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      04-28-2023, 03:09 AM   #2135
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It's the same over here, in uncomplicated layman's terms the gubment is blind to the reality of supply and demand of generated electricity and all they are interested in is pulling the wool over folks eyes into believing that ''affordable'' renewables will supply the solution to EV's on their ill chosen path to 2030. What utter BS from the house by the river.
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      04-28-2023, 03:12 AM   #2136
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The last thing I followed from California was the skateboard fad of the mid 1970s. I was in 7th grade. Lol.
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      04-28-2023, 03:27 AM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
exactly....who writes this crap? CEO of Exxon???

What idiot would write that and not do a simple search of the best selling cars in 2023???

Hint- The Model Y is the best selling car(non truck) in the US in 2023 and the Model 3 #6 on the list.... and they don't even advertise

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g4...ing-cars-2023/
UmÖÖÖ..AhÖÖÖ..UmÖÖThatís Yahoo. You donít get any more pro your side and green then those people. Iím sure person writing that was crying the entire time and probably had to go see a psychiatrist that evening. If you think the person writing that was the slightest bit happy about it then you donít understand who and what Yahoo is. These people wouldíve fit in 1950s Russia just perfectly. Gezzzz man.
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      04-28-2023, 04:10 AM   #2138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
most people charge at home or at work and don't even need Super Charger stations....they are all over SoCal and I've never seen one with a line of waiting cars
I’m afraid you and I’ve already had this discussion before. I agree with you that most people today do that. That’s because 99% of Tesla owners have multiple other cars in their fleet and most importantly they own a house where they can have a charging station. Most EV owners today can, for the most part, easily afford an EV.

Listen, bro, you at least are trying to be a little more reasonable than the threads troll but you still don’t seem to be listening to what everyone is writing here in this thread, as well as ignoring the articles folks are posting here from Ultra pro green news organizations.

Now, if you do a quick Google search like I did you’ll find there’s roughly 290,000,000 cars in the United States. There’s 140 million houses in the United States. There is 332 million people in the United States (not including undocumented people). If you do it a little bit further research and I’m not going to copy and paste everything I found, but you can see for yourself that roughly 35% of our nations cars park at some type of house at night. Kind sir, where do you feel the other 65% of our fellow citizens who according to you and others are fine with them possibly being forced to buy an EV in the not too distant future are going to charge them at night? Yes I know you’ve said they’ll still be plenty of ice around but not new ones if you have it your way. And I didn’t even get into that most houses in the United States, the vast majority of them in fact, do not have a sufficient electrical panel to handle a supercharger at their house. Upgrading an electrical panel from 150 A to 200 A cost $3000 in Florida. I suspect it’s probably double that in California. You know, as well as I do plugging your car into 110 V outlet is considerably slower than installing a fast charging station at your home so these type of home electrical upgrades will be desirable and necessary.

Government entities throughout the world, and the citizens who worship them spew out the 2035 initiative paraphrase all the time mostly from pure emotion. Neither of them government or their worshipers have laid out a viable plan that I have seen that shows a realistic pathway of how we can achieve the details of their set initiative. And as you have seen with your own eyes many news organizations who are very much a part of the church of government write articles backing up everything the skeptics to this irresponsible plan have been saying on the very thread.

I personally think electric vehicles are pretty cool. I also agree with you and the threads troll that by far tesla is the best. They should be they’ve been around the longest and gotten the most money from government. I personally have come to like Elon Musk very much. Mostly for what he’s done at Twitter but I still think his car company and the things he’s doing with space exploration are very cool. The man has done a lot for America and will continue to do so. I very much plan on adding an electric vehicle to my fleet soon. I am upgrading my electrical panel this year to add a supercharger before I even buy one. When my wife’s X3 is out of warranty, I will more than likely get an electric vehicle. I don’t hate them, nor am I against them. But then I love all new type of technology anyway. I’m a sucker for it. New type of TV? I buy it. Next generation iPhone? I buy it. Myself and others have very much wrote on this thread what we are against. We are against government interference i.e. picking winners and losers in capitalism. It never works out right when they do. They should definitely be overseer to make sure monopolies don’t take place or cheating but ANY interference past that always and I mean always ends in disaster.

This has been a good thread for a very important discussion and topic. If you wouldn’t mind could really help some of us by giving a detailed explanation of how you would handle the following EV challenges if you were king of the United States.

1. Insufficient electrical grid.
2. Affordability.
3. Charging stations availability.
4. Charging times.
5. Supply of batteries.
6. Disposal of batteries or possible refurbishment

Without a sufficiently detailed plan for these six subjects, and probably a lot more the idea of any end date for ice vehicles is silly at best and incredibly irresponsible at worst.

Last edited by Patton250; 04-28-2023 at 04:15 AM..
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      04-28-2023, 04:26 AM   #2139
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
most people charge at home or at work and don't even need Super Charger stations....they are all over SoCal and I've never seen one with a line of waiting cars
lmaoooo exactly

preach brotha man!
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      04-28-2023, 06:37 AM   #2140
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https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/byd/36...l-car-industry

As the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases, China has a vested interest in promoting the widespread adoption of electric vehicles. However, given that many vital components of EVs, namely batteries, are manufactured in China, officeholders in London, Washington DC, Berlin and Brussels may be wary of ceding too much control to Beijing.
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      04-28-2023, 07:41 AM   #2141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
I’m afraid you and I’ve already had this discussion before. I agree with you that most people today do that. That’s because 99% of Tesla owners have multiple other cars in their fleet and most importantly they own a house where they can have a charging station. Most EV owners today can, for the most part, easily afford an EV.

Listen, bro, you at least are trying to be a little more reasonable than the threads troll but you still don’t seem to be listening to what everyone is writing here in this thread, as well as ignoring the articles folks are posting here from Ultra pro green news organizations.

Now, if you do a quick Google search like I did you’ll find there’s roughly 290,000,000 cars in the United States. There’s 140 million houses in the United States. There is 332 million people in the United States (not including undocumented people). If you do it a little bit further research and I’m not going to copy and paste everything I found, but you can see for yourself that roughly 35% of our nations cars park at some type of house at night. Kind sir, where do you feel the other 65% of our fellow citizens who according to you and others are fine with them possibly being forced to buy an EV in the not too distant future are going to charge them at night? Yes I know you’ve said they’ll still be plenty of ice around but not new ones if you have it your way. And I didn’t even get into that most houses in the United States, the vast majority of them in fact, do not have a sufficient electrical panel to handle a supercharger at their house. Upgrading an electrical panel from 150 A to 200 A cost $3000 in Florida. I suspect it’s probably double that in California. You know, as well as I do plugging your car into 110 V outlet is considerably slower than installing a fast charging station at your home so these type of home electrical upgrades will be desirable and necessary.

Government entities throughout the world, and the citizens who worship them spew out the 2035 initiative paraphrase all the time mostly from pure emotion. Neither of them government or their worshipers have laid out a viable plan that I have seen that shows a realistic pathway of how we can achieve the details of their set initiative. And as you have seen with your own eyes many news organizations who are very much a part of the church of government write articles backing up everything the skeptics to this irresponsible plan have been saying on the very thread.

I personally think electric vehicles are pretty cool. I also agree with you and the threads troll that by far tesla is the best. They should be they’ve been around the longest and gotten the most money from government. I personally have come to like Elon Musk very much. Mostly for what he’s done at Twitter but I still think his car company and the things he’s doing with space exploration are very cool. The man has done a lot for America and will continue to do so. I very much plan on adding an electric vehicle to my fleet soon. I am upgrading my electrical panel this year to add a supercharger before I even buy one. When my wife’s X3 is out of warranty, I will more than likely get an electric vehicle. I don’t hate them, nor am I against them. But then I love all new type of technology anyway. I’m a sucker for it. New type of TV? I buy it. Next generation iPhone? I buy it. Myself and others have very much wrote on this thread what we are against. We are against government interference i.e. picking winners and losers in capitalism. It never works out right when they do. They should definitely be overseer to make sure monopolies don’t take place or cheating but ANY interference past that always and I mean always ends in disaster.

This has been a good thread for a very important discussion and topic. If you wouldn’t mind could really help some of us by giving a detailed explanation of how you would handle the following EV challenges if you were king of the United States.

1. Insufficient electrical grid.
2. Affordability.
3. Charging stations availability.
4. Charging times.
5. Supply of batteries.
6. Disposal of batteries or possible refurbishment

Without a sufficiently detailed plan for these six subjects, and probably a lot more the idea of any end date for ice vehicles is silly at best and incredibly irresponsible at worst.
Appreciated post, and why many are skeptical of EVs not even just within our own personal situations

But obviously some people really don't have any perspective or have empathy outside their own little world, more power to them I guess
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      04-28-2023, 11:47 AM   #2142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Um………..Ah………..Um……That’s Yahoo. You don’t get any more pro your side and green then those people. I’m sure person writing that was crying the entire time and probably had to go see a psychiatrist that evening. If you think the person writing that was the slightest bit happy about it then you don’t understand who and what Yahoo is. These people would’ve fit in 1950s Russia just perfectly. Gezzzz man.
ummm you do realize Yahoo just takes articles from other sites and posts them to generate clicks, not push some sort of EV agenda ..
that article was from moneywise.com and has nothing to do with Yahoo


sorry to ruin your conspiracy theories about Yahoo
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      04-28-2023, 11:53 AM   #2143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
ummm you do realize Yahoo just takes articles from other sites and posts them to generate clicks, not push some sort of EV agenda ..
that article was from moneywise.com and has nothing to do with Yahoo


sorry to ruin your conspiracy theories about Yahoo
That was a great college try. Yahoo never never never never never never never is going to copy and paste an anti-electric vehicle article. That company is far to one side of the political spectrum as you can get. I now take back my compliment that youíve been reasonable.
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      04-28-2023, 11:56 AM   #2144
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All these guys do is come on here to troll. They have absolutely zero debating skills or intention of entering the conversation in a respectful manner. They should just discontinue participating here.
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      04-28-2023, 12:32 PM   #2145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
ummm you do realize Yahoo just takes articles from other sites and posts them to generate clicks, not push some sort of EV agenda ..
that article was from moneywise.com and has nothing to do with Yahoo


sorry to ruin your conspiracy theories about Yahoo
Agreed man. This isnít a debate on how it canít work or what can we do to make it work.

Itís just a bitch thread yelling, ďno no ev wonít work because I donít want it to work because I want ice forever!!!!!Ē

Lmaooooo
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      04-28-2023, 12:41 PM   #2146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
That was a great college try. Yahoo never never never never never never never is going to copy and paste an anti-electric vehicle article. That company is far to one side of the political spectrum as you can get. I now take back my compliment that you’ve been reasonable.


lmao....Yahoo just did exactly what you said they would never never never do

the facts stare you dead in the face and you still refuse to belive it and try to put some weird conspiracy political spin on it


truly bizarre
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      04-28-2023, 12:45 PM   #2147
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post


lmao....Yahoo just did exactly what you said they would never never never do

the facts stare you dead in the face and you still refuse to belive it and try to put some weird conspiracy political spin on it


truly bizarre
I donít think you could do a better job then this post of yours of proving my point about you and the threads troll even if you worked all day on it. Thank you. Itís pointless to continue any further discussion with you on this subject. Others may feel like trying, but itís obvious you will not engage in the conversation and overall discussion.

Gentlemen, I think we have to considered one thing about this member and his cohort the threads troll. Perhaps theyíre both young millennials and have really no idea how to engage in social conversations? Iím really not sure, but itís pointless to continue with them.
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      04-28-2023, 12:46 PM   #2148
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2035 on ze move!!!!! Like ze Germans say!
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      04-28-2023, 12:53 PM   #2149
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Had my M battery on trickle charge outside my garage which I can do with the hood shut and a courier asked if it's one of those EV's
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      04-28-2023, 06:32 PM   #2150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
All these guys do is come on here to troll. They have absolutely zero debating skills or intention of entering the conversation in a respectful manner. They should just discontinue participating here.
I stopped a long time ago other than to pop in here and talk to Chad. You really are wasting your time.

How's the weather in your area? It's starting to get hot as hell over here after we had a really nice winter season. Lots of rain, so everything is in bloom wrecking my allergies, but otherwise just really nice. Finally seeing some 90+ degree days.
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      04-28-2023, 06:41 PM   #2151
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I stopped a long time ago other than to pop in here and talk to Chad. You really are wasting your time.

How's the weather in your area? It's starting to get hot as hell over here after we had a really nice winter season. Lots of rain, so everything is in bloom wrecking my allergies, but otherwise just really nice. Finally seeing some 90+ degree days.
I know youíre right. I just thought I would try with them. Not very smart of me for sure. They have no interest in engaging in a discussion.

We had the best winter ever. Very mild and perfect weather. Now the rains have come and the humidity is moving in. Iím getting tired of the summers down here. My wife and I will probably buy a second place in Maine to escape Florida for five months a year.
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      04-28-2023, 08:19 PM   #2152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
I know youíre right. I just thought I would try with them. Not very smart of me for sure. They have no interest in engaging in a discussion.

We had the best winter ever. Very mild and perfect weather. Now the rains have come and the humidity is moving in. Iím getting tired of the summers down here. My wife and I will probably buy a second place in Maine to escape Florida for five months a year.
I'm looking for a place to snowbird too as well. Was thinking somewhere in PNW but I need nice roads and all the crackheads and politics up there is making me reconsider. Perhaps NH or maybe I should check out Maine
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      04-30-2023, 05:37 PM   #2153
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https://www.am-online.com/news/marke...-mandate-fines
In its EV sales mandate consultation document, the UK Government said that it had reached a provisional fine of £15,000 per internal combustion engine (ICE) car sold Ė and £18,000 per commercial vehicle Ė after determining that the fine should meet three criteria.

Wow! Can't reduce ev price to match ice...just increase ice price to make ev's look better value. Genius.
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      05-01-2023, 04:20 AM   #2154
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      05-01-2023, 05:03 PM   #2155
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I grabbed this off of my retired police facebook page, the guy who posted it the son of a copper I worked with. Very interesting if not just antidotal. Thought this might interest you and your friends
Bryan Bootcamp:

Exactly one year after purchasing the electric Mustang Mach-E, I'd like to share my thoughts, pros and cons of driving an all electric car.
Pros:
1. Driving is like nothing I've experienced! The acceleration and power is so smooth and luxurious. What a ride!
2. Don't have to buy gas.
3. Low maintenance!!! No oil changes! Fewer moving parts equals less parts breaking down.
4. City driving is amazing! The car battery excels in slow, stop and go conditions.
Cons:
1. Winter driving is very stressful. The battery drains very quickly in the cold. Heating your cabin in extremely cold temperatures is sometimes impossible! At minus 35 degrees Celsius, your windshield will freeze over as NO HEAT will be provided! That's right...only cold air in very cold climate!
3. Charging your car takes much longer in the winter. Traveling to Ottawa once, it took 90 minutes to charge my car from 20% to 80% at a level 3 Charging spot.
4. The anger and frustration when you pull up to a fast charger off the highway and it is "out of order" is out of this world! It happens too often!
5. Everywhere you travel to, extensive careful planning is needed because fast chargers (level 3) are not easy to find in working order.
6. Highway driving drains your battery very fast at speeds greater than 100kms per hour.
In Summary:
1. My Mustang Mach-E is not a practical car for my job. I put 30,000kms in one year. If we have a colder Winter next year I'll be miserable!
2. The infrastructure is a joke for non- tesla cars. I cannot imagine doubling the electric cars on the road with the current available fast chargers. The wait lines and times to charge will increase arrival times on long trips by many hours!
3. Electric cars are not very efficient on the highway if you like to drive fast.
In my opinion, a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) car would be ideal. PHEV cars can drive electric in the city, saving you on gas. Then choose gas to drive efficiently on the highway. Win-win!
I sold my Mustang Mach-E and I am on a waiting list to buy a PHEV. It was a fun ride while it lasted but very impractical for my line of work. Our cold Quebec winters and the very poor infrastructure adds to my obvious decision.
Our governments want to put a holt on the production of internal combustion engines by 2035. Good luck with that! The current infrastructure is a joke. I do not have any faith it can be improved to meet the future demand.
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      05-01-2023, 05:22 PM   #2156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
I grabbed this off of my retired police facebook page, the guy who posted it the son of a copper I worked with. Very interesting if not just antidotal. Thought this might interest you and your friends
Bryan Bootcamp:

Exactly one year after purchasing the electric Mustang Mach-E, I'd like to share my thoughts, pros and cons of driving an all electric car.
Pros:
1. Driving is like nothing I've experienced! The acceleration and power is so smooth and luxurious. What a ride!
2. Don't have to buy gas.
3. Low maintenance!!! No oil changes! Fewer moving parts equals less parts breaking down.
4. City driving is amazing! The car battery excels in slow, stop and go conditions.
Cons:
1. Winter driving is very stressful. The battery drains very quickly in the cold. Heating your cabin in extremely cold temperatures is sometimes impossible! At minus 35 degrees Celsius, your windshield will freeze over as NO HEAT will be provided! That's right...only cold air in very cold climate!
3. Charging your car takes much longer in the winter. Traveling to Ottawa once, it took 90 minutes to charge my car from 20% to 80% at a level 3 Charging spot.
4. The anger and frustration when you pull up to a fast charger off the highway and it is "out of order" is out of this world! It happens too often!
5. Everywhere you travel to, extensive careful planning is needed because fast chargers (level 3) are not easy to find in working order.
6. Highway driving drains your battery very fast at speeds greater than 100kms per hour.
In Summary:
1. My Mustang Mach-E is not a practical car for my job. I put 30,000kms in one year. If we have a colder Winter next year I'll be miserable!
2. The infrastructure is a joke for non- tesla cars. I cannot imagine doubling the electric cars on the road with the current available fast chargers. The wait lines and times to charge will increase arrival times on long trips by many hours!
3. Electric cars are not very efficient on the highway if you like to drive fast.
In my opinion, a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) car would be ideal. PHEV cars can drive electric in the city, saving you on gas. Then choose gas to drive efficiently on the highway. Win-win!
I sold my Mustang Mach-E and I am on a waiting list to buy a PHEV. It was a fun ride while it lasted but very impractical for my line of work. Our cold Quebec winters and the very poor infrastructure adds to my obvious decision.
Our governments want to put a holt on the production of internal combustion engines by 2035. Good luck with that! The current infrastructure is a joke. I do not have any faith it can be improved to meet the future demand.

couple of things...

1. buy a Tesla next time

2. Move!!! how does anybody live anywhere near a place that gets to be -35 degrees
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