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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > M3 rear guide rods - feedback?



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      01-22-2020, 10:04 AM   #45
Tambohamilton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
omg I don't know. Why don't you tell us? I'm obviously clueless.
Why the sarcasm?

If you don't know, that's fine - nor do I! If you do know, you could tell us, or leave it be...up to you.

I think I've been quite clear in asking specifically what I'm unclear on, but you haven't provided anything further than 'flex is bad', essentially. No harm done, I'm not upset.

Peace.
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      01-22-2020, 10:10 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Why the sarcasm?

If you don't know, that's fine - nor do I! If you do know, you could tell us, or leave it be...up to you.

I think I've been quite clear in asking specifically what I'm unclear on, but you haven't provided anything further than 'flex is bad', essentially. No harm done, I'm not upset.

Peace.
Oh, so you want to know the specific scientific method used that lead to the conclusion? With measurements? Some numbers. Some formulas. Would you understand that? More sarcasm yeah? Flex is bad. Accept it.
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      01-22-2020, 11:00 AM   #47
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Flex is bad, but what is it bad for? The flex in the bushings would absorb some of the torque energy and thus not immediately translate this to wheels. But that energy will be released eventually as the bushings go back to normal state. With a brace there will be no flex at that end (although there will be more in the engine/tranny mounts) so whatever torque is coming through the diff will go directly to the wheels (minus a bit of twist in the shafts and whatever flex there is in the subframe bushings).

a
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      01-23-2020, 10:10 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Oh, so you want to know the specific scientific method used that lead to the conclusion? With measurements? Some numbers. Some formulas. Would you understand that? More sarcasm yeah? Flex is bad. Accept it.
Ah yes, I forgot; I'm stupid because I keep asking questions.

Yep, numbers, formulas, diagrams would be great. Thanks for offering! I'm looking forward to not understanding them.

Flex is bad? You better pump your tyres up to max then (with water, not nasty squishy air), and take the padding off your seat, and replace your springs with straight steel rods, and swap to solid engine and gearbox mounts. Don't forget to solid mount your diff too!

Come on now. I asked a question, you didn't answer it. Let's leave it at that.
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      01-23-2020, 12:23 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Ah yes, I forgot; I'm stupid because I keep asking questions.

Yep, numbers, formulas, diagrams would be great. Thanks for offering! I'm looking forward to not understanding them.

Flex is bad? You better pump your tyres up to max then (with water, not nasty squishy air), and take the padding off your seat, and replace your springs with straight steel rods, and swap to solid engine and gearbox mounts. Don't forget to solid mount your diff too!

Come on now. I asked a question, you didn't answer it. Let's leave it at that.
I'm working on all of this for you, just will take a little to adjust the laboratory for the diagrams you requesting, as I wasn't anticipating that you will ask for them too.
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      01-24-2020, 07:48 AM   #50
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Guys, play nice!

Speaking of playing, check out the attached from one of the RC boards. It had a good discussion of how the forces operate - with pictures - and on how to address it.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial...xperiment.html

a
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      01-27-2020, 10:13 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
So it is normal that there is some play in that ball joint? I can move it as drawn in the picture below. is it what you meant by radial play? I am a bit relieved.
Attachment 2221684
My (not yet installed) TRW M3 guide rods do the same. I was surprised at first but remembered that it was a ball joint. Curious how it'll work in conjunction with other stock arms.

I'm also considering Manzo toe arms since they're cheap, but not sure what there is to gain other than adjustability.
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      01-27-2020, 10:22 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
My (not yet installed) TRW M3 guide rods do the same. I was surprised at first but remembered that it was a ball joint. Curious how it'll work in conjunction with other stock arms.

I'm also considering Manzo toe arms since they're cheap, but not sure what there is to gain other than adjustability.
I have crazy inner wear on my passenger rear tire. Someone had recommended that I change the toe arms because they can help with that. I haven't changed the toe arms yet.

If you don't have any crazy inner wear, then I've read that the guide rods are the only thing that make noticeable difference. Everything else for rear is just a waste of money and time.
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      02-15-2020, 02:16 PM   #53
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I installed the M3 guide rods and I'm surprised at the difference they made. It's hard to put into words, but the rear feels more solid and connected under acceleration and braking. The rear also feels less harsh and crashy, possibly due to the lack of bushing windup with the inner balljoint? Overall, I'm very happy with the upgrade, especially considering the low cost of the Centric-boxed TRW arms found by Soravia. My stock guide rods had 130k km on them. I'm considering Manzo toe arms next.

My other suspension mods again, for reference:
- 235/45R17 Pirelli Pzero AS+
- Sport springs w/ Bilstein B4
- 28mm front sway bar
- UR front strut brace
- front M3 tension struts
- rear poly sway bar bushings
- rear poly subframe inserts
- Monroe rear upper shock mounts
- front + rear M3 subframe bracing

Installation is pretty straightforward. Remove the sway bar from the endlink and use an extension to access the carrier mounting bolt. During reinstallation, lift the carrier up to line up the guide rod with the subframe mount. I reused all hardware with blue threadlocker. Carrier mount takes 100 Nm+90 and subframe mount is 100 Nm - torque the carrier mount with the suspension loaded

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...struts/PgKCl4Q
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...struts/5g0QYZ7

Album:
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Last edited by freedomfries; Yesterday at 12:47 PM..
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      02-15-2020, 03:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
I installed the M3 guide rods and I'm surprised at the difference they made. It's hard to put into words, but the rear feels more solid and connected under acceleration and braking. The rear also feels less harsh and crashy, possibly due to the lack of bushing windup with the inner balljoint? Overall, I'm very happy with the upgrade, especially considering the low cost

Exactly my experience with them. In the famous thread on rear M arms on the 1er site, fe1rx calculated the effective reduction in spring rate of both M arms was about 70 lbs if I recall correctly. so we got a slight drop in spring rate but more control.
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      Yesterday, 03:28 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Exactly my experience with them. In the famous thread on rear M arms on the 1er site, fe1rx calculated the effective reduction in spring rate of both M arms was about 70 lbs if I recall correctly. so we got a slight drop in spring rate but more control.
The stock bushings contribute to 35 lb/in wheel rate or 109 lb/in spring rate. Replacing both the guide rod and toe arm bushings with bearings decreases the wheel rate to 23 lb/in or 72 lb/in spring rate (37 lb/in decrease in spring rate). I don't know what practical effect this will have though.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...80&postcount=1

There's probably something to gain from upgrading the arm body too since BMW redesigned the stock arm at some point:


Last edited by freedomfries; Yesterday at 03:50 PM..
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      Yesterday, 08:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
I have crazy inner wear on my passenger rear tire. Someone had recommended that I change the toe arms because they can help with that. I haven't changed the toe arms yet.

If you don't have any crazy inner wear, then I've read that the guide rods are the only thing that make noticeable difference. Everything else for rear is just a waste of money and time.

Well, if bushing/ball joint is worn, can certainly cause accelerated tire abrasion/wear. Replace as needed.

The prob is, throws alignment outta wack. Or, your alignment is outta wack but arms are good - check & adjust as needed.

I can recommend M3 Camber Arms but you'll need longer toe arms....and a LSD is magic sauce that should def be applied. -2.5 camber all paws will put a lasting grin on yer mug....yep!


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      Yesterday, 12:53 PM   #57
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I have spare unused 10" 60mm ID springs that will restore your loss spring rate. They are 574 ft-/b Eibach brand. Will need spring perch and isolators. Check my wagon thread in AWD forum.
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      Yesterday, 12:55 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
There's probably something to gain from upgrading the arm body too since BMW redesigned the stock arm at some point:

Not on my 2011 328i xDrive wagon. Is it for F30? They share basic design with E9x
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      Yesterday, 03:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soravia View Post
Not on my 2011 328i xDrive wagon. Is it for F30? They share basic design with E9x
The new part numbers (33326782237, 33326782238) started in June 2009 according to RealOEM, but apparently wasn't used until the 2013 335is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
The new ones you received were developed for the 335is and are more rigid. I'd use those instead of oem and replace both sides.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...54&postcount=2


https://pkautoparts.com/2013-bmw-335...-1018-pk007663

The "335is design" still uses a bushing at the subframe mount though. If going through the effort, M3 guide rods are still the way to go.

Last edited by freedomfries; Today at 12:00 AM..
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