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      06-15-2020, 02:14 AM   #23
tlow98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Very interested to see how the D8 install goes...

(and very envious of the M3 seats!)
After reading and replying to all of your helpful information (thank you!) I believe I will install only the front D8s (D7s). I will give the rears a raise of about 14mm with a spacer at the top spring perch.

The wagon rear springs are high enough lb/in that I will leave them as I'd like to lessen the variables where I can.

M3 seats so cheap these days why not? They are mega comfy. First mod that the wife was really on board with and that's saying something.
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      06-15-2020, 02:26 AM   #24
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Cool, sounds good!

My car has manual seats (not powered), so right now I'm not really up for the hassle of wiring. I don't even have sport seats though; they're really crappy!

Also, I find I can persuade the lady that parts which go under the car are needed, whereas anything cosmetic gets eye-rolls and sighs...
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      06-15-2020, 02:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Cool, sounds good!

My car has manual seats (not powered), so right now I'm not really up for the hassle of wiring. I don't even have sport seats though; they're really crappy!

Also, I find I can persuade the lady that parts which go under the car are needed, whereas anything cosmetic gets eye-rolls and sighs...
Totally get it with the wiring. And yeah, same with my lady. But after sitting in them she got it. We were coming from base seats, as well.
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      06-18-2020, 05:46 PM   #26
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Just to put your mind at ease regarding the step up to D8 springs at the front, check out some aftermarket spring rates here:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=10
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      06-19-2020, 12:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Just to put your mind at ease regarding the step up to D8 springs at the front, check out some aftermarket spring rates here:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=10
Oh yes, that is an old but good resource. I can't wait to take the front swaybar off. It's awful.

In other news, I dialed one full turn of each toe adjuster inward and the car is MUCH smoother on the highway. No longer wants to dart all over the damn place. By my beatnik calcs and rough estimations, I should be barely toe-in now. I need to measure.
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      06-19-2020, 01:57 AM   #28
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Wow, that must have been a long way toe out! Small wonder it was flighty. Glad you're moving in the right direction. ATW has a good section on toe - you should have a read of that; helped me actually cut through the 'toe out 4 lyf' hype
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      06-19-2020, 09:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
Update:

The suspension settings (toe-out) are getting tiresome and annoying on the highway. This was a result of the Dinan camber plates set to max with the camber pins pulled.

Remedy = alignment is needed.

Also, the degradation of the ride quality from the front M3 bar is bugging me. I am constantly feeling the pull of the sway bar on either end of the car when I hit larger bumps. It's a significant change.

Remedy = Remove M3 swaybar, add stiffer OE sport springs, and Koni yellows all around.

I'd like to give the suspension its independent feel back.

Parts list:
- OE D8 sport springs in the front - 335i convertible springs. The 335 weighs about 400lbs more than my car but the weight bias F/R is very similar.
- Koni Yellows
- OE Sport bumps stops all around
- Front OE sport mounts
- Rear top Monroe mounts and bottom OE mounts
- Front OE 328i wagon swaybar
- Front E30 spring perches to attain non-sport ride height
- Rear upper spring pads (14.5mm)

What I hope to achieve: Non-sport ride height but with stiffer sport springs and better damping all around. I also want the jittery feeling of the M3 bar to be gone - the front end feels very busy with the M3 front bar. Of course this could be because my 100k+ shocks just can't handle the M3 bar action, but I digress. I'm hoping that the stiffer springs and Konis will give me the sharpness that the swaybar provides in transitions without the ride penalty and mechanical grip-killer that swaybar also, unfortunately, provides.

In short, short cuts don't really work in suspensions.
I wonder how much of your issues can be attributed to your alignment. I didn't experience any issues running a solid 27mm front sway bar with both non-sport and sport suspension.
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      06-20-2020, 03:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post

Sport - The sport seats are great. I had them fully loaded (elec, heat, lumber, side bolsters) in Black Dakota and the were really supportive and firm. The leather after using them still looked unbelievable. They should last forever. That being said a friend hooked me up with an M3 set and well, the rest was history.
Any chance you still have Sport seats (for sale)?
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      06-20-2020, 10:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
I wonder how much of your issues can be attributed to your alignment. I didn't experience any issues running a solid 27mm front sway bar with both non-sport and sport suspension.
I suspect not much, but I could be wrong. The swaybar was added after the camber plates and front stiffener were added. It was a true A/B test and the results are more pronounced than I would have liked. At first, it felt good, but then I noticed all the bad aspects over time. Mostly, I could feel manhole cover impacts in the drivers footwell when I was hitting them with the passenger wheel. After removing the toe-out things were much calmer at freeway speeds with respect to steering feel, but it I'm still not happy about the connected front end feeling.

Compounding this is likely the fact that I put a bit of Boeing T9 on the sway bar 'bearing/bushing'. This was likely not needed and allows even more torque transmitted which is likely most evident on the small bumps.

Interesting to note about your front aftermarket bar. Thinking back to my E46 M3 I also removed the aftermarket bar and preferred the way the car handled without it, so maybe it's just my preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by POBEP View Post
Any chance you still have Sport seats (for sale)?
Sorry, sold.

Last edited by tlow98; 06-21-2020 at 12:03 AM..
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      06-21-2020, 12:05 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Wow, that must have been a long way toe out! Small wonder it was flighty. Glad you're moving in the right direction. ATW has a good section on toe - you should have a read of that; helped me actually cut through the 'toe out 4 lyf' hype
It was at least 2.5mm out each side. Likely, a bit more. You were right about adding 1.7 degrees of camber - it affected the toe a lot!
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      06-21-2020, 06:03 PM   #33
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I interupt this regularly scheduled program to bring you a Father’s Day splurge.

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Going 80mph on the freeway you can barely hear it. Cross winds bring out a little more noise. They key to quiet operation is generally to get it as far back as possible. Going as far rearward with the front bar as is reasonable also helped a bunch. I think it got it out of the high pressure zone at the top of the windshield.

Anyway, holds more than I thought it would. Can do 3 medium suitcases with room to spare.

Seems pretty well built but have nothing else to compare it too. I dislike the giant BMW roundel, but nothing else on the market was as easy to integrate for the money. Only $50 more than Thule after taxes etc.

I think with just the bars on it actually made more noise which I found odd.

Pro Tip: The cheapest way to get one of these is to have it shipped to your BMW dealership and buy it from them. They will cut the price at least 10% if you ask and you don't have to pay for shipping, which is typically $180-250 from all other venders online. AKA, ECS.

Last edited by tlow98; 06-21-2020 at 09:28 PM..
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      06-21-2020, 10:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Wow, that must have been a long way toe out! Small wonder it was flighty. Glad you're moving in the right direction. ATW has a good section on toe - you should have a read of that; helped me actually cut through the 'toe out 4 lyf' hype
Turns out I needed about 1/2 turn on each adjuster to get to the factory spec for my situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
It was at least 2.5mm out each side. Likely, a bit more. You were right about adding 1.7 degrees of camber - it affected the toe a lot!
Ok, following up on this with some helpful toe adjustment information for those DIY'ing at home.

Each full turn of the toe adjuster on each wheel results in about 3.5mm of toe movement at the diameter of the wheel. 1/2 turn = 1.75mm. 1/4 turn = .875mm.

Turn each toe adjuster 1 full turn and you get ~7mm toe movement total toe measured at the diameter of the wheels.

You would need to measure toe in the same way I did for these amounts/ratios to work. I cut some aluminum stock slightly longer than the diameter for the total tire diameter and placed a centerline that aligned with the crosshairs on the roundel. Place a riser (brick or wood) to prop the aluminum stock about 4' off the ground in the center of the tire. Balance the rod on the riser. Take two tape measures and measure the front and rear distances with the tape measures stretched under the car.

Pro tip: Use both tape measures to measure a common object and make sure they measure the same length. Likely, they will be slightly different. Factor this into your measurements.
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      06-22-2020, 09:10 AM   #35
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@tlow98, any chance you could measure your D8 (or any springs you have out of the car right now) springs please? In particular the overall length. Something in my numbers doesn't seem to add up!
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      06-22-2020, 11:19 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
@tlow98, any chance you could measure your D8 (or any springs you have out of the car right now) springs please? In particular the overall length. Something in my numbers doesn't seem to add up!
Sure, so anything more than this?
- Length
- Diameter
- # coils
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      06-22-2020, 11:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
M3 seats so cheap these days why not? They are mega comfy. First mod that the wife was really on board with and that's saying something.
First off thanks for posting this up as a fellow long roofer, I like to see build threads, it's looking good.

Secondly, where are you finding m3 seats for cheap... I can't seem to find any cheap unless they are trashed, Really looking for a set of heated black ones.
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      06-22-2020, 01:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
Sure, so anything more than this?
- Length
- Diameter
- # coils
I mean, it would be super handy to have reasonably accurate measurements for their diameter...but it's not easy to measure! Just top / middle / bottom would do nicely. I use the diameter at the centre of the wire for calcs, but that's easy to calculate so long as I know whether the measurement is ID/OD. And wire diameter too, please, if you've got verniers to hand.

Thanks a lot!
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      06-22-2020, 11:30 PM   #39
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So, just for the record, this is a D7 spring. Dunno why in my head I thought I had D8s. Anyway, moving on.

Length = 328mm

OD Top = 141mm - taken perpendicular to the final top coil endpoint (first pic)
OD Middle = 144mm
OD Bottom = 104mm - taken perpendicular as above

Diameter for wire with vernier = .45" or 11.43mm
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      06-22-2020, 11:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
First off thanks for posting this up as a fellow long roofer, I like to see build threads, it's looking good.

Secondly, where are you finding m3 seats for cheap... I can't seem to find any cheap unless they are trashed, Really looking for a set of heated black ones.
Mine came from a friend, but I had quite a few comms with Specialized German in Sacramento. Each time I called they had 2-3 sets of black used ones in stock. 2-300per depending on condition.
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      06-23-2020, 02:23 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
So, just for the record, this is a D7 spring. Dunno why in my head I thought I had D8s. Anyway, moving on.

Length = 328mm

OD Top = 141mm - taken perpendicular to the final top coil endpoint (first pic)
OD Middle = 144mm
OD Bottom = 104mm - taken perpendicular as above

Diameter for wire with vernier = .45" or 11.43mm
Thanks!

Hmm, I think unfortunately that my spreadsheet method is all just too inaccurate/variable. Also the measurements of the aftermarket springs are significantly different from what you just measured. I'm now even more interested to see the results of your install! When do you think you'll be doing it?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t?usp=drivesdk

Last edited by Tambohamilton; 06-23-2020 at 03:54 AM..
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      06-23-2020, 02:52 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Thanks!

Hmm, I think unfortunately that my spreadsheet method is all just too inaccurate/variable. Also the measurements of the aftermarket springs are significantly different from what you just measured. I'm now even more interested to see the results of your install! When do you think you'll be doing it?
Well, sometime in the next few weeks. Have to find the time and waiting on the last bits to arrive. I should be able to build my front struts this coming weekend. I ended up just buying everything to build complete struts so the swap should be relatively fast. I didn't want to mess with swapping all the old bits and pieces over, especially if the are 70% shot.
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      06-23-2020, 04:04 AM   #43
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Good call. Do it right, do it once.
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      06-29-2020, 12:34 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Good call. Do it right, do it once.
Just got a chance to double check your spreadsheet. I',m quite positive the Diameter was 11.5-ish mm. No way was it above 12. Checked this measurement a few ways - including wrapping a wire and working back from the circumference. It was 11.45 ish each and every way double-checked. Verniers were dead on 11.40-11.45 each time.
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