[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by kern417

They need to replace the convertible with a 1 series sedan (think A3/S3 competitor)

They've already got the F52 1 Series Sedan, but of course that's built on UKL rather than CLAR. It won't come to the US, but the related F44 2 Series GC will in a couple years (or less).

We will not see a RWD 1 Series Sedan or 2 Series Gran Coupe any time in the near future. Possibly some day when dedicated, legacy-free electric vehicle architectures become the norm, small, practical RWD vehicles (not unlike today's i3, for example) may reemerge.

[JohnEnglish]

I was thinking about ordering a 2019 M550i for a late spring or early summer delivery. However, it now seems like it might be worth while to wait another 6-8 months if the M550i is really going to get the updated N63 motor.

Also, any idea when the new 4 series (G23?) is going to be released?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

Also, any idea when the new 4 series (G23?) is going to be released?

According to the OP, end dates for the current 4 Series models are:

F32 4er - 06/20
F36 4GC - 07/20
F33 4er - 10/20

The corresponding G2x model should start production the following month. The exception to that might be the 4GC since there is evidence it will be moving to a new factory which could potentially mean a gap between generations.

[JohnEnglish]

OK thanks

[hector]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Edit: Sorry, I misread, thinking you were asking about the O1, not the M1. The M1 has no additional power as I had mentioned, instead bringing other small improvements.

Another one of those questions that everyone loves about what is going to happen 10 or 20 years from now, LOL; since the "tu" (technical upgrade) is a relatively minor revision to the B series engines, focused as has been stated, on efficiency, when might one expect an entirely new series, i.e. starting with a letter other than "B", of engines? Or, are we just likely to see evolving electrified plants going forward? Thx.

[shaunatl]

There have been some rumblings about BMW dropping the REx option from the 120Ah i3, but I see that this model is still noted in the first post. Is the 120Ah REx confirmed or potentially up in the air?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

July 2018

It would be reasonable to expect the US-only M2 Racing (new Spec class?) to appear in early 2020 and the worldwide M2 CSL - in mid-2020 as MY2021, for a one year run

I've been anticipating an update of the M2 racing for privateeer racing as well as an M2 CSL.

[10"]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I've been anticipating an update of the M2 racing for privateeer racing as well as an M2 CSL.

CSLs have traditionally been VERY expensive. This will also be $100k or more, my guess... not obtainable for most. Kind of the point, I suppose.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by 10"

CSLs have traditionally been VERY expensive. This will also be $100k or more, my guess... not obtainable for most. Kind of the point, I suppose.

Yeah, I have a feeling the M2C will be a bargain by comparison.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah, I have a feeling the M2C will be a bargain by comparison.

Most people on here had the M2 COMP coming in at the mid 60s for US market and it came in at 58K.

Just as people over-exaggerated the price increase for a COMP model... the same is likely occurring with a CS or CSL.. I presume it will come in LOWER than guesses by people on this forum... and therefore likely UNDER 100K as most people feel it will be over 100K.

the M3 CS came in at $97K.. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1444645 and I personally don't see any variant of an M2 topping the M3 CS..... unless BMW decides to come with an M2 CS *and* an M2 CSL by the EOP.

[10"]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Most people on here had the M2 COMP coming in at the mid 60s for US market and it came in at 58K.

Just as people over-exaggerate the price increase for a CS or CSL.. I presume it will come in LOWER than guesses by people on this forum... and therefore likely UNDER 100K.

the M3 CS came in at $97K.. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1444645 and I personally don't see any variant of an M2 topping the M3 CS..... unless BMW decides to come with an M2 CS *and* an M2 CSL by the EOP.

there's a significant difference between CS and CSLs. the "L" stands for LOOT!!!

for the record i had predicted the M2c would come in between $55-60k so i'm not delusional!

also M3 Adjuster i just looked up the difference of pricing between the E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL in 2003 in the UK market. The E46 M3 was around 40k GBP and the E46 M3 CSL was around 60k GBP. If you use that ratio it was 50% more expensive.

If the M2c is $58k that puts it right around $87k already. By 2020 the price of the M2c will likely be over $60k and you are now into the $90k+ range for a CSL.

Not scientific but pretty much a certainty it will be close to $100k if it's a real CSL.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 10"

also M3 Adjuster i just looked up the difference of pricing between the E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL in 2003 in the UK market. The E46 M3 was around 40k GBP and the E46 M3 CSL was around 60k GBP. If you use that ratio it was 50% more expensive.

If the M2c is $58k that puts it right around $87k already. By 2020 the price of the M2c will likely be over $60k and you are now into the $90k+ range for a CSL.

Not scientific but pretty much a certainty it will be close to $100k if it's a real CSL.

Except the original M2 was 52.5k... not 59K.. but yes.. however.. this is not just a simple math formula.. one has to consider product marketing, placement.. and the competition. .
you can't just scale everything based on another model .. tempting as it may be.

The M4 GTS .. is still well shy of a 911 GT3.

one thing I will say for sure. There is NO WAY an M2 CSL will run more than the next Cayman GT4...

Cayman range is base - $56K , Cayman S at $69K Cayman GTS $80,700 .. even if a Cayman GT4 drops with a 95K base price..

I don't see a competing BMW as MORE expensive ...

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

July 2018

• MY2020 G30 530i and 540i will get the updated B46 (no change in output) and B58 (bumped to 335hp) engines as predicted previously, along with the new instrument panel as standard.

I have a few questions about this. Would it be safe to assume that the updated 530HP N63 will appear in the M550i at the same time? Would the M550i also receive the new instrument panel? What about the new iDrive 7.0 on the new X5? Would this all be part of a larger LCI update?

[10"]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Except the original M2 was 52.5k... not 59K.. but yes.. however.. this is not just a simple math formula.. one has to consider product marketing, placement.. and the competition. .
you can't just scale everything based on another model .. tempting as it may be.

The M4 GTS .. is still well shy of a 911 GT3.

one thing I will say for sure. There is NO WAY an M2 CSL will run more than the next Cayman GT4...

Cayman range is base - $56K , Cayman S at $69K Cayman GTS $80,700 .. even if a Cayman GT4 drops with a 95K base price..

I don't see a competing BMW as MORE expensive ...

If the Cayman GTS is $80k you will never ever ever see a GT4 at $90-95k. Minimum of $105k

As much as you'd like to think BMW care about Cayman pricing they do NOT. The M2 doesn't even have the same target audience...that's why you saw a very expensive M4 GTS get released that was nowhere near as good as a 911 GT3 but priced not that much less than...

My calculations were merely to show you how expensive "CSL" models have traditionally been.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

I have a few questions about this. Would it be safe to assume that the updated 530HP N63 will appear in the M550i at the same time? Would the M550i also receive the new instrument panel? What about the new iDrive 7.0 on the new X5? Would this all be part of a larger LCI update?

Yes, yes, yes, no (LCI is still two years away).

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 10"

If the Cayman GTS is $80k you will never ever ever see a GT4 at $90-95k. Minimum of $105k

As much as you'd like to think BMW care about Cayman pricing they do NOT. The M2 doesn't even have the same target audience...that's why you saw a very expensive M4 GTS get released that was nowhere near as good as a 911 GT3 but priced not that much less than...

My calculations were merely to show you how expensive "CSL" models have traditionally been.

thanks... but I'm not new to the game..

and I will say it again... find a BMW and a Porsche that " compete" with each other... and I am confident that MSRP for MSRP... the BMW will be cheaper.

indeed... to make matter worse on the Porsche side. the Porsche will be NOWHERE near MSRP as equipped on the lot.. but that's not the concern here.


When I bought my 1M. it was priced at 46-53K and was compared to the $76K base price Cayman R in nearly every car mag/rag on the planet.

The M2 at 52.5 is less than a stock Cayman.

An M2 Comp is way less than a $69K Cayman S.. let alone a Cayman GTS.

And an M2 CSL.. will be way less than whatever Porsche model people will compare it to .... likely the Cayman GT4.

The BMW M4 is compared to the 911 (rightly or wrongly) and again.. always cheaper.
The M4 GTS at $134,500 is about as close as I can think of in a comparison matchup as it is only about 9-10K shy of a $143,600 911 GT3

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Yes, yes, yes, no (LCI is still two years away).

Ah, so the LCI for the G30 will appear in MY2021?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

Ah, so the LCI for the G30 will appear in MY2021?

Something like that. The usual 4+3 year cycle.

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Something like that. The usual 4+3 year cycle.

Ok thanks.

[RPM33]

ynguldyn: When can we expect to see the M2 CSL?

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I've been anticipating an update of the M2 racing for privateeer racing as well as an M2 CSL.

M3 Adjuster: Do you have a deposit yet for the M2 CS or CSL?

[matbl]

Originally Posted by shaunatl

There have been some rumblings about BMW dropping the REx option from the 120Ah i3, but I see that this model is still noted in the first post. Is the 120Ah REx confirmed or potentially up in the air?

So 120 Ah is 44 kWh. Useful when comparing to other brands since Ah is kind of useless when comparing stored energy.