[HeatherM35d]

Originally Posted by BEWWWM

Those hybrids definitely shine with more fuel(meth) as shown with your #'s, can't wait to see when someone upgrades the fuel system + meth.

I know of upgraded injectors and upgraded high pressure pump, plus fuel supply. You can have a stock set of injectors extrude honed and flow tested to whatever percentage flow you want over stock.

[petey_highboost]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

This is true, there some more room to grow in the tune. We were very conservative since it was the first hybrid setup we did on the m57.

You think 400+ on fuel is within reach with the hybrids?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by HeatherM35d

I know of upgraded injectors and upgraded high pressure pump, plus fuel supply. You can have a stock set of injectors extrude honed and flow tested to whatever percentage flow you want over stock.

Will you get the appropriate calibration code?

[racediesel]

hello
Tuikku is right about as saying at N57 single turbo with its own High pressure fuel pump could get 380-400hp (depending pump code,70 or 75).
injectors can handdle much more.
turbo will be limitting horsepower increasings,you will get OEM turbo 330-350hp (Finnish one,longer legs than USA).

referens:
BMW F11 2012 535d (313hp version)
M550d pump.
Wagner intercooler.
DPF/CAT delete.
programming. 2.4bar boost.
447hp and 870nm (Finnish one).
Greetings
Pasi

[Works]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
I told you earlier, where do you find nearly all answers for one turbo solutions up to => +400hp.

Thanks, I appreciate that! Can you remind me where this was again?

It is totally up to your discretion if you want to do that and us newbies are always interested in learning more as well as knowing where to find the materials to learn from. And on top of that, if we can get direct and detailed instructions on where to actually start, most of us can pick our way through.

A thread name if not a link goes a long way.

[Works]

Originally Posted by racediesel

Tuikku is right about as saying at N57 single turbo with its own HPFP could get 380-400hp (depending pump code,70 or 75).
injectors can handdle much more.
turbo will be limitting horsepower increasings,you will get OEM turbo 330-350hp

Heya, thanks for this! Looks like a change of tuners is in order if the info that I'm getting from Motorbit is misleading. Since this is a daily driver and I'm not going to be beefing up the transmission, 380-400hp is pretty much maximum of what I'm going to be expecting. And I might be perfectly happy to get to the around 350hp mark with the stock fueling and turbo parts that I have by just introducing the DPF replacement pipe and an uprated intercooler. If I'm then itching to get the last 30-50hp (depeding on HPFP) I might then splurge for a hybrid turbo and at that time, uprate the HPFP to the M550xd one.

Again, thanks for the detailed and informative response.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by Works

Thanks, I appreciate that! Can you remind me where this was again? ...

Tuostapa

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

...

Also, I do tend to agree with many of your ideas on the exhaust side bottleneck of the turbo. The external wastegate has freed up more top end in my measurements even without huge boost numbers.
...

Interesting additional testing data that pertains to a lot of what tuikku has been saying.

Some interesting reading on "limits" for EMP's (attaching a screen shot of the typical things that limit the safe levels): https://books.google.com/books?id=_H...0ratio&f=false

I have eliminated the weak links of items 1, 2 and 4 in my system. Based on tuikku's comments about where he's pushed EMP's, and seeing what I got with the internal wastegate testing (post 139), I played with allowing my EWG settings to increase to higher levels.

Attached is a comparison of the IWG to an EWG setting with equal peak EMP, and then one from today where I changed some things and let EMP go a bit higher. The ratio of EMP to boost is better in both EWG configs than IWG. The AFR's of the EWG settings are increasingly better than the IWG, and with today's config, that keeps boost going into the peak rpm range, my exhaust color is a hazy grayish, as opposed to blackish.

Not seeing any power benefit between these last two EWG settings, but PerfExpert measures ~ 25 whp more than the IWG setting (which is 10 more than the initial EWG setting from post 139).

[tuikku]

.
Thank you, I really appreciate this.

I have seen manymany times, that in sensor data, I cannot see any benefit, but when I look back, I see less smoke, which quite often means more power with the same settings, fuel burns better, more efficiency.

As I have told many times, smoke is a good indicator, and changes in it.
Not too much smoke.

[DWR]

Simply, smoke is an indicator of incomplete combustion. Ideally, an AFR @ 18 maximizes BSFC, giving the most HP per mass of fuel. Unfortunately, that takes a lot of air. So, we take the air we have and maximize HP, even though it is not efficient. Black smoke produces the most power, if you can keep the temperature in check. It is also hard on the moving parts. Personally, I prefer a more stealthy diesel.

Good job, TDIwyse. It will be interesting to see what happens when you really get control of the EWG. You and I have had vigorous discussions about this in the past. It is very difficult to do it mechanically. We can see the result of the EBP on the back of the EWG valve, combining with the boost pressure against the spring, as reduced boost in the upper rpms. Sorry, but I couldn't resist setting the stage for the next "last mod".

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by DWR

... It will be interesting to see what happens when you really get control of the EWG. You and I have had vigorous discussions about this in the past. It is very difficult to do it mechanically. We can see the result of the EBP on the back of the EWG valve, combining with the boost pressure against the spring, as reduced boost in the upper rpms. Sorry, but I couldn't resist setting the stage for the next "last mod".

Ha. Think we both enjoy a good, vigorous, technical discussion :-)

I was able to make the simple MBC work well and mmic the factor boost curve shape. And it worked well at limiting at peak EMP levels, which is what I was mostly trying to control/limit. But now I'm thinking I'd like to keep the boost flatter into the upper rpm's and minimize the excessive boost in the mid rpm region, and the MBC is no longer allowing me to do what I want. So, there's an EBC on order. But you probably knew it would happen eventually :-)

[shnaggs]

Sweet! ^^^ what EBC are you getting, if I may ask?

[tuikku]

.
I have tried now +~10% more fuel rate, pump works ok, when the fuel is cold and tank is full.

Boost ~43psi, the back pressure must be at least 15psi more, but still goes well.
Torq must be now somewhere above 750ft-lb, turbine do not like that any more, I noticed, it makes sound - maybe I have to reduce low end torque, even I do not want to..
I just tested.
Hopefully I get the "new" pump next week, want to be ready, when I get it ...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
I have tried now +~10% more fuel rate, pump works ok, when the fuel is cold and tank is full.

Boost ~43psi, the back pressure must be at least 15psi more, but still goes well.
Torq must be now somewhere above 750ft-lb, turbine do not like that any more, I noticed, it makes sound - maybe I have to reduce low end torque, even I do not want to..
I just tested.
Hopefully I get the "new" pump next week, want to be ready, when I get it ...

So, we are getting a very interesting comparison between tuikku's modified turbo and OEM turbo of TDIwyse. Notice that both are quoting similar manifold EBP, but very different boosts. I'm wondering what the local hybrid data looks like. So far, EBP data has been witheld. No doubt they lie somewhere in between.

This is the type of exchange I was hoping for. Looks like we are learning something about alternatives outside of North America.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by shnaggs

Sweet! ^^^ what EBC are you getting, if I may ask?

Ordered this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

For $150, and being able to do rpm dependent boost profiles, seems like a good value.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
I have tried now +~10% more fuel rate, pump works ok, when the fuel is cold and tank is full.

Boost ~43psi, the back pressure must be at least 15psi more, but still goes well.
Torq must be now somewhere above 750ft-lb, turbine do not like that any more, I noticed, it makes sound - maybe I have to reduce low end torque, even I do not want to..
I just tested.
Hopefully I get the "new" pump next week, want to be ready, when I get it ...

Interesting stuff.

I found how to export the raw data from PerfExpert, so graphing is a lot easier now. And I can overlay wheel and crank results on top of each other. It's using a flat ~15% drivetrain loss correction (wheel #/crank #) to get to the crank numbers.

I'm not seeing any advantage from a measured torque/power perspective from the EWG2 and EWG3 settings posted above. But I do see better AFR's with EWG3 and better "smoke" results.

PerfExpert measured results for the recent settings are coming in like this.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by tuikku

...
Boost ~43psi, the back pressure must be at least 15psi more, but still goes well...

Curious, did you log the boost and exhaust manifold pressure, or is the 15 psi "more" comment an estimate?

Was just thinking I should measure the exhaust pressure post turbine to get an idea of what the actual turbine drive pressure is, since the EMP sensor includes the entire exhaust path...

[tuikku]

-
It is an estimation
I don´t measure back pressure any more, it makes me only angry.
I look back the smoke.
As long as I can keep the smoke away, everything is ok.
Original map sensor do not give opportunity to go much higher anymore.
Maybe I'll try water/meth too.
To help this thing stay a one piece.

[shnaggs]

Originally Posted by DWR

So, we are getting a very interesting comparison between tuikku's modified turbo and OEM turbo of TDIwyse. Notice that both are quoting similar manifold EBP, but very different boosts. I'm wondering what the local hybrid data looks like. So far, EBP data has been witheld. No doubt they lie somewhere in between.

This is the type of exchange I was hoping for. Looks like we are learning something about alternatives outside of North America.

Has tuikku mentioned the modifications he has done to his turbos, other than modding the inlet pipes?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing any pics, or a description on his mods.

In that inlet pipe picture though, it clearly looks like he has a bigger LP compressor wheel. Cause the step that butts up to our inlet pipes seems to have been machined away, or maybe they just have different compressor housings and inlet pipe stock???

Funny cause all he talks about is how useless it is to go bigger compressor wheels, without modding turbine first. Not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just confused that's all.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by tuikku

-
...
I don´t measure back pressure any more, it makes me only angry.
...

This made me laugh ...and I choked on my adult beverage :-)

I think you'll like what you can do with the water/methanol.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by shnaggs

Has tuikku mentioned the modifications he has done to his turbos, other than modding the inlet pipes?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing any pics, or a description on his mods.

In that inlet pipe picture though, it clearly looks like he has a bigger LP compressor wheel. Cause the step that butts up to our inlet pipes seems to have been machined away, or maybe they just have different compressor housings and inlet pipe stock???

Funny cause all he talks about is how useless it is to go bigger compressor wheels, without modding turbine first. Not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just confused that's all.

You did miss it. His was modded on both sides by Pro Turbo in Finland.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I'm not seeing any advantage from a measured torque/power perspective from the EWG2 and EWG3 settings posted above. But I do see better AFR's with EWG3 and better "smoke" results.

You didn't add any fuel. You are pushing harder to exhaust the cylinders. Therefore, we know that more energy is coming out of the fuel at the higher AFR. If you adjust the AFR of EWG3 to equal EWG2, by adding fuel, you will see a net gain in HP. Hmm, maybe there is an adjustment of the H20/meth coming next ...