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      07-24-2023, 01:42 PM   #3081
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
At some point the insurance companies are going to chime in (raise rates) due to EV vehicle fires and structure fires caused by EV's and battery storage systems.
I fully expect that to happen. Reminds me of when I got insurance on my boat. One of the questions my carrier asked is what fuel my inboard uses. Fortunately, for me, my inboard is a diesel. Hence a much lower rate over if the inboard is gas powered.
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      07-24-2023, 03:09 PM   #3082
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
At some point the insurance companies are going to chime in (raise rates) due to EV vehicle fires and structure fires caused by EV's and battery storage systems.
Still interested in seeing any data that shows this is a problem worth worrying about or big enough to change rates.

Here's one showing the opposite. 25 fires/100k sold for EV's to 1530 fires /100k sold for ICE's -

Quote:
Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-e...est-car-fires/
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      07-24-2023, 03:14 PM   #3083
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Member of Parliament: Electric Car Owners Should Pay More in Insurance to Cover Cost of Fighting Battery Fires
Smith noted that fire services have had to spend seven-figure sums on submersion tanks for fires involving lithium-ion batteries, which present a unique challenge to fire brigades, according to a report by the Telegraph.

“It doesn’t take a genius to work out that a seven-figure capital expenditure on one of these things, by the time every car on the road is battery-electric, even if you have 0.1 percent setting themselves on fire you’re going to need more than one tank,” Smith said.

The Member of the UK Parliament added that taxpayers would end up footing the bill for the fire equipment, but that insurance companies should be the ones responsible for doing so.
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      07-24-2023, 03:16 PM   #3084
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Electric vehicles are exploding from water damage after Hurricane Ian, Florida official warns
"There’s a ton of EVs disabled from Ian. As those batteries corrode, fires start," Patronis tweeted Thursday. "That’s a new challenge that our firefighters haven’t faced before. At least on this kind of scale."

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/el...-hurricane-ian
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      07-24-2023, 03:21 PM   #3085
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Member of Parliament: Electric Car Owners Should Pay More in Insurance to Cover Cost of Fighting Battery Fires
Smith noted that fire services have had to spend seven-figure sums on submersion tanks for fires involving lithium-ion batteries, which present a unique challenge to fire brigades, according to a report by the Telegraph.

“It doesn’t take a genius to work out that a seven-figure capital expenditure on one of these things, by the time every car on the road is battery-electric, even if you have 0.1 percent setting themselves on fire you’re going to need more than one tank,” Smith said.

The Member of the UK Parliament added that taxpayers would end up footing the bill for the fire equipment, but that insurance companies should be the ones responsible for doing so.
Report I posted above shows the EV fire rate at .025%. 4 times this number would be .1%, 40 times this number would be 1%.

Your theory is this number will cause insurance rates to go up but I haven't seen anything to show the extent of the problem. Post above has the guy guess the rate and the cost.
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      07-24-2023, 03:23 PM   #3086
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Electric vehicles are exploding from water damage after Hurricane Ian, Florida official warns
"There’s a ton of EVs disabled from Ian. As those batteries corrode, fires start," Patronis tweeted Thursday. "That’s a new challenge that our firefighters haven’t faced before. At least on this kind of scale."

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/el...-hurricane-ian
Nice headline grabbing article but " a ton of disabled EV's" - what does this mean? Again, any data to prove anything?

EDIT - In the days after Hurricane Ian made landfall in Florida, firefighters near Naples put out six blazes in electric vehicles that had been submerged in seawater.

https://www.eenews.net/articles/why-...s%20a%20first.

Quote:
He and other EV advocates pointed to a report from AutoInsuranceEZ published this year. Researchers with the car insurance quote provider examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and found that there are roughly 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold, and 1,530 gas car fires for every 100,000 internal combustion vehicles that are sold.
Seems like they are catching fire at a mush smaller rate than ICE's (rate above is 60 times higher for ICE's than EV's)
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      07-24-2023, 03:34 PM   #3087
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Interesting article with a lot of recent data.

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car
According to online brokerage Policygenius, the average U.S. monthly EV insurance payment in 2023 is $206, 27% more than for a combustion-engine model.

According to Bankrate, an online publisher of financial content, U.S. insurers know that "if even a minor accident results in damage to the battery pack ... the cost to replace this key component may exceed $15,000."

A replacement battery for a Tesla Model 3 can cost up to $20,000, for a vehicle that retails at around $43,000 but depreciates quickly over time.

Andy Keane, UK commercial motor product manager at French insurer AXA (AXAF.PA), said expensive replacement batteries "may sometimes make replacing a battery unfeasible."

EV battery damage makes up just a few percent of Allianz's motor insurance claims, but 8% of claims costs in Germany, Lauterwasser said. Germany's insurers pool data on vehicle claims data and adjust premium rates annually.

"If the cost for a certain model gets higher it will raise premium levels because the rating goes up," Lauterwasser said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/

I really don't care if EV buys over look the trajectory of the data. They should have the right to have what ever they want in their garage. I just don't want ICE drivers pay for their infatuation.
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      07-24-2023, 03:49 PM   #3088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Interesting article with a lot of recent data.

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car
According to online brokerage Policygenius, the average U.S. monthly EV insurance payment in 2023 is $206, 27% more than for a combustion-engine model.

According to Bankrate, an online publisher of financial content, U.S. insurers know that "if even a minor accident results in damage to the battery pack ... the cost to replace this key component may exceed $15,000."

A replacement battery for a Tesla Model 3 can cost up to $20,000, for a vehicle that retails at around $43,000 but depreciates quickly over time.

Andy Keane, UK commercial motor product manager at French insurer AXA (AXAF.PA), said expensive replacement batteries "may sometimes make replacing a battery unfeasible."

EV battery damage makes up just a few percent of Allianz's motor insurance claims, but 8% of claims costs in Germany, Lauterwasser said. Germany's insurers pool data on vehicle claims data and adjust premium rates annually.

"If the cost for a certain model gets higher it will raise premium levels because the rating goes up," Lauterwasser said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/

I really don't care if EV buys over look the trajectory of the data. They should have the right to have what ever they want in their garage. I just don't want ICE drivers pay for their infatuation.
If the high cost of repair of a car you don't own bothers you so should every Ferrari as they come with huge repair costs after pretty simple accidents.

From your link -
Quote:
While some automakers like Ford Motor Co (F.N) and General Motors Co (GM.N) said they have made battery packs easier to repair, Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has taken the opposite tack
If having a battery that is difficult to repair is a serious problem then what Ford and GM are taking will eventually show in insurance rates and the market as a whole. A repairable battery gets rid of a lot of the fears/possible costs in buying an EV.
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      07-24-2023, 03:54 PM   #3089
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
So you are charging when carbon sources in your grid are at their peak? Is that because you don't care about the climate, or is there some other reason?
lol, cuz like most people, who don't sit around complaining about EV's all day, that is the ideal time to charge the vehicle if you want to wake up to a full charge...Most people are out and about or at work during the day and off peak charging times are after 9pm ...I have net metering solar, so it doesnt really matter much to me, but it still helps to try and use less electricity during peak hours of 3pm -9pm
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      07-24-2023, 03:59 PM   #3090
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
lol, cuz like most people, who don't sit around complaining about EV's all day, that is the ideal time to charge the vehicle if you want to wake up to a full charge...Most people are out and about or at work during the day and off peak charging times are after 9pm ...I have net metering solar, so it doesnt really matter much to me, but it still helps to try and use less electricity during peak hours of 3pm -9pm
Amen. My power company gives me a discount to charge between 9 pm and 5 am. So, I do.
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      07-24-2023, 03:59 PM   #3091
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I wonder what the carbon footprint is of the company from where she sources her clothes.
Probably India where it's through the roof
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      07-24-2023, 04:00 PM   #3092
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The BMW iX5 Hydrogen proves that batteries aren’t the only answer

Because it uses electric motors, the iX5 Hydrogen drives just like any other EV, but with a couple of major improvements. The range does not decrease in cold weather, as it does with battery electric vehicles (BEV), and it is not hampered when towing a trailer either.

As for weight, BMW says hydrogen cars are lighter than an equivalent battery-powered car – due to the lack of a huge battery that can often weigh more than 500 kg – and are roughly the same as a similarly-sized plug-in hybrid.

https://www.t3.com/features/the-bmw-...he-only-answer

The future is not written in stone.
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      07-24-2023, 04:03 PM   #3093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Interesting article with a lot of recent data.

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car
According to online brokerage Policygenius, the average U.S. monthly EV insurance payment in 2023 is $206, 27% more than for a combustion-engine model.

According to Bankrate, an online publisher of financial content, U.S. insurers know that "if even a minor accident results in damage to the battery pack ... the cost to replace this key component may exceed $15,000."

A replacement battery for a Tesla Model 3 can cost up to $20,000, for a vehicle that retails at around $43,000 but depreciates quickly over time.

Andy Keane, UK commercial motor product manager at French insurer AXA (AXAF.PA), said expensive replacement batteries "may sometimes make replacing a battery unfeasible."

EV battery damage makes up just a few percent of Allianz's motor insurance claims, but 8% of claims costs in Germany, Lauterwasser said. Germany's insurers pool data on vehicle claims data and adjust premium rates annually.

"If the cost for a certain model gets higher it will raise premium levels because the rating goes up," Lauterwasser said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/

I really don't care if EV buys over look the trajectory of the data. They should have the right to have what ever they want in their garage. I just don't want ICE drivers pay for their infatuation.
That could just take a little too fast over a high raised speed hump and the car is scrap.
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      07-24-2023, 04:03 PM   #3094
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
lol, cuz like most people, who don't sit around complaining about EV's all day, that is the ideal time to charge the vehicle if you want to wake up to a full charge...
OK, so I'll put you down in the "Don't care about the climate" category.

Quote:
Most people are out and about or at work during the day.
So most people also charge with carbon generation too?

Quote:
off peak charging times are after 9pm. I have net metering solar, so it doesnt really matter much to me, but it still helps to try and use less electricity during peak hours of 3pm -9pm
So it's to save money then? Why not buy a Corolla or a Prius?
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      07-24-2023, 04:07 PM   #3095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
OK, so I'll put you down in the "Don't care about the climate" category.



So most people also charge with carbon generation too?



So it's to save money then? Why not buy a Corolla or a Prius?
it's all good, i already put you down in the "idiot" catgory
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      07-24-2023, 04:15 PM   #3096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
The BMW iX5 Hydrogen proves that batteries aren’t the only answer

Because it uses electric motors, the iX5 Hydrogen drives just like any other EV, but with a couple of major improvements. The range does not decrease in cold weather, as it does with battery electric vehicles (BEV), and it is not hampered when towing a trailer either.

As for weight, BMW says hydrogen cars are lighter than an equivalent battery-powered car – due to the lack of a huge battery that can often weigh more than 500 kg – and are roughly the same as a similarly-sized plug-in hybrid.

https://www.t3.com/features/the-bmw-...he-only-answer

The future is not written in stone.
So you can actually store hydrogen in this one, unlike the hydrogen powered 7-series?
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      07-24-2023, 04:20 PM   #3097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
That could just take a little too fast over a high raised speed hump and the car is scrap.
Tesla bursts into flames on Pennsylvania highway
A Tesla was burnt beyond recognition Tuesday after a large piece of debris became lodged underneath the car on a Pennsylvania highway.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/18/tesla-...vania-highway/

I read another report that is was likely an ice ball off a tractor trailer.
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      07-24-2023, 04:25 PM   #3098
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Quote:
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So you can actually store hydrogen in this one, unlike the hydrogen powered 7-series?
I'm assuming so "The range is a claimed 310 miles"
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      07-24-2023, 04:29 PM   #3099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
So you can actually store hydrogen in this one, unlike the hydrogen powered 7-series?
Better article:
The gaseous hydrogen required to supply the fuel cell is stored in two 700-bar tanks made from carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP). Together, they hold six kilograms of hydrogen, giving the BMW iX5 Hydrogen a range of 504 km in the WLTP cycle. Refuelling the hydrogen tanks takes only three to four minutes, meaning that the BMW iX5 Hydrogen delivers the driving pleasure you expect from BMW with just a few, short interim stops, even on long routes.

https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/gen...5Hydrogen.html
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      07-24-2023, 04:50 PM   #3100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
it's all good, i already put you down in the "idiot" catgory
If that's what you think, go for it. Your opinions of me have no bearing on the greater debate at hand.

You epitomize the notion that this green EV push is about money and virtue signaling, not saving the planet.

This is the reason so many in "the middle" are skeptical about all these great green programs. You don't have solar for being green, you have it so you can save money on power and sell any surplus power at on-peak rates. You charge your car at night using fossil generation as you "buy back" that green surplus because it's cheaper. Problem is : what you buy back is not green. You are still part of the problem while touting your green status. Even if you sold more power than you used - including the fossil power that you buy back at night to charge your EV, you are still part of the problem- you are consuming fossil energy. And society is being forced to subsidize your model. This is one of the reasons why people are getting frustrated with subsidizing these technologies.
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      07-24-2023, 05:28 PM   #3101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Better article:
The gaseous hydrogen required to supply the fuel cell is stored in two 700-bar tanks made from carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP). Together, they hold six kilograms of hydrogen, giving the BMW iX5 Hydrogen a range of 504 km in the WLTP cycle. Refuelling the hydrogen tanks takes only three to four minutes, meaning that the BMW iX5 Hydrogen delivers the driving pleasure you expect from BMW with just a few, short interim stops, even on long routes.

https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/gen...5Hydrogen.html
Wiki...

"As of April 2023, there are 60 publicly accessible hydrogen refueling stations in the US, 59 of which are located in California, with one (1) in Hawaii."



Not flaming, just goofing around
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      07-24-2023, 05:37 PM   #3102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
The BMW iX5 Hydrogen proves that batteries aren’t the only answer

Because it uses electric motors, the iX5 Hydrogen drives just like any other EV, but with a couple of major improvements. The range does not decrease in cold weather, as it does with battery electric vehicles (BEV), and it is not hampered when towing a trailer either.

As for weight, BMW says hydrogen cars are lighter than an equivalent battery-powered car – due to the lack of a huge battery that can often weigh more than 500 kg – and are roughly the same as a similarly-sized plug-in hybrid.

https://www.t3.com/features/the-bmw-...he-only-answer

The future is not written in stone.
Good luck creating the infrastructure of fueling stations. Toyota Mirai started sales in the U.S. in I think 2015. Pretty difficult to leave metro LA 8 years later.
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