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      07-20-2019, 08:40 AM   #1
TheyH8n
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‘11 parasitic battery drain Constant fuel pump priming, start button light on

*****UPDATED PLEASE READ POST 17 for fuel pump update etc *****

Hello just bought the car a week or so again have had the increased battery discharge a couple times when starting the car. Last night I noticed the start/stop button light does not goes off. Not after 16 minutes not after 6hours. From my research it seems the CAS module controls the start button? I do NOT HAVE CA I don’t know where to go or what to replace at this point. I’m really on the fence about selling the car from all I’ve read with all their electronics they seem highly unreliable long term. I do enjoy driving the car but am not looking for a money/time pit. I’ve read things from headunit replacement to IBS but not a lot surround my exact issue. I do have the IBS unhooked right now.. it made no difference

Last edited by TheyH8n; 07-24-2019 at 01:31 PM..
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      07-20-2019, 09:17 AM   #2
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The issue isn’t your Start/Stop button; it’s that the car isn’t going to sleep. You are correct in that this is controlled by CAS module.

Scan for codes first. Not guaranteed you’ll get anything, but worth a check.

There are some posts on here that might give you a good starting point. Here’s one to start you off: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183379

Good luck!
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      07-20-2019, 09:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90yyc View Post
The issue isn’t your Start/Stop button; it’s that the car isn’t going to sleep. You are correct in that this is controlled by CAS module.

Scan for codes first. Not guaranteed you’ll get anything, but worth a check.

There are some posts on here that might give you a good starting point. Here’s one to start you off: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183379

Good luck!
Thanks I’ve read that one last night as well. Ordered foxwell nt510 too not sure if it will help anything st all

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      07-21-2019, 01:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
Thanks I’ve read that one last night as well. Ordered foxwell nt510 too not sure if it will help anything st all
Another culprit for current draw is aftermarket accessories. Is there any aftermarket accessories fitted to the car?
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      07-21-2019, 09:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilj35 View Post
Another culprit for current draw is aftermarket accessories. Is there any aftermarket accessories fitted to the car?
Zero aftermarket.
Has led dome lights which I’m switching back as well. Main issue is my start button. Not suppose to be lit up 24/7
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      07-21-2019, 09:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
Zero aftermarket.
Has led dome lights which I’m switching back as well. Main issue is my start button. Not suppose to be lit up 24/7
The only way to really find a current draw is to connect an amp meter up to the battery and then measure what the actual current draw is. It should be no more than .04 amps. Then start removing fuses one by one until the current draw comes down to .04 or less.

Last edited by N52bigblock; 07-22-2019 at 12:37 AM..
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      07-22-2019, 12:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
Zero aftermarket.
Has led dome lights which I’m switching back as well. Main issue is my start button. Not suppose to be lit up 24/7
Dome lights couldn’t be your issue so I wouldn’t worry about switching them back unless you really want to.

I know your start/stop button is lit up, but the gist of my earlier post is that it’s just a symptom of a bigger problem. A CAS module not going to sleep will cause this. I’d look there first.

As Neil said, a current measurement will help you narrow this down. Foxwell tool might unearth some codes but it’s hard to say.
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      07-22-2019, 01:01 PM   #8
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Im well aware of the amp test while pulling fuses.. I just haven't had the time, or a helper. Im about 95% sure the draw is going to be directly from the start/stop button fuse (it has 2) and/or the CAS module relay.. Im thinking this is intermittent as well because last night I noticed no start/stop light on and this morning no battery drainage light either upon startup.. Then I drove and parked it for an hour or so came back with the light (cant see the light during the day) So I cannot confirm yet but thats what im thinking. Assuming its CAS.. do you just replace it and get it coded or? I see cheapest on ebay looks like $500ish
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      07-22-2019, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
...have had the increased battery discharge a couple times when starting the car. Last night
I noticed the start/stop button light does not goes off. Not after 16 minutes not after 6hours.
As others have stated, when either P Gearshift Light or START button remain illuminated after more than 30 minutes
(depending upon whether locked or NOT), then one or more modules is NOT entering "Sleep Mode." INPA or ISTA
will provide Fault Codes and other "Stored" diagnostic information related to "Quiescent Current" or draw when system
should be asleep. It would be foolish to throw parts at it without having a shop with INPA/ISTA, who knows HOW to
use it, do 15 to 30 minutes of diagnostics.

Attached are 2 pages from BMW Training Manual, "e90 Voltage Supply & Bus Systems", pages 41 & 42, which describe
how the system is SUPPOSED to work, and what diagnostics are available using INPA/ISTA.

George
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      07-22-2019, 02:57 PM   #10
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since the author has e93 335 in his avatar info then he should check modules in trunk which can be damaged by water since roof can be not fully tight or it's drain clogged with leafs
or this can be engine electic water pump
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      07-22-2019, 05:51 PM   #11
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I believe ISTA can check if a module is not entering sleep mode and constantly sending wakeup commands. I used this function to diagnose a bad battery.
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      07-22-2019, 05:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
Im well aware of the amp test while pulling fuses.. I just haven't had the time, or a helper. Im about 95% sure the draw is going to be directly from the start/stop button fuse (it has 2) and/or the CAS module relay.. Im thinking this is intermittent as well because last night I noticed no start/stop light on and this morning no battery drainage light either upon startup.. Then I drove and parked it for an hour or so came back with the light (cant see the light during the day) So I cannot confirm yet but thats what im thinking. Assuming its CAS.. do you just replace it and get it coded or? I see cheapest on ebay looks like $500ish
It's not going to be directly from the Start/Stop button fuse. That makes no sense. What does the LED light in there draw? 15mA, maybe 20? Check it if you must, but I'd start elsewhere if I was you.

As for the lack of helper, see if your multimeter has a Min/Max function; specifically, one that provides audible feedback when new min or max points are reached. I've also had luck with just using longer alligator-clip leads and positioning the multimeter in the rear window so it can be seen from inside the car. Even if you have a basic meter with short ass leads, try just pulling the most likely fuse, checking the reading, and then moving onto the next one if nothing has changed.
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      07-23-2019, 10:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpending View Post
since the author has e93 335 in his avatar info then he should check modules in trunk which can be damaged by water since roof can be not fully tight or it's drain clogged with leafs
or this can be engine electic water pump
that was an 07 i sold quite awhile ago.. just picked up this daily driver 11' e90
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      07-23-2019, 02:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
that was an 07 i sold quite awhile ago.. just picked up this daily driver 11' e90
ok, do your e90 have sunroof ? if yes, then check it's drains
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      07-24-2019, 09:15 AM   #15
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I went ahead and put a new battery for hell of it yesterday thought I was good. Today light back on. I’m noticing when this occurs the AC memory appears to be reset and turns on in some weird mode which is “auto” it only coincides with the low battery discharge. Otherwise it’s where I left it when I got out last. Anyone know what controls AC memory or any TSB maybe or something?
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      07-24-2019, 09:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
I went ahead and put a new battery for hell of it yesterday thought I was good. Today light back on. I’m noticing when this occurs the AC memory appears to be reset and turns on in some weird mode which is “auto” it only coincides with the low battery discharge. Otherwise it’s where I left it when I got out last. Anyone know what controls AC memory or any TSB maybe or something?
Dude, I say this with love, but it seems you’re trying to solve each symptom without addressing the actual problem... Of course a new battery didn’t work; you clearly have a discharge issue. And if you have time to install a new battery, you have time to do some testing that will actually get you closer to the root cause. Again, not trying to be a dick, but the logic of your method escapes me.

What controls retention of the IHKA memory? The battery! Because the memory is volatile, it requires power to remember your settings, so it makes perfect sense that your climate settings are being lost given the issue you have.

FWIW, even with an old battery at the end of its life, you shouldn’t be having the issues you describe. I replaced my original, ten-year-old battery that had been used for over 200k miles. It still functioned okay, but in the thick of (Canadian...) winter, it had started to show signs of its age.
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      07-24-2019, 11:33 AM   #17
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ok so just made a big development.. not sure how to correct it.. its def my fuel pump killing my battery when the car is LOCKED, it primes every 12-25-12-25 seconds.. forever.. when i LOCK the car.. it primes every one minute and three seconds on the dot.. over and over.

Ive been reading about the EKPS module which controls the fuel pump, but the lovely thing is that module is also controlled by another module so I dont even know what to do next

did an amp draw test.. sits perfectly at 3milliamps of course until the fuel pump primes which kicks it to over 1amp for that split second
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      07-24-2019, 01:07 PM   #18
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removed EKP from vehicle plugged it back in, and it stopped cycling etc. maybe it fixed itself (ya right) well see how long..
My start/stop button is also off and it reads 0.00 amps where as before it was 0.03 which still seems in-spec. Either way now its FULLY sleeping
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      07-24-2019, 06:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
ok so just made a big development.. not sure how to correct it.. its def my fuel pump killing my battery when the car is LOCKED, it primes every 12-25-12-25 seconds.. forever.. when i LOCK the car.. it primes every one minute and three seconds on the dot.. over and over.

Ive been reading about the EKPS module which controls the fuel pump, but the lovely thing is that module is also controlled by another module so I dont even know what to do next

did an amp draw test.. sits perfectly at 3milliamps of course until the fuel pump primes which kicks it to over 1amp for that split second
What you're seeing is 30mA, but regardless that's well within limits.

Once again though my friend, the issue at hand is: what is causing the car to continuously wake up/not enter sleep mode? Something on the CAN network is sending a command to the fuel pump module to prime the pump; the module itself is not likely the issue.

Here's an excerpt from a technical doc on the E90 electrical systems:
The Junction Box Electronics stores information pertaining :
• Max number of unexpected wake-ups at with Term R within last 5 weeks
• Last 5 control modules that prevented the vehicle from going to sleep, plus mileage
reading for each event
• Driving profile for the past 5 weeks
Since a Terminal 30g_f relay is installed, information pertaining to the cause/reason for
shutting off of terminal 30g_f such as:
• With terminal R off, the DME detects, via the IBS, that the starting capability limit has
been reached (battery capacity is just enough to start the vehicle).
• After 30/60 minutes of terminal R off, JB detects that control modules are preventing the vehicle from entering the sleep mode.
• With terminal R off, the JB counts more than 30 wake-ups at terminal R.
Have you scanned for codes or managed to install INPA or ISTA yet? I imagine they will help you get much closer to your solution. As you can see above, info pertaining to sleep/wake patterns is all logged. This should make finding the root cause much easier.
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      07-24-2019, 11:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90yyc View Post
What you're seeing is 30mA, but regardless that's well within limits.

Once again though my friend, the issue at hand is: what is causing the car to continuously wake up/not enter sleep mode? Something on the CAN network is sending a command to the fuel pump module to prime the pump; the module itself is not likely the issue.

Here's an excerpt from a technical doc on the E90 electrical systems:
The Junction Box Electronics stores information pertaining :
• Max number of unexpected wake-ups at with Term R within last 5 weeks
• Last 5 control modules that prevented the vehicle from going to sleep, plus mileage
reading for each event
• Driving profile for the past 5 weeks
Since a Terminal 30g_f relay is installed, information pertaining to the cause/reason for
shutting off of terminal 30g_f such as:
• With terminal R off, the DME detects, via the IBS, that the starting capability limit has
been reached (battery capacity is just enough to start the vehicle).
• After 30/60 minutes of terminal R off, JB detects that control modules are preventing the vehicle from entering the sleep mode.
• With terminal R off, the JB counts more than 30 wake-ups at terminal R.
Have you scanned for codes or managed to install INPA or ISTA yet? I imagine they will help you get much closer to your solution. As you can see above, info pertaining to sleep/wake patterns is all logged. This should make finding the root cause much easier.

not yet but OBVIOUSLY if I knew the issue that was causing the wake up I wouldnt be posting here..Im doing the best with what I have at hand at the moment.. the 30G relay also gets very hot, i hear random electric modules noises every 30 seconds or so when i pull the relay it stops. The things that go through that module are the JBE and CAS.. can only imagine its the CAS, JBE, or that relay (unlikely) Fuel pump relay runs through JBE...
my start button runs through CAS.. go figure

Took out the EKP for the hell of it, looks brand new when I replaced it I havent heard the fuel pump do its continual priming again thus far in probably 10+ starts
also took out JBE today to visually inspect, looked all good there but I do have some old water spot marks on the padding under the dash which the JBE sits directly on.. Im leaning towards JBE

Last edited by TheyH8n; 07-24-2019 at 11:25 PM..
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      07-25-2019, 01:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyH8n View Post
not yet but OBVIOUSLY if I knew the issue that was causing the wake up I wouldnt be posting here..Im doing the best with what I have at hand at the moment.. the 30G relay also gets very hot, i hear random electric modules noises every 30 seconds or so when i pull the relay it stops. The things that go through that module are the JBE and CAS.. can only imagine its the CAS, JBE, or that relay (unlikely) Fuel pump relay runs through JBE...
my start button runs through CAS.. go figure

Took out the EKP for the hell of it, looks brand new when I replaced it I havent heard the fuel pump do its continual priming again thus far in probably 10+ starts
also took out JBE today to visually inspect, looked all good there but I do have some old water spot marks on the padding under the dash which the JBE sits directly on.. Im leaning towards JBE
Wow! Especially the bit before you edited it out! People are only trying to help. Pretty sure you haven't been further into your car than more than 90% of people on here either.

Last edited by N52bigblock; 07-25-2019 at 01:19 AM..
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      07-25-2019, 12:14 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by neilj35 View Post
Wow! Especially the bit before you edited it out! People are only trying to help. Pretty sure you haven't been further into your car than more than 90% of people on here either.
I wouldnt doubt it, I could give two fucks that you brought it back. MOST bmw owners dont even get their hands dirty, mercedes is even worse. I have a e550 coupe and any support on that is non existent.. Ive owned a good 20-30 vehicles, Ive never had a car in any shop anywhere.. I eventually figure it out.
Is it a requirement to be condescending when on a bmw forum in order to help? I didnt get the memo.. did you have anything RELEVANT to add to the thread? Keep in mind this does not only help me it helps others who search in the future, as I did for hours on end
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