E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Causes for crankcase pressure



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-07-2022, 05:49 PM   #1
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
I'm a bit stumped here. I have been familiarized with our ventilation systems for a long while now and have completely no clue what the cause here could be.

I have the VTT oil breather cap, and oil is seeping from the filter, with a thin film being sprayed throughout my engine bay.

I have confirmed my breather hose is still in good shape and the valve within still works correctly. Considering the breather cap only vents under crank pressure, and my car is not creating any crank pressure at idle (confirmed by removing cap at idle and placing a piece of paper over it), it must be venting under boost.

So, if my crank is pressurizing under boost, then the breather hose must not be working correctly? Or could the issue be my valve cover? I've verified no cracks or leaks and valve cover isn't even 2 years old, purchased from BimmerWorld around September of 2020.

I do have a low side catch can via the BMS kit, which is collecting oil and I verified none of the fittings are stuck and they are all operating correctly, but considering the low side is essentially disabled under boost I feel this wouldn't have an affect on this situation?

Anyone have any ideas?
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2022, 06:35 PM   #2
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
One thing I didn't think of, boost making its way into the crankcase through the head ports?
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2022, 07:46 PM   #3
335i54n
Lieutenant
241
Rep
449
Posts

Drives: e90 335i, e39 m5
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: socal

iTrader: (0)

its normal and thats why those things dont work. no time for the oil to collect and no where to drain and so just mist out. one of the reason i dont run a bov to keep my engine bay clean

good video


Last edited by 335i54n; 08-07-2022 at 08:31 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2022, 07:48 PM   #4
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i54n View Post
its normal and thats why those things dont work. no time for the oil to collect and no where to drain and so just mist out. one of the reason i dont run a bov to keep my engine bay clean
Definitely not normal. I've spoked with several others who've run them over long periods and they did not experience this.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2022, 07:52 PM   #5
Sgop335
Colonel
Sgop335's Avatar
United_States
645
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 07 335i e92, 08 535i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Does it have a pcv valve?
Anyways i have an oil cap w a hose to attach a pressure gage to measure cc pressure
__________________
335i e92 TPC 19Ts
Appreciate 1
Dave92N54525.50
      08-07-2022, 08:19 PM   #6
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Does it have a pcv valve?
Anyways i have an oil cap w a hose to attach a pressure gage to measure cc pressure
The cap? Yes it has a check valve, I verified it works correctly.

If you mean my car, yes and no. I have the BMS low side OCC setup. There is a fitting that goes into the VC, cannot remember if it has a valve or not that routes to the catch can. The can then routes to a valve fitting next to my BOV reference at my throttle body.

That would be useful, I actually recently moved out of Westminster but i'll be up there to pick some stuff up soon. If possible i'd love to borrow it.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2022, 08:29 PM   #7
Sgop335
Colonel
Sgop335's Avatar
United_States
645
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 07 335i e92, 08 535i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
The cap? Yes it has a check valve, I verified it works correctly.

If you mean my car, yes and no. I have the BMS low side OCC setup. There is a fitting that goes into the VC, cannot remember if it has a valve or not that routes to the catch can. The can then routes to a valve fitting next to my BOV reference at my throttle body.

That would be useful, I actually recently moved out of Westminster but i'll be up there to pick some stuff up soon. If possible i'd love to borrow it.
Yes the car, not all familiar w the occ. the VC has a pcv valve that may have been replaced w a plug in some cases ( i think). The pcv valve may leak or not seated properly.
Sure you can borrow it. I modified a new oil cap w hose etc.
__________________
335i e92 TPC 19Ts
Appreciate 1
Dave92N54525.50
      08-08-2022, 01:25 AM   #8
Saif2018
Brigadier General
972
Rep
3,219
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Definitely not normal. I've spoked with several others who've run them over long periods and they did not experience this.
Can't remember exactly but pretty sure there was a post about sludge or some sort of crap building up on the VTT breather cap. Does it even work?

I mean this is VTT we're taking about,
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 10:45 AM   #9
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saif2018 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Definitely not normal. I've spoked with several others who've run them over long periods and they did not experience this.
Can't remember exactly but pretty sure there was a post about sludge or some sort of crap building up on the VTT breather cap. Does it even work?

I mean this is VTT we're taking about,
There was but I can explain that a bit more as well.

At least for me, every winter I experience some buildup on the oil cap, whether it was the stock cap or the breather cap. This is due to the oil not always reaching 220°F + to vaporize all of the condensation. Happens on every car i've ever owned. This is why in the winter time I go out of my way to drive the car an hour + a few times a week.

With the breather cap I have noticed more buildup, likely due to the fact that it well, breathes. Therefore colder, and more "wet" air is mixing with the oil around the oil cap.

The caps definitely work, whether they're needed or not is certainly up for debate but as I am seeing here, it's clearly helping me at the moment by relieving pressure in my crank case. It's just a check valve, if there's below a minimum pressure, it stays closed. Above that pressure, and it vents. This style of breather has been used on many different cars for a very long time.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 10:48 AM   #10
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Having spoke with my tuner he is inclined like me to believe the pressure is likely coming from boost going through the intake ports into the head via the head ports.

I will likely be trying to plug my head ports in the coming weeks. Not too hard of a job it seems. I can get the intake manifold out in about an hour, and from there it's just basically a standard valve cover gasket job plus an hour for plugging the ports.

Good Saturday or Sunday job while my girl is at work
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 10:51 AM   #11
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
The cap? Yes it has a check valve, I verified it works correctly.

If you mean my car, yes and no. I have the BMS low side OCC setup. There is a fitting that goes into the VC, cannot remember if it has a valve or not that routes to the catch can. The can then routes to a valve fitting next to my BOV reference at my throttle body.

That would be useful, I actually recently moved out of Westminster but i'll be up there to pick some stuff up soon. If possible i'd love to borrow it.
Yes the car, not all familiar w the occ. the VC has a pcv valve that may have been replaced w a plug in some cases ( i think). The pcv valve may leak or not seated properly.
Sure you can borrow it. I modified a new oil cap w hose etc.
Awesome. I'm thinking I'll be up there sometime tomorrow or Wednesday. Is there any time for you that would work better? Car should be totally warm by the time i'm there, wouldn't need it probably more than 30 minutes. PM if you'd like.

Also, how long is the hose? Is it possible for the gauge to be visible while driving?
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 12:34 PM   #12
iqraceworks
Brigadier General
iqraceworks's Avatar
1981
Rep
3,715
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

I guess I don't understand the point of the VTT breather and aftermarket pcv setup. Why not just run the stock PCV setup.....new VC, RB or BMS metal PCV valve, and OEM flapper valve? Maybe add a catch can if you want.

That's a simple setup that just works. Sure, if you are making 700+hp with crazy high boost, you might be have issues....but it seems like most people are trying to fix problems that don't exist by adding things like the VTT breathers and messing around with additional external aftermarket PCV setups.

I'm running RB Two turbos at 25psi....no PCV issues, no blow-by, no oil usage issues, no pressure buildup issues.....and I run the stock PCV setup with an RB PCV valve. Simple, and it just works.
__________________
2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Catless Downpipes, silicone inlets, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension, Whiteline subframe bushings, Front/Rear M3 control arms, G-Plus FMIC, Stage 2 LPFP, Custom E40 tune by Justin (V8Bait), xHP stage 3 transmission flash, RB Two Turbos....10.90 @ 128mph
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 01:01 PM   #13
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
I guess I don't understand the point of the VTT breather and aftermarket pcv setup. Why not just run the stock PCV setup.....new VC, RB or BMS metal PCV valve, and OEM flapper valve? Maybe add a catch can if you want.

That's a simple setup that just works. Sure, if you are making 700+hp with crazy high boost, you might be have issues....but it seems like most people are trying to fix problems that don't exist by adding things like the VTT breathers and messing around with additional external aftermarket PCV setups.

I'm running RB Two turbos at 25psi....no PCV issues, no blow-by, no oil usage issues, no pressure buildup issues.....and I run the stock PCV setup with an RB PCV valve. Simple, and it just works.
I daily this car. It spends an ass load of time under vacuum conditions where our engines experience a lot of oil vapors being rerouted into the engine. This is why I went with a low side catch can.

It's shocking how much that can catches. It's half full every oil change (3-3500 miles). Even more so in the winter. I don't think it's absurd to not want that going into my engine and compounding the already absurd carbon buildup we experience.

I went with a breather cap as a fail safe. Things happen, stuff goes wrong. There's plenty of reasons our crankcase could pressurize even on the stock system, especially at higher boost levels. I have 147k miles and I'd like to get a lot more out of it, it's not crazy to think if I can eliminate the possibility of over pressurizing the crank case that I would do so. Clearly, it's doing it's job and stopping that from happening. I do NOT baby this car. Yes, I always let the oil clear 190°F before boost, yes I maintain it like crazy, but I certainly don't drive around like a grandma when I can.

Did I create a new problem by trying to solve one? Possibly. Is it overkill for me to run an external PCV at my power levels? Maybe. Am I upset about it? No. Am I going to solve the new problem? Absolutely. I don't see the point in sitting here saying "The stock system with an upgraded pcv valve works just fine" when we've known for many years now, it does a mediocre job at best. There's a reason Rob sells his kit, external PCVs are better. Simple as that.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2022, 05:39 PM   #14
Sgop335
Colonel
Sgop335's Avatar
United_States
645
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 07 335i e92, 08 535i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Awesome. I'm thinking I'll be up there sometime tomorrow or Wednesday. Is there any time for you that would work better? Car should be totally warm by the time i'm there, wouldn't need it probably more than 30 minutes. PM if you'd like.

Also, how long is the hose? Is it possible for the gauge to be visible while driving?
Yes hose is long enough. Just pulled it out, im missing an adapter to connect to npt pressure gage. Will look for one tomorrow. Any day evening could work.
Attached Images
 
__________________
335i e92 TPC 19Ts
Appreciate 1
Dave92N54525.50
      08-08-2022, 05:55 PM   #15
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Awesome. I'm thinking I'll be up there sometime tomorrow or Wednesday. Is there any time for you that would work better? Car should be totally warm by the time i'm there, wouldn't need it probably more than 30 minutes. PM if you'd like.

Also, how long is the hose? Is it possible for the gauge to be visible while driving?
Yes hose is long enough. Just pulled it out, im missing an adapter to connect to npt pressure gage. Will look for one tomorrow. Any day evening could work.
Awesome! I'll send you a PM when i'm heading up your way. Will likely be Wednesday, busy tomorrow evening. Living down in Severn now, recently got a 2 bedroom townhouse with my girlfriend
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2022, 05:26 PM   #16
Sgop335
Colonel
Sgop335's Avatar
United_States
645
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 07 335i e92, 08 535i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Awesome! I'll send you a PM when i'm heading up your way. Will likely be Wednesday, busy tomorrow evening. Living down in Severn now, recently got a 2 bedroom townhouse with my girlfriend
Good deal! Btw adapter, digital gage all connected
__________________
335i e92 TPC 19Ts
Appreciate 1
Dave92N54525.50
      08-11-2022, 04:23 PM   #17
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Awesome! I'll send you a PM when i'm heading up your way. Will likely be Wednesday, busy tomorrow evening. Living down in Severn now, recently got a 2 bedroom townhouse with my girlfriend
Good deal! Btw adapter, digital gage all connected
Just saw this! My reason for going up there is a package being delivered but it's taking longer than expected. I'll be sure to PM you when i'm heasing up there!
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2022, 06:03 PM   #18
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Thanks to Sgop335 I managed to get some pressure readings today. Thank you again!

I've been looking for what the specs should be, and I believe I found idle spec but nothing for under boost or decel. Does anyone have these by chance? Wondering if feuer do you know?
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2022, 07:32 PM   #19
Sgop335
Colonel
Sgop335's Avatar
United_States
645
Rep
2,005
Posts

Drives: 07 335i e92, 08 535i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Thanks to Sgop335 I managed to get some pressure readings today. Thank you again!

I've been looking for what the specs should be, and I believe I found idle spec but nothing for under boost or decel. Does anyone have these by chance? Wondering if feuer do you know?
Welcome! Looks like about 22mbar max
Attached Images
 
__________________
335i e92 TPC 19Ts
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2022, 07:35 PM   #20
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Thanks to Sgop335 I managed to get some pressure readings today. Thank you again!

I've been looking for what the specs should be, and I believe I found idle spec but nothing for under boost or decel. Does anyone have these by chance? Wondering if feuer do you know?
Welcome! Looks like about 22mbar max
Hmm, not good then. That's about 0.32 psi and i'm seeing 0.8 under WOT.

Just sent Rob an email to see if he has any clues as he's extremely knowledgeable on our ventilation systems. Going to check my breather hose again as well.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2022, 08:57 PM   #21
Mustafa.e92
Lieutenant
Mustafa.e92's Avatar
206
Rep
497
Posts

Drives: 2009 bmw 335i
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Have we ruled out worn rings? Comp and leak test wouldn't hurt doing
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2022, 08:58 PM   #22
Dave92N54
Major
Dave92N54's Avatar
No_Country
526
Rep
1,161
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Westminster, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa.e92 View Post
Have we ruled out worn rings? Comp and leak test wouldn't hurt doing
Been done. 180psi across all 6. But fuck it I can run it again this weekend or Friday.
__________________
09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST