[_Patch_]

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by ctuna

I'm not trying to start an argument.
But it looks like things would be pretty much the same
given the same equipment in the same type car.
The things that would vary most would be the personal
preferences and how good your ears are or how worn out
they are. Could 6 inches make that much difference ?

You'd be surprised how much of a difference.

Even the slightest adjustments of .07ms (I think that's the increments on the Helix I have?) can have some noticeable changes to the soundstage. To the point that sometimes I need to just leave the car and come back an hour later just to figure out and place what's not right to my ears.

To that, I would caution you, _Patch_, if you start feeling frustrated at all in the slightest. Put it away and go inside and do something else. You might be like myself, where the ears aren't as trained as someone like Don's and you'll just drive yourself nuts moving this to the left, or right.

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by Wongway

You'd be surprised how much of a difference.

Even the slightest adjustments of .07ms (I think that's the increments on the Helix I have?) can have some noticeable changes to the soundstage. To the point that sometimes I need to just leave the car and come back an hour later just to figure out and place what's not right to my ears.

To that, I would caution you, _Patch_, if you start feeling frustrated at all in the slightest. Put it away and go inside and do something else. You might be like myself, where the ears aren't as trained as someone like Don's and you'll just drive yourself nuts moving this to the left, or right.

Precisely !

[_Patch_]

Originally Posted by Wongway

To that, I would caution you, _Patch_, if you start feeling frustrated at all in the slightest. Put it away and go inside and do something else. You might be like myself, where the ears aren't as trained as someone like Don's and you'll just drive yourself nuts moving this to the left, or right.

lol. Yes, I went nuts multiple times today. I got suckered in because the upper freqs were so obvious to hear... I kept listening to pink noise and woofers/mid... for... hours...

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by _Patch_

Part of this is working against you actually as the HU outputs with a smiley face eq curve. Boosting anything, especially in the higher range will start to rip your ears off.

A completely flat response on an RTA very, very rarely actually sounds 'good'.
Trust your ears, devices are primarily good to remove any nuisances that you cannot figure out.

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by _Patch_

lol. Yes, I went nuts multiple times today. I got suckered in because the upper freqs were so obvious to hear... I kept listening to pink noise and woofers/mid... for... hours...

Trust me... I've been exactly where you are right there.

In fact, I didn't even realize it, but even with the engine running and idling in my driveway, I was in it long enough to need a jump start the next day.

Seriously, just give yourself like maybe a half hour. Make a few adjustments and sit back and listen. Make a few mental notes for yourself, and if you feel at all annoyed, go do something else.

The last few adjustments I made took over a period of a month, because I realized what might have sounded good in the garage sounded off to me while driving on the highway... so I made some mental notes, and tweaked after driving home, listened, then went inside for the evening, and tried the next day.

I'm not sure what the response for your flatlines are. Since I have the doorboards, they are a whole other animal to tune, my lows and mids closest to me are tuned with a surprisingly large amount of delay. Like in the 3+ms range. Don would know better than I, but you may want to tune the low 8" under you to be delayed moreso than you'd expect.

Edit:
I'd have to look at my settings again to be sure, but from what I think I remember:
I think I preferred the butterworth curves on my tweeters and 4" mids. They tended to sound more pleasing to "my" ears. Not sure about yours.
I think I used the Tschebyc curve in my doorboards (which would be your 8" woofers) because I felt I needed more of the sharper drop off from that curve.

I think my driver side 4" mids were delayed around 1.48ms? (I might be off there though, don't take any of this as gospel)
possibly the driver side tweeter was delayed just a hair more than the 4" mid.

I did not delay the passenger 4" mid, as that was my longest distance speaker, so I used that as the reference, so no delay there.
Sorry, I don't remember how much I delayed the passenger side tweeter, as that was really difficult to pin point.

What really baked my noodle however, was that there was a point where I felt like I had a good center... I flipped the phase of the driver side 4" mid 180 degrees. Totally widened my sound stage.

I will caution you this: everything I just listed under my edits worked for my ears, and honestly might screw you up. I'd suggest getting a better feel for what you're doing before trying anything I suggest, because quite frankly, I could very well be wrong.

What's funnier, is even a month later, I'd be listening to some different music and it would suddenly dawn on me "Holy crap, my stage is 1 inch too far to the right..." So back I go adjusting this, changing that...

[parks4ya]

Patch,
I also have a 2011 335d with the base/idrive system. I've been reading through your posts and have decided to put in a order with Don over at Unexpected Creations for a Helix P SIX and the Jehnert flatline kit. I have personal experience installing stereo system; however, by no means do I consider myself a professional. Any advice, links, recommendations on doing this installation? I'm debating on whether or not to order one of Technic's harnesses or to run the wire myself. I don't have hifi outputs. I know you chose to connect under your seat vs behind the HU. Do you still recommend this?

Thanks,
Nate