWAYS breaks whenever you remove it. Well worth the $17-25 cost.

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Repl...oolant+fitting

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-1153754...-LVe:rk:2:pf:0

mine didn't break, but I think I'll will get one of those for my engine build.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

Because my 200k Mazda and 150k Elantra have had ZERO such issues. Luck ? I don't think so. They are just not in the business of making money in parts.. different business philosophy.

Yet most e90s won't make it past 50k

My winter beater Mazda 3 in fact has suspension components replaced and motor mounts in 200k. That's it. Does not leak anywhere. Rusted to hell though. Known issue I won't ever deny.

I can. Twice.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

You make that sound like a bad thing. Being smart where to put money is good for business. Business with no profit, well the company won't last for long. BMW needs to contend with high labor rates in Germany, its not easy for them to outsource work on lay off workers, there are laws against it. And as someone else pointed out, BMW is really a small manufacturer compared to the large volume big boys which greatly affects profit. They can't go pricing their cars like Ferrari, their competition like Audi can leverage their shared designs / tooling with VW.

I never said it was a bad thing...if you read my previous posts its a philsophy and business decision by BMW. I was the one that pointed out that their a small manufacturer compared to a Nissan, Toyota, VW group.

Everything is built to a price point even BMWs. Its a global economy, most manufacturers have access to the same suppliers. BMW can easily make a car thats as reliable as any lexus but thats not what they decided to focus on.

BMWs focus is on driving dynamics and advanced technology.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

I never said it was a bad thing...if you read my previous posts its a philsophy and business decision by BMW. I was the one that pointed out that their a small manufacturer compared to a Nissan, Toyota, VW group.

Everything is built to a price point even BMWs. Its a global economy, most manufacturers have access to the same suppliers. BMW can easily make a car thats as reliable as any lexus but thats not what they decided to focus on.

BMWs focus is on driving dynamics and advanced technology.

BMWs have never been categorized as "reliable". The entire existence of Lexus, Acura, and Infinity is based on that premise. The Japanese manufacturers during the fantastic US economy of the 1980's decided to build a less expensive, more reliable luxury brand than the Germans, namely Mercedes and BMW. Audi back then was a complete joke regarding reliability.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by srey

What's the operating temperature of your Mazda 3? The NA 2.0-2.3 port injection 4 banger with a belt-driven water pump and 144-155 hp is a much milder operating environment than the turbo 3.0 direct injected inline 6 with an electric water pump and 300 hp in your 335xi. I'm not trying to be a fan boy, but you have to admit it's not an apples to apples comparison. That said, does BMW have a history of poor cooling systems? Yes. Even in the less harsh engine environments of the e39's, e46's, etc. it's been an issue. I just bring up that you're not comparing apples to apples between your Mazda and your BMW.

If you want 300+ hp and bulletproof reliability you typically need NA with higher displacement. The best compromise might be the 3.5-3.7 liter VQ motor from Nissan, or the 3.5 liter 2GR motor from Toyota (typically not a 300 hp motor). Otherwise you're looking at a V8.

you can make a comparison with a 2jz, or rb26..there turbo 6 cylinder cars that makes 300hp, that reliable. But BMW invested in new tech with DI, and piezo injectors on the N54 for more hp and better mpg, instead of the more reliable but less efficient port injection and pi injectors.

Back to what i said, advanced tech vs reliable tech philsophies.

[Efthreeoh]

If BMW didn't spend engineering resources on stupid Rubics Cube coolant hose connectors, they could make the cooling system more reliable or at least less expensive...

[hassmaschine]

TBH I don't mind the connectors. They are definitely more complicated than needed, but they work fine and I don't find releasing or placing them difficult. The vac line hose connectors are horrid though. I just avoid touching them if possible..

[tilua]

Originally Posted by srey

You can get it from Amazon or Ebay. It's the fitting that ALWAYS breaks whenever you remove it. Well worth the $17-25 cost.

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Repl...oolant+fitting

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-1153754...-LVe:rk:2:pf:0

Last time this piece broke and spew coolant everywhere, it cost me about $90 dollars to replace since it came with the rubber hose in one piece. I could have gotten this and reuse the rubber hose as it looked fine. Saving $ and get a better product

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

You make that sound like a bad thing. Being smart where to put money is good for business. Business with no profit, well the company won't last for long. BMW needs to contend with high labor rates in Germany, its not easy for them to outsource work on lay off workers, there are laws against it. And as someone else pointed out, BMW is really a small manufacturer compared to the large volume big boys which greatly affects profit. They can't go pricing their cars like Ferrari, their competition like Audi can leverage their shared designs / tooling with VW.

I think this is why you see more and more X vehicles pushed. Those are made in the US since they're not a domestic euro car, and I'm sure they make more money on them than with a euro built car sold in NA.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If BMW didn't spend engineering resources on stupid Rubics Cube coolant hose connectors, they could make the cooling system more reliable or at least less expensive...

but again, go back to the labor issue. Sometimes it's cheaper to spend more money on a fancy connector than it is to pay someone to assemble it.
Domestic manufacturers are just now getting to this point as well. Look under a modern for ecoboost? Tons of stuff that looks like BMW parts in there.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

TBH I don't mind the connectors. They are definitely more complicated than needed, but they work fine and I don't find releasing or placing them difficult. The vac line hose connectors are horrid though. I just avoid touching them if possible..

those things are the debil.
my PCV is currently a 3/4 hose clamped to the cut off quick connects.
I guess we'll see what the dealer has to say about that on my PCV heater recall tomorrow.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by nsjames

but again, go back to the labor issue. Sometimes it's cheaper to spend more money on a fancy connector than it is to pay someone to assemble it.
Domestic manufacturers are just now getting to this point as well. Look under a modern for ecoboost? Tons of stuff that looks like BMW parts in there.
.

I have a degree in manufacturing engineering, no longer practice however. Unless most of the connections are made by robots in a sub-assembly phase, I can't see the labor savings. The design doesn't get rid of the hose clamp. A spring clamp is just as effective speed-wise.

Those precision injection molded are expensive parts to make. Keep in mind it's times 2 per connection.

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

On the E46, you had failing radiators, pumps, hoses and expansion tanks, badly designed PCV, cracked subframes, melting tailights, constantly failing window regulators, bad vanos, broken DISA flaps, I could go on... - most E90s never have those problems.

Reading around these forums, it seems like the E90 suffers from those same common problems the E46 suffered. There are lots of posts about failing radiators, thermostats, water pumps, hoses and expansion tanks, failed PCVs, melting taillights, failing window regulators, broken DISA flaps. I'd also add door lock actuators, another overly complicated plastic part. At least with the E90 it appears that the subframe issues were fixed and as far as I know VANOS is pretty reliable. I'd also say that despite these 'common problems' they typically don't appear until much later in their lifetime, past the 100K mile mark, and once replaced (sometimes with updated designs/materials) will easily last another 100K miles or more.

I've driven my car for the last 5 years with only extremely minor repairs - the most expensive maintenance by far was the tires.

I still consider those issues very minor and relatively inexpensive especially if you do the work yourself.

The water pump is the most expensive part. I have replaced water pumps on every car I've ever owned just as preventative maintenance (though I can't argue against the fact that belt driven pumps are a heck of a lot cheaper.)

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMWs have never been categorized as "reliable". The entire existence of Lexus, Acura, and Infinity is based on that premise. The Japanese manufacturers during the fantastic US economy of the 1980's decided to build a less expensive, more reliable luxury brand than the Germans, namely Mercedes and BMW. Audi back then was a complete joke regarding reliability.

I guess not much has changed. I see a lot of Audis where I live, but they're all less than five years old. I often wonder where they all end up when the leases are over.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have a degree in manufacturing engineering, no longer practice however. Unless most of the connections are made by robots in a sub-assembly phase, I can't see the labor savings. The design doesn't get rid of the hose clamp. A spring clamp is just as effective speed-wise.

Those precision injection molded are expensive parts to make. Keep in mind it's times 2 per connection.

perhaps true.

but that seems to be the driving impetus for modularity and assembled sub assemblies done at third party manufacturers, rather than in the auto makers actual facility.

Lots of those sub assemblers around me, and the people working there aren't UAW members, yet they're doing what a UAW worker would have done at the factory back in the day.

who knows why they've chosen to do what they do.
Everytime I'm frustrated I just remind myself that engineers will make it 50% more complex to gain 1% efficiency.
and while that seems reall stupid, all those 1% gains add up to be what it is.
and I enjoy it for what it is.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by srey

What's the operating temperature of your Mazda 3? The NA 2.0-2.3 port injection 4 banger with a belt-driven water pump and 144-155 hp is a much milder operating environment than the turbo 3.0 direct injected inline 6 with an electric water pump and 300 hp in your 335xi. I'm not trying to be a fan boy, but you have to admit it's not an apples to apples comparison. That said, does BMW have a history of poor cooling systems? Yes. Even in the less harsh engine environments of the e39's, e46's, etc. it's been an issue. I just bring up that you're not comparing apples to apples between your Mazda and your BMW.

If you want 300+ hp and bulletproof reliability you typically need NA with higher displacement. The best compromise might be the 3.5-3.7 liter VQ motor from Nissan, or the 3.5 liter 2GR motor from Toyota (typically not a 300 hp motor). Otherwise you're looking at a V8.

I see what ur saying but more power should not be a reason for more failures. Both cars will run similar oil temps.. 100-120. C

There are V8s with tons of power on mechanical pumps.. running great. Too many to name. So nothing wrong with mechanical pump. BMW is going back to those.

Like everyone says. They cheap on some parts.. that's all. If they didn't it would be great.

VQ motors are legendary. Balance between power and performance. I don't hear any of those new Nissan V6 Turbo engines with so much issues. That's probably my next car. Performance and reliability.

[delmarco]

I have driven three BMW 3 series: 1995 318i E36 (up to 165,000 miles),a 2001 330i E46 (up to 96,000 miles) and my current 2011 335i E90 (has 56,000 miles).

I can say with out a doubt that my oldest car ever the E36 had ZERO cooling issues in the time I've owned it. At 165k it still had original water pump, radiator and thermostat (Only thing I replaced was the hoses prematurely).

My E46 coolant system gave out mainly at the 85k mark. Replaced the hoses, a cracked expansion tank, and prematurely replaced the original water pump (which still looked good after 10 years 80k+ miles in the car) with a Stewart EMP Water Pump.

My E90 at 50k miles had a leaky expansion tank and the water pump/thermostat failed. So there is that.

Sad thing is though the replacement coolant parts were $300(DIY) to $500 with shop labor for a full revamp of the E36 cars. On the E90 A full revamp of the cooling system was a about $500 (DIY) to $800 shop labor. On the E90 the water pump alone cost $500 to $800 and shops want $1000 to $1200 just for that labor alone so I couldn't even tell you what a full E90 cooling system revamp cost.

Sickening.....

Originally Posted by tilua

I'm just venting. I've owned 3 different BMW's gladly to say this will be my last one. I'm just fed up with fixing the cooling system all the time. It just seems like BMW use the same material on their models including the early 2000 model, which BREAKS all the time. I'm talking about the plastic they use on all of their hoses, radiator, expansion tank, etc. They get old and becomes brittle (sometimes muddy on the inside) which break off and spew coolant everywhere. On my current car (2008 335i), I've replaced almost all the plastic component (unfortunately though multiple occasions) including the expansion tank, radiator, multiple hoses with the plastic fitting onto the engine, as well as thermostat and water pump. I afraid to drive this car long distance because probably the first hose/plastic piece will fail again because it has been 50K miles or so ago.

This is not only the issue with the E90 line but as well as the E46, E53. I'm not sure if the change has been made on the F30. Why is it so hard for BMW to recognize this is the issue????
We've owned Acura/Honda, Toyota/Lexus, and they never seem to have this issue.