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      07-26-2023, 06:27 AM   #3147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Hmmmm... Looks like the ICE is the answer.
Amazing the stuff people figured out before computers...
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      07-26-2023, 07:31 AM   #3148
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
The only thing I would like to add is that EV buyers suffer horrendous depreciation often >1k per month or in the case of a taycan >2k per month. So they are paying for their own folly.


The question is also if Joe public is losing money by subsidising EV and if EV buyers are losing money with crazy depreciation who is gaining out of all of this?
That's simple. The wealthy with heavy positions in these "green" companies. The same wealthy that have the money to grease politicians to divert public funding and to set public policy forcing an artificial market demand. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if many of these politicians have large investments in these companies.
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      07-26-2023, 07:35 AM   #3149
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Originally Posted by PhaceN52 View Post
If you're not referring to passengers smartphone batteries, that are not as near as energy dense in terms of voltage and amperes as an EV battery, Airbus A320 for example still uses nickel cadmium units for onboard electronics and emergency supply, and cargo airlines use special closed containers when shipping lithium batteries. Wonder why... /s
I don't know if you've noticed. Any battery shipped now has to have a visible warning sticker on it indicating it's a hazmat. These stickers weren't there when NiCd batteries where the only game in town. They only showed up when Lithium batteries hit the market and only after various fire incidents happened. When I bought a product that uses a LiPo battery, I was sold and pretty much given no option not to purchase a fire resistant pouch. It's for putting the LiPo battery inside during charging in the event it catches fire.
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      07-26-2023, 08:22 AM   #3150
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Originally Posted by PhaceN52 View Post
Troll master
Works every time.

And you guys are still in for a treat come 2035.


Thatís the funny part lmaooooo
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      07-26-2023, 08:25 AM   #3151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
How many of those ICE fires are fuel tanks starting themselves on fire?

How many ICE cars are there compared to EV's, and what is the average age of each.

Come to the discussion with logic and facts please. It will be an endless circle jerk no doubt, since neither platform is free of risk/danger.

You are actually pointing out exactly what I keep saying on the endless articles of EV fires and the fear of EV fire posts. I keep saying that without any data it is meaningless. Article posted about an EV fire, I posted an article on a gasoline fire and said without data on how likely they are to happen they are both pretty meaningless.

Interesting you are telling me to come to the discussion with "logic and facts", how come you haven't said the same over and over for the endless articles or "fear of fire"?

I have yet to see any data showing that an EV is any more dangerous than an ICE. I have never said the EV is more or less dangerous.

Quote:
The ICE platform doesn't put the ignition source inside the fuel source. EV's have a unique trait, the fuel source is the ignition source in the case of battery fires.
OK? The ICE has both in the same compartment, most cars even have an electric pump for gasoline, all have the gas/electric separated by pretty simple fuel lines and plastic surrounding the electric. Come up with anything proving one is more dangerous than the other and you will have something.


From my previous posts
Quote:
The post above of a random EV fire means nothing,....
Quote:
I agree putting them out is a problem but without data it's just a never post of news articles about an individual fire.
Quote:
We can continue but none of this means much of anything without actual data. Virtually never ending supply of my replies on ICE fires if people want them.
Quote:
Still interested in seeing any data that shows this is a problem worth worrying about or big enough to change rates.
Quote:
Your theory is this number will cause insurance rates to go up but I haven't seen anything to show the extent of the problem. Post above has the guy guess the rate and the cost.
Quote:
Nice headline grabbing article but " a ton of disabled EV's" - what does this mean? Again, any data to prove anything?
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      07-26-2023, 09:14 AM   #3152
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
And you guys are still in for a treat come 2035.
Thatís the funny part lmaooooo
You're in for a treat when you learn that your EV has depreciated more that Hunter Biden's art work. (too soon?)

It will also be a hoot when your Tesla dealer informs you need a new battery and it will be $16,500.00 plus labor. lmaooooo
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      07-26-2023, 09:17 AM   #3153
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Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
If this were anywhere near the problem you are making it out to be, airliners would be bursting into flames midflight all over the place...with so many batteries on board.
airliners don't use big batteries for main propulsion.

Have there been no battery fires on airplanes? Yes, there have, some fatal. Numerous ones have caused emergency landings and serious injuries. And these are just small batteries. They are now a safety regulated hazardous cargo. Just like other hazardous things.
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      07-26-2023, 09:41 AM   #3154
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
You're in for a treat when you learn that your EV has depreciated more that Hunter Biden's art work. (too soon?)

It will also be a hoot when your Tesla dealer informs you need a new battery and it will be $16,500.00 plus labor. lmaooooo
Thatís why you lease not buy.

Who the fuck keeps cars past 100k lmaoooooooooooo
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      07-26-2023, 09:41 AM   #3155
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Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
He likes to make blanket statements that really add nothing to the conversation. It was kind of nice that he wasn't posting here for a while. I used to reply to him but gave up when it was clear the only reply you'd get was some garbage.
That one isn't far off though. People were losing their **** years ago when Toyota introduced the Prius...with a BATTERY. There was no shortage of predictions of terror and apocalypse due to this, with projections of dead Priuses everywhere, how it would fail completely, how they couldn't be repaired, how it was going to take their jerbs, etc. People are losing their **** again. Calm down honey, it's not going to change overnight, you'll be ok.
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      07-26-2023, 09:47 AM   #3156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
airliners don't use big batteries for main propulsion.

Have there been no battery fires on airplanes? Yes, there have, some fatal. Numerous ones have caused emergency landings and serious injuries. And these are just small batteries. They are now a safety regulated hazardous cargo. Just like other hazardous things.
They have batteries all over the place though, internal batteries (Li Ion) and the ones people bring in on their luggage, their ipads, phones, all sorts of other devices. If these were such a big problem, they'd be popping off each day, hell probably on every airplane due to the sheer number of them. But it's not. It's a concern, just like many other things...it's just not the end of the world. I also deal with cargo airplanes that are transporting thousands of these things. It's just not the end of the world scenario you are preaching.
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      07-26-2023, 09:47 AM   #3157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I keep saying that without any data it is meaningless.

Article posted about an EV fire, I posted an article on a gasoline fire and said without data on how likely they are to happen they are both pretty meaningless.
Strange, no mention of needing data from your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Last month a tank trailer hauling roughly 9000 gallons of gasoline shutdown I95 after it burned, killing the driver and causing an overpass to collapse.
^ you are just adding fire to the circle-jerk debate about "gas-vs-electricity", without a stated contextual purpose, and seemingly knowing they are both dangerous.

Yes, they are both dangerous. most of us here already know that. Thing is, gas tanks don't start themselves on fire, batteries can and do.
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      07-26-2023, 09:54 AM   #3158
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Thatís why you lease not buy.

Who the fuck keeps cars past 100k lmaoooooooooooo
That's a real green mentality there. And those that prefer to keep cars past 100k are typically ones that don't care to be burning money needlessly.
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      07-26-2023, 10:01 AM   #3159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
They have batteries all over the place though, internal batteries (Li Ion) and the ones people bring in on their luggage, their ipads, phones, all sorts of other devices. If these were such a big problem, they'd be popping off each day, hell probably on every airplane due to the sheer number of them. But it's not. It's a concern, just like many other things...it's just not the end of the world. I also deal with cargo airplanes that are transporting thousands of these things. It's just not the end of the world scenario you are preaching.
There is "gas" in airplanes too, if it were so dangerous, those would be blowing up all the time as well if we are to believe the "whataboutisim" being used in an attempt to minimize the fear of spontaneous EV battery fires, because "ICE cars burn too". Of course they do, just not spontaneously due to the gas tank.


I've preached no end of the world scenario, stop with the projecting.
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      07-26-2023, 10:03 AM   #3160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Thatís why you lease not buy.

Who the fuck keeps cars past 100k lmaoooooooooooo
yea disposable society. Let's just make a rule all these EV's get shipped to 3rd world countries after the end of the lease so they can figure out how to "recycle" them. Out of sight, out of mind, we all still get to feel so green.
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      07-26-2023, 10:05 AM   #3161
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"Electric car 'sets huge cargo ship on fire in North Sea': One sailor dead and 23 evacuated from burning 18,500-ton container ship carrying 3,000 cars"




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ught-fire.html


25 EVs over 3000 veichles, that's roughly the 0,84 percent

https://jalopnik.com/ev-suspected-as...ire-1850677592
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      07-26-2023, 10:07 AM   #3162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Strange, no mention of needing data from your post:



^ you are just adding fire to the circle-jerk debate about "gas-vs-electricity", without a stated contextual purpose, and seemingly knowing they are both dangerous.

Yes, they are both dangerous. most of us here already know that. Thing is, gas tanks don't start themselves on fire, batteries can and do.
He continues to post articles that prove nothing so I did the same. He doesn't reply when I question them, just posts articles and moves on to the next one. I am happy to admit that my article proves nothing. Thanks for pointing it out, it's very helpful.

If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.

Quote:
Thing is, gas tanks don't start themselves on fire, batteries can and do
. ICE is a powertrain, with a battery/electric, with sources of ignition. A gas tank by itself won't get you anywhere. This isn't going anywhere either. If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.
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      07-26-2023, 10:14 AM   #3163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
He continues to post articles that prove nothing so I did the same. He doesn't reply when I question them, just posts articles and moves on to the next one. I am happy to admit that my article proves nothing. Thanks for pointing it out, it's very helpful.

If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.

. ICE is a powertrain, with a battery/electric, with sources of ignition. A gas tank by itself won't get you anywhere. This isn't going anywhere either. If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.
No scientific data but an event, see above...
How many ICE car shipments do catch fire spontaneously vs the whole number of shipments? I don't think it's directly proportional to that 0,84%, if it makes sense, otherwise there would be roughly one cargo fire a day..
Yeah, it's the number of evs on a single shipment so it's just an assumption that it would translate to the hypotetical ICE/EVs shipment numbers if split up, but it won't be that far imho

Last edited by PhaceN52; 07-26-2023 at 10:21 AM..
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      07-26-2023, 10:32 AM   #3164
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Originally Posted by PhaceN52 View Post
No scientific data but an event, see above...
How many ICE car shipments do catch fire spontaneously vs the whole number of shipments? I don't think it's directly proportional to that 0,84%, if it makes sense, otherwise there would be roughly one cargo fire a day..
Interesting event, I have no idea how often ICE's spontaneously combust during shipment and I am not following what this event shows us. There were 3k cars on board 25 EV's and 1 EV caught on fire. 25/3,000 is .84% but what does this tell us? On this shipment the vast majority of cars were ICE's but 1 EV caught fire.

I am not defending EV's as being safer, just waiting to see proof they aren't before I make a decision on it.
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      07-26-2023, 10:45 AM   #3165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
He continues to post articles that prove nothing so I did the same. He doesn't reply when I question them, just posts articles and moves on to the next one. I am happy to admit that my article proves nothing. Thanks for pointing it out, it's very helpful.

If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.

. ICE is a powertrain, with a battery/electric, with sources of ignition. A gas tank by itself won't get you anywhere. This isn't going anywhere either. If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.
How many gas tank recalls have there been recently, and how many EV battery recalls have there been?

U.S. safety regulators have opened an investigation into electric and hybrid vehicle batteries after five automakers issued recalls due to possible defects that could cause fires or stalling.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nationa...eries-recalls/

All cars have electrical fires, EV's have battery fires (in addition to electrical fires).
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      07-26-2023, 10:56 AM   #3166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
How many gas tank recalls have there been recently, and how many EV battery recalls have there been?

U.S. safety regulators have opened an investigation into electric and hybrid vehicle batteries after five automakers issued recalls due to possible defects that could cause fires or stalling.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nationa...eries-recalls/

All cars have electrical fires, EV's have battery fires (in addition to electrical fires).
Number of recalls doesn't show overall risk.

Quote:
The company recalled all 141,000 Chevy Bolts, later confirming that 16 cars had caught fire.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38252...vy-bolt-fires/


Recall was initiated after .011% caught fire. Note that if instead of 16 catching fire it had been 1410 it would have been 1% of them.

If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.

Quote:
How many gas tank recalls have there been recently,
We both agree that gas tanks by themselves don't catch fire. I just can't figure out how to ride a gas tank to the store and I end up adding an engine/electrical to it to make is useful. This makes it more dangerous but a risk I am willing to take.
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      07-26-2023, 11:01 AM   #3167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaceN52 View Post
"Electric car 'sets huge cargo ship on fire in North Sea': One sailor dead and 23 evacuated from burning 18,500-ton container ship carrying 3,000 cars"




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ught-fire.html


25 EVs over 3000 veichles, that's roughly the 0,84 percent

https://jalopnik.com/ev-suspected-as...ire-1850677592
Here we go again... the ship with its cargo of 3000 new cars looks doomed as the fire reaches the other EV's and they'll ignite, the ship is for sure lost and not far from Sweden, should make Greta Thunberg think twice before she says something that a 'green' car started a chain reaction leading to a climate catastrophe.
As I said in my previous post, you won't know when, you won't know where when an EV will erupt next in flames.
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      07-26-2023, 11:04 AM   #3168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Number of recalls doesn't show overall risk.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38252...vy-bolt-fires/


Recall was initiated after .011% caught fire.


If you come up with any data that EV's are more dangerous than ICE's please post it.
Number of recalls shows how prevalent it is, covering many makes and models.

How many spontaneous gas tank fires have resulted in a recall?

0.011% > 0.0%

Jaguar Recalls I-Pace EV After 8 Battery-Related Fires In The U.S.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/ja...es-in-the-u-s/

8/6,367 = 0.12% . 0.12% > 0.011% > 0.0%

Spontaneous battery combustion is a problem ICE's don't even have.

Last edited by chad86tsi; 07-26-2023 at 11:11 AM..
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