E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > SIB Number for Priming Oil System



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-19-2019, 11:48 AM   #23
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
I wonder why the S55 and S58 have two turbochargers. Alright then...Move on. Not what this discussion is about. N54 fail too. Anyhow, OFHG and OTHG replacement isn't any different that an oil change. How many engines have reportedly failed right after an oil change? None? I'm just curious.
It really makes me so puzzled. Assuming same bearings and same housing and so on.. why do we see this with n55 only.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 11:50 AM   #24
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
Yes because N54's don't fail on the daily, And newsflash, the N54 has two turbos to an E series N55's small single twinscroll. And why noobs think corrections are a bad thing is beyond me.
Yes they do fail. So what i am saying is since i am already dealing with "small" fails. Id rather at least not worry about engine damage. Which i am yet to see a n54 lock up after routine maintenance.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 11:54 AM   #25
TheGoodTheBadTheUgly
Captain
250
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pladi View Post
Lol thats my buddy its all good. I bet if we all met in person we would have a more civilized conversation. But forums are like this. Everyone has an opinion about something. The thing that links us all is we are all pationate about these cars. We would not be here arguing with strangers otherwise.
I mean we wouldn't be very productive if there is no discord at all. It is needed and I enjoy the spices that he adds to the mix haha.
__________________
TOTALED | 2011 E90 335i xDrive - BMS Cold Air Intake - ETS Charge Pipe - ETS 7" FMIC - MHD Stage 2+ - GFB DV+ - PE Mod - VRSF Catless Downpipe - xDelete - xHP Stage 3
2015 E84 X1 35i M-Sport
Appreciate 1
Pladi717.00
      02-19-2019, 11:56 AM   #26
TheGoodTheBadTheUgly
Captain
250
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pladi View Post
It really makes me so puzzled. Assuming same bearings and same housing and so on.. why do we see this with n55 only.
I didn't spend a lot of time on the F series forum. Is it the same deal with their N55s or only E series?
__________________
TOTALED | 2011 E90 335i xDrive - BMS Cold Air Intake - ETS Charge Pipe - ETS 7" FMIC - MHD Stage 2+ - GFB DV+ - PE Mod - VRSF Catless Downpipe - xDelete - xHP Stage 3
2015 E84 X1 35i M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 11:59 AM   #27
feuer
Major General
feuer's Avatar
United_States
4275
Rep
9,205
Posts

Drives: wife crazy!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pladi View Post
It really makes me so puzzled. Assuming same bearings and same housing and so on.. why do we see this with n55 only.
Is not only n55. Re-read my post on the other thread. At the shop we had about an equal amount of failed n54 vs n55s. Yes, I know, that isn't the best comparison either because n55s are newer, n54s are modded more aggressively blah blah...If you ask me both fail at equal rate from what I have seen excluding forum threads.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 12:00 PM   #28
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
I didn't spend a lot of time on the F series forum. Is it the same deal with their N55s or only E series?
That question opens the Pandora's box here and witha lot of spices hahahaha

My answer is no. We are the only lucky ones that see more of this. But of course some will disagree. Usually people that have these motors will disagree.
Appreciate 1
      02-19-2019, 12:02 PM   #29
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Is not only n55. Re-read my post on the other thread. At the shop we had about an equal amount of failed n54 vs n55s. Yes, I know, that isn't the best comparison either because n55s are newer, n54s are modded more aggressively blah blah...If you ask me both fail at equal rate from what I have seen excluding forum threads.
I trust ur opinion most you know that. But its so odd that the forum does not have that correlation.

Ud think we would see one case...
Appreciate 1
feuer4274.50
      02-19-2019, 12:20 PM   #30
feuer
Major General
feuer's Avatar
United_States
4275
Rep
9,205
Posts

Drives: wife crazy!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pladi View Post
I trust ur opinion most you know that. But its so odd that the forum does not have that correlation.

Ud think we would see one case...
Case of n54 failing after OFHG replacement? I had one last year. N54 without oil cooler came in. Installation required different OFH. Engine failed after about 200 miles afterwards. Has roughly 115k at the time. Oil cooler was primed. OFH wasn't. I have done many many oil changes and OFHG/OTHG replacements and engines haven't failed. I personally don't see correlation there. I alsi had n54 in 535xi and 335i that broke oil cooler line and most oil sprayed out and those engines are still running today, roughly 150k each, at least year has past since repairs.
Appreciate 1
Pladi717.00
      02-19-2019, 12:31 PM   #31
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Case of n54 failing after OFHG replacement? I had one last year. N54 without oil cooler came in. Installation required different OFH. Engine failed after about 200 miles afterwards. Has roughly 115k at the time. Oil cooler was primed. OFH wasn't. I have done many many oil changes and OFHG/OTHG replacements and engines haven't failed. I personally don't see correlation there. I alsi had n54 in 535xi and 335i that broke oil cooler line and most oil sprayed out and those engines are still running today, roughly 150k each, at least year has past since repairs.
Feuer ultimate question for ya then

Do you wanna buy my car ! hahahah
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 12:31 PM   #32
rich_mane
First Lieutenant
rich_mane's Avatar
139
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Case of n54 failing after OFHG replacement? I had one last year. N54 without oil cooler came in. Installation required different OFH. Engine failed after about 200 miles afterwards. Has roughly 115k at the time. Oil cooler was primed. OFH wasn't. I have done many many oil changes and OFHG/OTHG replacements and engines haven't failed. I personally don't see correlation there. I alsi had n54 in 535xi and 335i that broke oil cooler line and most oil sprayed out and those engines are still running today, roughly 150k each, at least year has past since repairs.
I too have done many of these without priming the ofhg and none of them failed. Until of course I went to do it on my own car this weekend. I noticed that under 3k RPMs I had no noticeable problems driving. As soon as I touched 4k it stalled and locked. 108k on the motor. Never had any misfires or problems before the ofhg change, datalogs looked good with minimal timing corrections whenever I logged. Literally not one code stored in the DME. Oil wasnt drained so oil pump was never dry. Really not sure how I can go from no problems to a seized engine in <5 miles after the repair. Really wish there was a concrete explanation but I guess air pocket is the probably the most reasonable. I had it idling for at least 30 minutes after the repair thinking whatever air pocket might be in there would work itself out. Guess I was wrong.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 12:33 PM   #33
lwgrenier
First Lieutenant
United_States
117
Rep
255
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 335i XDrive
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

The SIB number, guys, the SIB number
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 12:39 PM   #34
TheGoodTheBadTheUgly
Captain
250
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwgrenier View Post
The SIB number, guys, the SIB number
Poor guy hahaha everyone going in all sorts of directions. Did you buy anything yet?
__________________
TOTALED | 2011 E90 335i xDrive - BMS Cold Air Intake - ETS Charge Pipe - ETS 7" FMIC - MHD Stage 2+ - GFB DV+ - PE Mod - VRSF Catless Downpipe - xDelete - xHP Stage 3
2015 E84 X1 35i M-Sport

Last edited by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly; 02-19-2019 at 12:44 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 01:06 PM   #35
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
I too have done many of these without priming the ofhg and none of them failed. Until of course I went to do it on my own car this weekend. I noticed that under 3k RPMs I had no noticeable problems driving. As soon as I touched 4k it stalled and locked. 108k on the motor. Never had any misfires or problems before the ofhg change, datalogs looked good with minimal timing corrections whenever I logged. Literally not one code stored in the DME. Oil wasnt drained so oil pump was never dry. Really not sure how I can go from no problems to a seized engine in <5 miles after the repair. Really wish there was a concrete explanation but I guess air pocket is the probably the most reasonable. I had it idling for at least 30 minutes after the repair thinking whatever air pocket might be in there would work itself out. Guess I was wrong.
Honestly even the priming procedure, i am not sure how much different that would have been.. hard to say
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 01:13 PM   #36
TheGoodTheBadTheUgly
Captain
250
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
I too have done many of these without priming the ofhg and none of them failed. Until of course I went to do it on my own car this weekend. I noticed that under 3k RPMs I had no noticeable problems driving. As soon as I touched 4k it stalled and locked. 108k on the motor. Never had any misfires or problems before the ofhg change, datalogs looked good with minimal timing corrections whenever I logged. Literally not one code stored in the DME. Oil wasnt drained so oil pump was never dry. Really not sure how I can go from no problems to a seized engine in <5 miles after the repair. Really wish there was a concrete explanation but I guess air pocket is the probably the most reasonable. I had it idling for at least 30 minutes after the repair thinking whatever air pocket might be in there would work itself out. Guess I was wrong.
How could the air pocket get out unless you drain all of the system. It's sealed to retain pressure isn't it? Even if it goes out of the pump it would remain in the system, but I think it's just sitting in the pump.

I did OFHG by myself and wasn't even aware that could happen. I feel damn lucky now.

The only thing I can think about right now might be the oil pump is stuck in a suction loop with air in it. Anyone knows what type of pump it is?
__________________
TOTALED | 2011 E90 335i xDrive - BMS Cold Air Intake - ETS Charge Pipe - ETS 7" FMIC - MHD Stage 2+ - GFB DV+ - PE Mod - VRSF Catless Downpipe - xDelete - xHP Stage 3
2015 E84 X1 35i M-Sport

Last edited by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly; 02-19-2019 at 01:23 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 01:18 PM   #37
bbnks2
Colonel
1207
Rep
2,025
Posts

Drives: 135i N55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
Ok but I search and search and barely find N54 fails. Also join facebook group and surprise no daily failures either. Like I wanna believe you guys (well not really since I have a N54 haha) but I don't find anything compared to these N55 fails, especially right after OFHG in particular.
Not sure what you're searching but there are 10x as many threads about N54 failures when I google than N55 lol... N54 production run was also much more limited than the N55 engine production. BMW didn't exactly put N54s into every car model they made like they did with the N55.

Oh then there is this 7 pages of carnage: https://bmw.spool "remove me" street.com/threads/raise-your-hand-if-youve-blown-up-an-n54.2157/
Appreciate 1
feuer4274.50
      02-19-2019, 01:26 PM   #38
rich_mane
First Lieutenant
rich_mane's Avatar
139
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwgrenier View Post
The SIB number, guys, the SIB number
SIB 11 09 15 is what my BMW friend just told me
Appreciate 2
lwgrenier117.00
feuer4274.50
      02-19-2019, 01:28 PM   #39
mxchris727
Captain
mxchris727's Avatar
United_States
193
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: '03 M5, '06 325i, '12 M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Westport, CT

iTrader: (0)

I think that "priming" procedure is BS for the OFHG. I'm sure it's beneficial if you replace rod bearings or something, but the engine will "prime" oil pressure much quicker while idling then attempting to crank it for 30 seconds.

As for the N54, it has many more ancillary component failures (injectors, turbos, etc...) but the engines themselves never fail unless it's caused by one of those components. For example, an old injector leaking fuel into the oil causing it to dilute thus spinning a bearing. This OFHG engine failure topic has never come up on the n54 forums.

My .02 is to buy an oil pressure gauge and use it right after the repair. With the stock pressure switch only tripping whilst under 7PSI, it's useless.
__________________
BMW GT1 (INPA, DIS, WinKFP, ect..), ISTA/P & /D is up and running! PM me if you want to stop by and code your car.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #40
Pladi
Lieutenant Colonel
Pladi's Avatar
Canada
717
Rep
1,753
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
How could the air pocket get out unless you drain all of the system. It's sealed to retain pressure isn't it? Even if it goes out of the pump it would remain in the system, but I think it's just sitting in the pump.

I did OFHG by myself and wasn't even aware that could happen. I feel damn lucky now.

The only thing I can think about right now might be the oil pump is stuck in a suction loop with air in it. Anyone knows what type of pump it is?
thats kinda been my theory with the air lock.

Next time i do this, if i do, i will be crank priming for a bit then draining as well.

then crank again. Taking ZERO chances.
Appreciate 1
      02-19-2019, 01:32 PM   #41
rich_mane
First Lieutenant
rich_mane's Avatar
139
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.FL

iTrader: (1)

^^i did not realize the stock pressure switch doesn't show a problem until that low of pressure. That's insane. I really wish I would have logged right after doing my ofhg to see what kind of oil pressure numbers it was reading.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 02:10 PM   #42
Welcome to NBA Jam
Is it the shoes!?
Welcome to NBA Jam's Avatar
3884
Rep
5,113
Posts

Drives: (Sold) 2011 E92 335i ZMP 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
SIB 11 09 15 is what my BMW friend just told me
Thanks. I can't find any information on the global interwebs. Can your friend scan it by chance?
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 02:19 PM   #43
bbnks2
Colonel
1207
Rep
2,025
Posts

Drives: 135i N55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxchris727 View Post
I think that "priming" procedure is BS for the OFHG. I'm sure it's beneficial if you replace rod bearings or something, but the engine will "prime" oil pressure much quicker while idling then attempting to crank it for 30 seconds.
I can agree with this, but again, you can't deny that there seems to be some kind of trend between doing an OFHG and then an hour later the engine seizing. Maybe these people are just pinching the gasket or something allowing fluids to mix? Doesn't make much sense because like you said you can dry crank a brand new rebuilt engine without priming it and it will build oil pressure instantly upon startup. It's a positive displacement oil pump... It's still best practice to prime the system while watching a gauge to ensure the oil pump is working but residual oil (or bearing lube in engine building case) should be enough for that split second it takes for the oil pump to build pressure. And again, an OFHG job does not even bleed the oil pump. The only thing I can see is that the "air" could cause oil to flow to the bypass valve and back to the pan instead of feeding through the block?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxchris727 View Post
As for the N54, it has many more ancillary component failures (injectors, turbos, etc...) but the engines themselves never fail unless it's caused by one of those components. For example, an old injector leaking fuel into the oil causing it to dilute thus spinning a bearing. This OFHG engine failure topic has never come up on the n54 forums.
What if I told you that I just replaced leaky injectors on my N55 at 115-120k miles? I've been replacing 1 per month basically. It happens on N55s too. Can't rule out fuel dilution just because we aren't driving N54s... Also to note: the recent -60f weather in Chicago resulted in BMW dealers reporting N55s seizing up because of "frozen oil." Yes, the N55 is apparently so effective at separating moisture, oil, and fuel from blow-by in the crankcase that it ends up back into the oil instead of being sent into the intake to be burnt (n54 valves get nasty quick). Usually this blow-by would evaporate out of the hot oil temps our cars run at but frequent short trips in this type of weather can apparently cause quiet a bit of oil contamination. Enough that the oil was freezing anyway in -30 to -60f temps and starving the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxchris727 View Post
My .02 is to buy an oil pressure gauge and use it right after the repair. with the stock pressure switch only tripping whilst under 7PSI, it's useless.
N55 does not have an oil pressure "switch" like the N54. It has a map controlled electronic control valve. DME requests oil pressure via wgdc on the valve pressure. If request isn't met it throws a code. It's a "psi over time" differential that triggers the CEL not a set switch pressure. The sensor on the OFHG is an actual oil pressure sensor instead of a switch.

Next time you do an OFHG job just load up MHD and see what your oil pressure is lol. See what it is as soon as the car turns over. Log it even. Every morning my oil pressure shows 14.x psi. Seems like pressure is maintained somehow. When I rebuilt my engine it showed 0psi until I cranked on it. Or, maybe that 14.x psi is just reading absolute pressure? I am not sure on that.

Last edited by bbnks2; 02-20-2019 at 07:13 AM..
Appreciate 2
      02-19-2019, 02:32 PM   #44
rich_mane
First Lieutenant
rich_mane's Avatar
139
Rep
227
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam View Post
Thanks. I can't find any information on the global interwebs. Can your friend scan it by chance?
This looks like a general BMW SIB, not specific to any motor.

Appreciate 1
lwgrenier117.00
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST