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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > My Dinan Stage 1 Suspension Review on E92 Xdrive 335i and measurements.



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      03-29-2015, 07:41 PM   #23
ajsalida
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Hey Grinch, good to hear from you again. Been doing other stuff not tracking this thread. Mainly tuning, switched over from Cobb to JB4, recently stacked it with BMS backend flash this weekend. Map 5 for a while will turn meth on once it is clear it all works (map 3). So far so good.

Possible major news for XI owners, will update with more info after I do my own investigation. M3 springs fit I cars, or so somebody is claiming in the other susp section. If so, since anything fits I fits XI spring-wise, this is a whole other option for us. Was not aware of this so could be pretty interesting. May even work better for XI due to M3 V8 and XI AWD front hardware weight similarity.

For example Eibach has a pro-kit for M3's, no doubt a bit more aggressive than for regular I's. Supposedly the OEM M3 springs are 1" shorter than I springs, but stiffer. So maybe closer to BMWPS, don't know. There are also OEM ZCP (competition package) springs which are stiffer and lower than regular M3 springs. In any case the regular M3 springs will be more aggressive than I ZSP's (sport).

Found a cheap set on eBay just now for $100/shipped and bought them. Will update in a separate thread once I look into it some more.

Last edited by ajsalida; 03-29-2015 at 07:46 PM..
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      03-30-2015, 02:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Possible major news for XI owners, will update with more info after I do my own investigation. M3 springs fit I cars, or so somebody is claiming in the other susp section. If so, since anything fits I fits XI spring-wise, this is a whole other option for us. Was not aware of this so could be pretty interesting. May even work better for XI due to M3 V8 and XI AWD front hardware weight similarity.
interesting!

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Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
For example Eibach has a pro-kit for M3's, no doubt a bit more aggressive than for regular I's.
How about looking at eibachs catalog? There are a couple of springs that are made for more front axle weight (see attachment). Maybe the E91 335i Kit would be a perfekt fit for a E92 335 xdrive?
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      03-30-2015, 03:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHoncho View Post
interesting!



How about looking at eibachs catalog? There are a couple of springs that are made for more front axle weight (see attachment). Maybe the E91 335i Kit would be a perfekt fit for a E92 335 xdrive?
That is a good idea but it looks like from the specs in your chart the front springs are identical. The problem with XI is the trade off between ride height, suspension travel, and stiffness. Then front vs rear rake. Ideally you would get coil overs but in the price range you'd spend on say konis and a set of decent Eibachs, the coil overs are not very good quality IMHO. You need to spend 3x as much for example to get a TCK kit with as good a shocks (same basic koni yellows) and decent CO hardware.

Mainly I was surprised to find out some other M3 stuff would fit on our cars, and on the front this time, kind of curious to see if any of it is worth it or not. Plus a hobby of mine to some extent is messing with suspensions.

edit: looking at that chart the e91 xdrive REAR springs would probably get rid of the annoying rake on 335xi. Slightly thinner wire (.25mm) but taller by 15mm, and 3/4 more coils. I'd have to do the math to figure springs rates.

Last edited by ajsalida; 03-30-2015 at 04:01 PM..
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      03-30-2015, 04:30 PM   #26
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Good to that you're still tinkering. Looking forward to the feedback on the M3 springs. Cheers!

[QUOTE=ajsalida;17652333]Hey Grinch, good to hear from you again. Been doing other stuff not tracking this thread. Mainly tuning, switched over from Cobb to JB4, recently stacked it with BMS backend flash this weekend. Map 5 for a while will turn meth on once it is clear it all works (map 3). So far so good.

Possible major news for XI owners, will update with more info after I do my own investigation. M3 springs fit I cars, or so somebody is claiming in the other susp section. If so, since anything fits I fits XI spring-wise, this is a whole other option for us. Was not aware of this so could be pretty interesting. May even work better for XI due to M3 V8 and XI AWD front hardware weight similarity.
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      03-31-2015, 02:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
That is a good idea but it looks like from the specs in your chart the front springs are identical. The problem with XI is the trade off between ride height, suspension travel, and stiffness. Then front vs rear rake.

(...)

edit: looking at that chart the e91 xdrive REAR springs would probably get rid of the annoying rake on 335xi. Slightly thinner wire (.25mm) but taller by 15mm, and 3/4 more coils. I'd have to do the math to figure springs rates.
The E91 xdrive rear springs (335 or 330/328) are not thinner, they are a bit thicker (14,5mm instead of 14,25mm). They are also 15mm longer/taller compared to the E90/E92 springs.

Thats why I suggested the E91 335 NON-xdrive springs, since the are in between of the E91 xdrive and the all known E90/E92 NON-xdrive springs. They also are a bit stiffer in the front (12,25 instead of 12,0mm wire diameter), which helps with the additional front axle weight. Could be a good combo for all 335 E90/92 xdrive though.

The Eibach M3 springs are way to short and to stiff, similar the H&R springs just compare them, specs are:

FRONT
outer diameter: 147 mm
wire diameter: 12,75 mm
untensioned lenght: 258 mm
total numbers of coils: 4,75

REAR
outer diameter: 101 mm
wire diameter: 15,5 mm
untensioned lenght: 285 mm
total numbers of coils: 8,75
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      03-31-2015, 05:57 AM   #28
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You are right, my bad, I was looking at the table without my reading glasses!

Still, the e91 335 non-xdrive would not do much for the rear droop (if I am not reading the wrong row again). Might even be worse. Fronts are a tiny bit stiffer (.25mm thicker wire) and 10mm taller, rears only 3mm taller and same extra wire thickness (.25mm more than e92 335). So the front/rear droop might be greater vs e92 335i springs on an xdrive 335i. The xdrive 335 e91 springs might cure the rear droop (15mm taller in rear and stiffer) and still be a bit stiffer in front (same as e91 non xdrive front). Hard to tell net is only 5mm taller in rear than front over 335i. The car would just sit higher F & R with slightly better rear droop. This is puzzling to me because e91 I thought was a wagon version, meant to have more load in the rear.

I ran the ordinary eibach 335i prokit on my car (e92 335i xdrive) for a while with Koni yellows, the problem wasn't the fronts were too soft or too low, but the rear just sat too low. Far too low, like by 15mm.

Others have complained about this "rake" and not just xdrive cars. What I did was keep the fronts and use ZSP rear which are taller and approx same stiffness. I should probably put up a pic of my car at some point. Drop and F/R rake is perfect for my taste/needs. I'm hoping to get that same drop/rake with slightly higher ride height with slightly stiffer springs. Maybe the M3 OEM will do that, but it does look like e91 335 xdrive might also.

Where did you get these tables, I'd like to look at them more closely? I searched and couldn't find them.

edit: by the way, the M3 specs you provided seem to indicate the M3 springs will fit, as far as OD, which is good since my cheap eBay set of OEM M3 springs shipped last night What I am considering is swapping both springs and upper strut mounts + hardware off an M3, which is as far as I can tell uncharted territory. See the thread in suspension section for more details. The M3 strut mounts appear to be a superior design to non-M, and may have a shorter overall assembled length in addition to being stiffer. We'll see.

Last edited by ajsalida; 03-31-2015 at 06:21 AM..
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      03-31-2015, 06:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post

I ran the ordinary eibach 335i prokit on my car (e92 335i xdrive) for a while with Koni yellows, the problem wasn't the fronts were too soft or too low, but the rear just sat too low. Far too low, like by 15mm.
So we need more high/stiffness in the rear. You can also buy the Eibach front and rear spring separately, thats why I provided their dedicated part#.

Right, the E91 is the station wagon, which has also more weight at its rear axle. Thats why their rear springs are stiffer and taller. I still that think that the E91 335 NON-xdrive rear springs would be a better choice than the E91 335 xdrive springs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Where did you get these tables, I'd like to look at them more closely? I searched and couldn't find them.
I made the table by myself based on the official Eibach docs and figures, that you can find here (german):
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      03-31-2015, 07:25 AM   #30
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Good info, thanks! Nice you can order eibachs separately, I don't think that is widely known. Too late for me but maybe other can experiment.

I think the issue with the rear being too low originates with xdrive design compromises made at the factory. They try to offset the extra weight on the front axle by raising the front ride height more than they do on the rear, trying to get back to 50/50. But that makes the front sit too high aesthetically at least. Then when you lower the car evenly F/R using non-xdrive springs, the rear sits too low appearance-wise. The lower you go the worse it looks.

Mainly this stems from the front lower spring perch on xdrive is higher WRT hub center than the non xdrive. So either you have to drop the front more or drop the rear less by approx 12-15mm. I prefer dropping the rear less as the front is a bit short on suspension travel. Note this is true even though there is more weight on the front axle, you'd think the front would drop more than non xdrive all other things equal. But the fact that the front spring perch is higher negates some or all of that, plus not all the extra weight in front is sprung weight, and there is a transfer case more towards the rear.

So as far as extra xdrive sprung weight that act on the springs, in front you have the diff, in back the transfer case, in the middle the extra driveshaft. Pretty even. You then have heavier hubs, CV joints, axles, beefier control arms etc. in front, but most of that is unsprung weight. Which brings up an interesting issue. I suspect most shocks are light in rebound WRT to controlling extra front unsprung weight on xdrives. Which is a secret reason why I favor Konis Yellows with their adjustable rebound.

Last edited by ajsalida; 03-31-2015 at 07:44 AM..
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      03-31-2015, 10:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Good info, thanks! Nice you can order eibachs separately, I don't think that is widely known. Too late for me but maybe other can experiment.
You're welcome! I was wondering why nobody looked ist up at the Eibach catalog and tried the E91 springs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Mainly this stems from the front lower spring perch on xdrive is higher WRT hub center than the non xdrive. So either you have to drop the front more or drop the rear less by approx 12-15mm. I prefer dropping the rear less as the front is a bit short on suspension travel.
I guess thats what most of us prefer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Note this is true even though there is more weight on the front axle, you'd think the front would drop more than non xdrive all other things equal. But the fact that the front spring perch is higher negates some or all of that, plus not all the extra weight in front is sprung weight, and there is a transfer case more towards the rear.

So as far as extra xdrive sprung weight that act on the springs, in front you have the diff, in back the transfer case, in the middle the extra driveshaft. Pretty even. You then have heavier hubs, CV joints, axles, beefier control arms etc. in front, but most of that is unsprung weight. Which brings up an interesting issue. I suspect most shocks are light in rebound WRT to controlling extra front unsprung weight on xdrives. Which is a secret reason why I favor Konis Yellows with their adjustable rebound.
That's interesting! The Konis Yellow/Sport (8741-1535LSport + 8741-1535RSport?) are a adjustable from the engine bay, right?
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      03-31-2015, 11:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BigHoncho View Post
That's interesting! The Konis Yellow/Sport (8741-1535LSport + 8741-1535RSport?) are a adjustable from the engine bay, right?
correct
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      08-26-2016, 03:14 AM   #33
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Anyone have problems with the rear scraping? I'm not sure if it's the tires or what but if I hit a bump or a dip that makes the back go down some it sound like it scrapped the tires. Thanks
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      01-02-2017, 01:09 AM   #34
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Any updates?
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      01-24-2017, 05:02 AM   #35
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I have the same setup and have been running it for about 20,000 miles now. 335xi E92, Koni struts front, Dinan rears, Dinan springs, UUC sway f/r, and M3 subframe bushings. To those that care a lot about the drop/appearance it still has a "rake" with wheel gap in the front and rears being tucked. The handling improvement has been superb and the ride is still comfortable (no run flats). It is a more refined, better handling/performing ride than stock. Still happy with it and not thinking about switching to anything else - no regrets compared to other options I was considering or had previously on my car.
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      10-23-2018, 10:51 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
You are right, my bad, I was looking at the table without my reading glasses!

Still, the e91 335 non-xdrive would not do much for the rear droop (if I am not reading the wrong row again). Might even be worse. Fronts are a tiny bit stiffer (.25mm thicker wire) and 10mm taller, rears only 3mm taller and same extra wire thickness (.25mm more than e92 335). So the front/rear droop might be greater vs e92 335i springs on an xdrive 335i. The xdrive 335 e91 springs might cure the rear droop (15mm taller in rear and stiffer) and still be a bit stiffer in front (same as e91 non xdrive front). Hard to tell net is only 5mm taller in rear than front over 335i. The car would just sit higher F & R with slightly better rear droop. This is puzzling to me because e91 I thought was a wagon version, meant to have more load in the rear.

I ran the ordinary eibach 335i prokit on my car (e92 335i xdrive) for a while with Koni yellows, the problem wasn't the fronts were too soft or too low, but the rear just sat too low. Far too low, like by 15mm.

Others have complained about this "rake" and not just xdrive cars. What I did was keep the fronts and use ZSP rear which are taller and approx same stiffness. I should probably put up a pic of my car at some point. Drop and F/R rake is perfect for my taste/needs. I'm hoping to get that same drop/rake with slightly higher ride height with slightly stiffer springs. Maybe the M3 OEM will do that, but it does look like e91 335 xdrive might also.

Where did you get these tables, I'd like to look at them more closely? I searched and couldn't find them.

edit: by the way, the M3 specs you provided seem to indicate the M3 springs will fit, as far as OD, which is good since my cheap eBay set of OEM M3 springs shipped last night What I am considering is swapping both springs and upper strut mounts + hardware off an M3, which is as far as I can tell uncharted territory. See the thread in suspension section for more details. The M3 strut mounts appear to be a superior design to non-M, and may have a shorter overall assembled length in addition to being stiffer. We'll see.

OLD post but....
Did anything ever come of your M3 Spring installation? Searched everywhere but cant find any results...
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      12-25-2018, 12:31 AM   #37
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havent seen him post on here in a while but pretty sure that he did discuss that the M3 springs did not fit non M e9x vehicles
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      09-30-2020, 03:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Molarz View Post
Here are the pics..... and the scraping noise happened to go away once it got warmer so maybe you were right AJ.... it could have been the snow?

First pic Stock suspension

Second pic and on... Dinan suspension
What all suspension when into this car ?
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