[shehab_e90]

I already posted under the e60 forum but I had so much luck with the e90 forum and this is an N54 so similar to the 335xi e90




Hello everyone, so I have a 2008 535XI with 77k miles N54 engine , my car won’t start and gets zero compression in at least 3 of the cylinders according to my indy.

Back story:


I purchased the car the day it died. It had a very weak battery from sitting so giving jump start took a long time till it started. Once started it was immediately in limp mode and many other errors like steering angle etc…. I shut off the car and turned it on again and everything was gone. Boost was fine and engine was super quiet. It ran fast for 2 mins with boost and then back to limp mode with no turbos. Couple mins later I got an error with low oil pressure in red color on the I drive system. I added an extra quart of oil correct weight and the oil pressure problem went away but still in limp mode (yellow engine with a line across) the oil level was green the whole time. So I decided to drive to home, 75 mile trip. The only issues present at the start were the limp mode with no boost and that’s it everything else sounded great and shifted smooth. Half way I started getting low oil pressure in red intermittently for a little while and then came on permanently. I assumed it was a voltage problem or sensor problem because nothing changed (big mistake I know). So I continued driving and no sounds at all or maybe very faint sound that could also be road noise. No loud weird sounds coming from the engine or performance problem. Once I reached my exit and got on the ramp, 40 degree incline, the car stalled once at like 5mph right before stopping. The stalling was a minor shake and then turned off no loud knocking sounds.

Preliminary diagnostic:

I had it towed to an indy shop and they are tested for compression and got ZERO compression in at least 3 of the cylinders. There is also no spark at all. The engine turns over but weak sound of compression I am uploading the video..

I had it towed home since the indy wanted to charge 700$ to take valve cover off. Once at home I drained the oil and the car was running on at least 7 quarts for the whole trip. The oil was very clean in terms of chips, very small shavings that are tiny not even considerable and I have seen them in my 325i with n52 with no issue.

I am very mechanically confident and have done a lot of work on my 2006 325i (N52) like taking off the valve cover, intake manifold, transmission pan removal, radiator, etc…

The original problem I am thinking is an oil pump failure like one of the bolts coming lose or the pump failed causing low oil pressure but hoping it was still operating a bit to prevent major damage to the pistons etc…

My thinking is it is a internal engine failure like a broken cam, timing chain, valves, etc… I would like help to know where to start and doesn’t have to be what I think the problem is so I am open to any suggestion of tests to do or inspections before replacing the engine.

So overall to conclude, zero compression from at least 3 cylinders, barely any metal I attached a pic with the biggest piece I found, no sounds from engine at all before stalling, enough oil, no spark as well.

The codes were cleared by a friend of mine in attempt to restart it. The codes seem to be a lot of randomness and false alarms because of one fault triggering this.

I did pull the code through a normal obdii in hopes to start it while on the ramp

2FDP: crankshaft sensor, signal, not plausible
2A82: VANOS intake
2A87: Exhaust VANOS mechanism
2A98: crankshaft inlet camshaft, reference
2AA4: inlet camshaft position monitoring
2AB4: DME internal fault: RAM checksum
2ACC: DME master relay, shift delay
2DEC: power management battery
2E68: Knock-sensor signal 1 ( high circuit)
2E69: Knock sensor signal 2 (high circuit)
2F80: engine shutdown time plausibility
3100: boost pressure control deactivation

The codes were cleared by a friend of mine in attempt to restart it. The codes seem to be a lot of randomness and false alarms because of one fault triggering this.

all help is greatly appreciated


video of attempted start

[shehab_e90]

Hey guys any ideas at all? I am really desperate for help to get my car alive again. Any ideas are greatly appreciated

[ctuna]

Do both the camshaft's turn when you try to start it.
There is a motor sub forum here.
Did you happen to have and accessory belt failure.

broken belt
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1231881
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=23
https://www.oxwerkzperformance.com/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477111
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305990

https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=378

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by ctuna

Do both the camshaft's turn when you try to start it.
There is a motor sub forum here.
Did you happen to have and accessory belt failure.

broken belt
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1231881
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=23
https://www.oxwerkzperformance.com/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477111
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305990

https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=378

thanks for your response I greatly appreciate it,


so I have not taken anything apart to check. so I am not sure if the camshafts are turning or not.

I have only owned the car for 2 hours while it was running and been dead since then. however the belt looks very new so I assume yes it was replaced but I cant tell if it is because it shredded or preventative maintenance.


how do you recommend checking if the camshafts are turning and the belt shredding?

thanks again

[autoart]

you can look in the oil fill cap on top of the valve cover as its cranking.

[feuer]

Since you drained the oil and had 7qt and the belt was new when you purchased the car I think that engine swallow the old belt and clogged up the oil pick up tube. You was getting low oil pressure not low oil level warming. A lot of moving parts get damaged when oil pressure is low: main and rod bearings, the crank, the camshafts lobes, the rings on the piston score the piston liner. Is cranking fast without any signs of wanting firing up because your mechanic is probably correct. Looking through the oil cap won’t tell you anything. You need to remove the valve cover and absolutely remove the oil pan. This is a lot of work considering is xdrive. At that point I won’t even bother with this engine. Sorry.

[ctuna]

You could see the camshaft's turn through the oil filler
port. The timing could still be off due to many things
but the most likely is it ate a belt.
A leaking front main seal would be the biggest tell.

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by feuer

Since you drained the oil and had 7qt and the belt was new when you purchased the car I think that engine swallow the old belt and clogged up the oil pick up tube. You was getting low oil pressure not low oil level warming. A lot of moving parts get damaged when oil pressure is low: main and rod bearings, the crank, the camshafts lobes, the rings on the piston score the piston liner. Is cranking fast without any signs of wanting firing up because your mechanic is probably correct. Looking through the oil cap won’t tell you anything. You need to remove the valve cover and absolutely remove the oil pan. This is a lot of work considering is xdrive. At that point I won’t even bother with this engine. Sorry.

Thanks for your response I greatly appreciate it

this is the video of my car when I tried to start it. I think this meets your description of fast without trying to start


there is also no spark in any of the coils when attempting to start as well.


so I am not sure if it won't fire because of no compression or because of no spark.

based on the video do you have any guess if I can fix the car by replacing some of the internal parts of the engine (valves, camshaft, rockers, piston rings, bearings)

thanks so much

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by ctuna

You could see the camshaft's turn through the oil filler
port. The timing could still be off due to many things
but the most likely is it ate a belt.
A leaking front main seal would be the biggest tell.

Thanks for your response I really appreciate it,

so I will start with inspecting the front crank seal to see if it is leaking or not and then check if I can see the cams turning.

does having no spark a cause of timing being off?

[Biginboca]

I’m confused. You said no compression on 3 cylinders. Then in the last post right above you are talking about “no spark” and no mention of “no compression”.

If you have no compression (as in using a pressure gauge you have “no compression”) then no spark is not the thing you should worry about. Your engine is toast if you have no compression. Forget the rest. It’s toast.

I could imagine a scenario where the engine starved for oil and the rings on a few cylinders wore down enough to have no compression. I imagine this because you drove many miles on low oil pressure.

When you have a red oil light in any car you shut down immediately. Like I would shut down and coast to the side of the highway. Do not pass go. Shut down.

I’m really sorry for your troubles. I hope you meant it has “no spark” when you said “no compression”!

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I'm confused. You said no compression on 3 cylinders. Then in the last post right above you are talking about "no spark" and no mention of "no compression".

If you have no compression (as in using a pressure gauge you have "no compression") then no spark is not the thing you should worry about. Your engine is toast if you have no compression. Forget the rest. It's toast.

Hello
Yes I have both

Zero compression on 3 of the cylinders (at least) my Indy confirmed this doing a compression test using a gauge

And no spark

I was hoping the zero compression is because of broken camshaft or valves being out of timing. Which a rebuild can fix since the car ran strong till it stalled with no sounds from the engine, (no knocking or any weird sounds)

I know unfortunately I have major problem unfortunately.

[ctuna]

No spark is a problem .
but no compression is a bigger one.
How do you know the diagnosis from the guy you took
it to was correct.

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by ctuna

No spark is a problem .
but no compression is a bigger one.
How do you know the diagnosis from the guy you took
it to was correct.

hello,

yeah exactly I was hoping maybe they related like a broken camshaft also causes no spark for example, I am no expert though

I took my car to

https://europeanmotorcarsinc.com

they are the best rated European mechanics in my town however I can not guarantee they are not trying to open more work.

I have never had an engine with zero compression so I am not sure how it sounds like

this is the video I took of my car does it sound like no compression to you? it defiantly doesn't sound like a normal car

I am open to any ideas or tests thanks for all your help

[ctuna]

Anybody know what a turbo n54 sounds like with no compression.
Since I don't own one I don't .
The likely hood you would find somebody that does is pretty low.
I just know it's a really complex motor.
Did you look to see if both cam shafts were turning.

Basic checks and visual inspections then diagnostics's
would be the normal path.

Another thing on these cars once a problem is detected stop driving
immediately . The cost of the repair is exponential to the distance you drive
after the problem is detected.

Diagnostic Manuals Inpa/Ista D
https://bimmerprofs.com/diagnostics-inpa-part-1/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7x8H3pN8h1fMuF
https://carmod.ru/files/icom/istad_en.pdf
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-P-actually-do
primary links
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...9&d=1539905743
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...1&d=1590283589
https://www.wunderground.com/satellite/vis/1k/US.html

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by ctuna

Anybody know what a turbo n54 sounds like with no compression.
Since I don't own one I don't .
The likely hood you would find somebody that does is pretty low.
I just know it's a really complex motor.
Did you look to see if both cam shafts were turning.

Basic checks and visual inspections then diagnostics's
would be the normal path.

Another thing on these cars once a problem is detected stop driving
immediately . The cost of the repair is exponential to the distance you drive
after the problem is detected.

Diagnostic Manuals Inpa/Ista D
https://bimmerprofs.com/diagnostics-inpa-part-1/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7x8H3pN8h1fMuF
https://carmod.ru/files/icom/istad_en.pdf
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-P-actually-do
primary links
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...9&d=1539905743
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...1&d=1590283589
https://www.wunderground.com/satellite/vis/1k/US.html

thanks for all that info.

I recorded the view from the oil fill port while cranking. there is something spinning for sure and probably one of the camshafts, I am attaching the video.

the important part is that while cleaning the VANOS and camshaft sensor, I pulled out a rubber seal/belt thing from the VANOS entrance. it was wrapped around the timing chain and I used needle nose pliers to pull it out. some of it is still wrapper around the timing chain.

its worth mentioning the car has a new belt installed so this could be remains of the old belt or crank seal being sucked in I am not sure.

the previous owner won't reach back to me or answer any calls or texts so I cant get any info from him, I just have the Carfax with good service history


I am willing to remove oil pan and/or valve cover (I have removed a valve cover on n52 so very similar)

what is your recommendation to proceed knowing there is rubber seal and or belt in the engine wrapped around the timing chain?


thanks so much

[Biginboca]

I think at this point it’s pretty clear what happened. Sorry to hear about all this. Very crappy for you... and definitely sounds like fraudulent intent for that car to be sold with it being undisclosed that it ate a belt.

[feuer]

So I was correct! The belt went inside and clogged up the oil pick up tube. Since you don’t have good compression just cut you loses and get another engine. Previous owner new this and thus not responding to you. Also you don’t know for how long they have been driving it. You will need full rebuild. All of this cranking make it worse too. Easiest and cheapest would be to get an used engine.

[ctuna]

The cleaning process is listed in the links under
broken belt .
I can see both Cams inside my N52 .
If they drove it like this and it overheated it will
have damaged the Engine Past the point of recovery ,
Which means New Engine.

When you get bits of this stuff in the timing chain it throws
off the timing and I believe that could be the cause of the compression
problems.

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by ctuna

The cleaning process is listed in the links under
broken belt .
I can see both Cams inside my N52 .
If they drove it like this and it overheated it will
have damaged the Engine Past the point of recovery ,
Which means New Engine.

When you get bits of this stuff in the timing chain it throws
off the timing and I believe that could be the cause of the compression
problems.

thanks for your reply,

so when I first took the car the first 5 mins after leaving were amazing driving with boost and no problems at all (besides dead battery)

then low oil pressure for couple of mins and back to limp mode but oil pressure is okay

so what I am assuming happened is that the belt blocked the oil pump from operation to an extent. what I can guarantee is that the car did not overheat at all under my operation.

the engine being out of time, what components could get damaged? I know the valves are the most likely to be bent, in addition to the chain itself or the guides any other components?

I know it is hard to say and I am going to be pulling off the intake manifold and valve cover within the next 2 days but I want to know what to look for in terms of damage.

again thank you so much

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by feuer

So I was correct! The belt went inside and clogged up the oil pick up tube. Since you don’t have good compression just cut you loses and get another engine. Previous owner new this and thus not responding to you. Also you don’t know for how long they have been driving it. You will need full rebuild. All of this cranking make it worse too. Easiest and cheapest would be to get an used engine.

yeah It was a scam unfortunately, Is there anyway I can at least try to inspect the engine and replace damaged internals before getting a new engine? what components should I inspect besides for the valves and the chain and the oil pump

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by shehab_e90

yeah It was a scam unfortunately, Is there anyway I can at least try to inspect the engine and replace damaged internals before getting a new engine? what components should I inspect besides for the valves and the chain and the oil pump

You are being pretty optimistic. You ran the engine for many miles on the highway (probably 2.5-3k rpms). And everything that moves inside it was not being protected by oil. Metal on metal. Most would say it’s a lost cause. The long list of part’s that would need inspecting/replacing makes it just not worthwhile it would be cheaper and easier to swap it.

[shehab_e90]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

You are being pretty optimistic. You ran the engine for many miles on the highway (probably 2.5-3k rpms). And everything that moves inside it was not being protected by oil. Metal on metal. Most would say it’s a lost cause.

Well, it had normal oil pressure half the way and the other half it would come and off and there was no sounds from the engine at all. So I am hoping the oil pump was clogged but letting some oil through and then got out of time at the end

Can I determine if the engine is a lost cause by opening the valve cover and oil pan to see the extent of the in the hope of there was some oil pressure but very low?