[Ten-Zing]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

there are plenty of people running the same combo with Eldor coils and no issues.

Probably not for long. People running with this much under their hood won't sit on stock stuff for long when they realize there are other more modern options that give them if not more performance potentially better reliability. In 5 years you probably won't see an N54 running any kind of tune with stock ignition, or be hard pressed to. (I mean, you could be the last adopter)

I had 12 Eldor coils and was swapping them out and running the car hard and it would go for a week or two or more. Then I would get one to go, do the swap thing and see if it follows, plugs, etc... It got to where I stopped replacing the air filter box so I could get to Cylinder 5 & 6 easier. I would log, update tunes, then lose a coil, then feel it necessary to re-log on old tune prior to loading new tune, etc.

I could maybe start logging again and compare new logs to old (B58 vs. N54), but that's not worth it to me. New coils, moving on, haven't logged yet, been running a month on same tune that needs updating but haven't had time to run it out to get new tune. Trying to verify it will keep running good before logging and it has been flawless so far. All observations are anecdotal up to this point.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by Ten-Zing

Probably not for long. People running with this much under their hood won't sit on stock stuff for long when they realize there are other more modern options that give them if not more performance potentially better reliability. In 5 years you probably won't see an N54 running any kind of tune with stock ignition, or be hard pressed to. (I mean, you could be the last adopter)

I had 12 Eldor coils and was swapping them out and running the car hard and it would go for a week or two or more. Then I would get one to go, do the swap thing and see if it follows, plugs, etc... It got to where I stopped replacing the air filter box so I could get to Cylinder 5 & 6 easier. I would log, update tunes, then lose a coil, then feel it necessary to re-log on old tune prior to loading new tune, etc.

I could maybe start logging again and compare new logs to old (B58 vs. N54), but that's not worth it to me. New coils, moving on, haven't logged yet, been running a month on same tune that needs updating but haven't had time to run it out to get new tune. Trying to verify it will keep running good before logging and it has been flawless so far. All observations are anecdotal up to this point.

How long is not for long?

I've had Delphi/Eldor Coils for almost 3 years+ no problems with the Coils. Didn't swap or have any misfires since having them installed with OEM Bosch plugs. Only some minor timing corrections due to old injectors.

S55 uses the same type of coils on 450bhp+ cars stock, pretty sure they can handle a FBO N54 with similar power easily.

If the coils go out after 5+ years no big deal in my opinion since they don't even cost a lot.

[Ten-Zing]

It would be ironically just as easy for me to ask for you to qualify and define your subjective statements as you seem so prevalent to do to mine. Define 'no problems' 'minor timing corrections' 'same type' 'pretty sure' 'can handle' 'similar power easily' 'no big deal' 'don't cost a lot'....

I can also hammer in on statements like this: 'because there are plenty of people running the same combo with Eldor coils and no issues.'

Then ask a person to define or qualify the statement of 'plenty' 'same combo' 'no issues'...

Then recite elementary level statistics quotes like this: 'Correlation does not equal causation...' and demand to see more data to prove a stance where the cost of the upgrade only warrants anecdotal information not 20 hours of pre and post install data collection.

Not really all that constructive though is it?

So 'good enough' and 'need more data' is the 'x$ must = 2xHP' crowd. If x$ must = 2xHP, I'm not even sure the N54 platform is 'for' that person, but I digress.

If you are a person that is asking the question: 'Is a coil upgrade worth the $ for my N54 car?' My answer to you is 'Yes' it is worth it. I recommend the B58 coil upgrade and have ran both the N54 Eldor and B58 Eldor coils on the same engine. I have no data to provide other than I am confident you will be happy with the $ spent. If your "opinion" is that the N54 pencil style is 'Good Enough' for you and thus it will and shall be 'Good Enough' for all others, and you insist on hammering at those that disagree my response is "Go pound sand, and have fun on your ebay budget car". Because most people asking the above question more than likely aren't even of your ilk to begin with.

VRSF charge pipe - $180 - No HP
VRSF FMIC - $480 - No HP
Index 12 injectors - ~$1,500 - No HP
TurboSmart Kompact BOV - $480 - No HP

Does my car run more repeatable and reliable as a result of the above 0 HP work I have done? Yes, and I am confident I will be able to say the same about my B58 coils. The data I have reviewed and the fact that BMW now runs them is a pretty good indicator that its a solid bet.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by Ten-Zing

It would be ironically just as easy for me to ask for you to qualify and define your subjective statements as you seem so prevalent to do to mine. Define 'no problems' 'minor timing corrections' 'same type' 'pretty sure' 'can handle' 'similar power easily' 'no big deal' 'don't cost a lot'....

I can also hammer in on statements like this: 'because there are plenty of people running the same combo with Eldor coils and no issues.'

Then ask a person to define or qualify the statement of 'plenty' 'same combo' 'no issues'...

Then recite elementary level statistics quotes like this: 'Correlation does not equal causation...' and demand to see more data to prove a stance where the cost of the upgrade only warrants anecdotal information not 20 hours of pre and post install data collection.

Not really all that constructive though is it?

So 'good enough' and 'need more data' is the 'x$ must = 2xHP' crowd. If x$ must = 2xHP, I'm not even sure the N54 platform is 'for' that person, but I digress.

If you are a person that is asking the question: 'Is a coil upgrade worth the $ for my N54 car?' My answer to you is 'Yes' it is worth it. I recommend the B58 coil upgrade and have ran both the N54 Eldor and B58 Eldor coils on the same engine. I have no data to provide other than I am confident you will be happy with the $ spent. If your "opinion" is that the N54 pencil style is 'Good Enough' for you and thus it will and shall be 'Good Enough' for all others, and you insist on hammering at those that disagree my response is "Go pound sand, and have fun on your ebay budget car". Because most people asking the above question more than likely aren't even of your ilk to begin with.

VRSF charge pipe - $180 - No HP
VRSF FMIC - $480 - No HP
Index 12 injectors - ~$1,500 - No HP
TurboSmart Kompact BOV - $480 - No HP

Does my car run more repeatable and reliable as a result of the above 0 HP work I have done? Yes, and I am confident I will be able to say the same about my B58 coils. The data I have reviewed and the fact that BMW now runs them is a pretty good indicator that its a solid bet.

Plastic charge pipe cracks or blows, it isn't for hp it's for reliability.
FMIC allows higher boost with less timing corrections, more consistency and consistency, this is visible in Datalog, so in the end more horsepower /torque

Index 12 injectors improve the running of the car, nobody said otherwise and this is visible on Datalog

Aftermarket BOV or DV is more of personal choice /sound etc,

Nobody here is talking about Ebay budget cars, I merely mentioned that I got brand new Eldor Coils and OEM plugs from Ebay under $200, looks like your a bit salty.

[NoGuru]

Ten-Zing has some really good points. In the end, it's all about what is right for your setup and budget.

I like to go to the track with my car and if I think I can get a .001 faster or improved reliability for a fair price I will go that route.

I'll take current technology or old stuff most of the time, but that's just my preference.

[stewbets]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I understand what you are saying......but comparing a faulty leaking injector(s) to new injectors is not the same as comparing good working condition OEM coils to good working condition aftermarket coils.....there just isn't a big enough difference when you are talking about a FBO car with stock turbos.

Of coarse you felt a big difference....you had multiple leaking injectors. They were bad....you could see it on a log, and you could also see on the log how the new injectors corrected the issues you were having. Data.

Who's to say replacing your good oem coils with good B58 coils wouldn't get you the same improvement that replacing leaking injectors got you? Come on....do I really have to answer that? You are comparing apples to oranges.

Oh boy, you got me. Your subjective statements based on zero substance as well as your misrepresentation of things I said has really won the day. But I’ve got a new angle for you now. Ten-Zing made all this coil improvement stuff up and is just trolling us. Go get him!

[iqraceworks]

I've never looked into the details (because I've never had ignition issues with my oem coils).....but in order to make the B58 coils work on the N54.....doesn't that requiring wiring changes/and or adapters? Also additional mounting plate adapters and hardware? And modifications to the springs inside the coils?

With all of the additional possible failure points you are adding vs. the stock coils.......does this really make the B58 coils "more reliable"?

Just wondering.......

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by stewbets

Oh boy, you got me. Your subjective statements based on zero substance as well as your misrepresentation of things I said has really won the day. But I’ve got a new angle for you now. Ten-Zing made all this coil improvement stuff up and is just trolling us. Go get him!

No need to get triggered!!

[Saif2018]

[stewbets]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Stock turbo's there's probably no reason to upgrade stick with Eldors. My personal experience on upgraded turbos' is that I was able to run more timing advance and a bigger gap on NGK 2 step colder plugs. More specifically I went from getting timing corrections at around 6 degrees of timing on bosch coils to being able to get to 9 degrees with the PR coils. Additionally I was able to widen the gap of my plugs to .22 with PR coils from .20 on stock coils. All on 95 octane and 22 PSI.

So were you able to run 3 additional degrees of timing with only a coil upgrade? Did you also swap in new plugs? I'd like to figure out more of the relationship between coils and timing corrections.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by stewbets

So were you able to run 3 additional degrees of timing with only a coil upgrade? Did you also swap in new plugs? I'd like to figure out more of the relationship between coils and timing corrections.

Yeah....I'm trying to figure that out also. 3 degrees is huge......I can't think of a logical reason why different coils would let you run more timing.

Unless there is some sort of delay in the signal/firing action of the new coils and you are actually getting less advance than you are targeting. Or ...was there a change in ambient air temps between logs? Or was there a different brand/type/octane of fuel used? We're new plugs use and/or different gap specs?

Lots of variables to look at. If a set of aftermarket coils could instantly get you 2-3 degrees of more timing without knocking......that would be huge, but you sure don't see anyone advertising or mentioning that....so it makes me wonder.

In for more info......

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by stewbets

So were you able to run 3 additional degrees of timing with only a coil upgrade? Did you also swap in new plugs? I'd like to figure out more of the relationship between coils and timing corrections.

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Yeah....I'm trying to figure that out also. 3 degrees is huge......I can't think of a logical reason why different coils would let you run more timing.

Unless there is some sort of delay in the signal/firing action of the new coils and you are actually getting less advance than you are targeting. Or ...was there a change in ambient air temps between logs? Or was there a different brand/type/octane of fuel used? We're new plugs use and/or different gap specs?

Lots of variables to look at. If a set of aftermarket coils could instantly get you 2-3 degrees of more timing without knocking......that would be huge, but you sure don't see anyone advertising or mentioning that....so it makes me wonder.

In for more info......

Again I'm no expert, just reporting what was my experience. It Could have been my coils were bad, but they probably only had about 20k miles on them and I was getting corrections across all cylinders. All things were pretty much equal, actually I ended up widen the gap on my plugs after the PR coils.