[Perfectus]

My wife got a reckless driving ticket in Prince William County recently, 85 in a 55. She's had a clean record until this year. She got a reg. speeding ticket about 2/3 months ago. So I'm thinking we need a lawyer to get through this reckless ticket.

Anyone have any recommendations for a lawyer or advice?

[cotmfk]

VA is horrible with this stuff. Does she have a VA license? I believe VA calls wreckless a misdemeanor. So, that stuff will stay on her record forever. I would definitely get a lawyer, at least to reduce the charge down from reckless. VA really is horrible with it's traffic laws.

[DoNDoN]

Start driving classes ASAP. Get a copy of your driving record. Get a lawyer.

Good luck.

[Bulldog 6]

She can do the on-line course (the test is administered at a testing site though). In court she will have to ask the the option it is not readily offered. The Judge told us at the begining of court that we had to ask for it he would not assign it.

[WeeMan335]

definitely get a lawyer, it will cost you 750 - 1000 which is a chunk of chain for sure but in the end it will save you alot of grief..

[bavarian19]

If it were closer to 20 over (the minimum for reckless), a judge might be a bit more forgiving than 30 over.

[cb1111]

While some folks will say "do it without a lawyer" the risks of screwing it up are pretty huge and can affect your insurance rates, employment and quality of life for years.

Given PWC's reputation for judges, I'd suggest finding a good local lawyer. FWIW, reckless convictions can result in jail time in VA and I've heard of drivers being handcuffed and dragged off to jail on the spot. You don't want that to happen to your sweetie.

http://www.vatrafficlaw.com/reckless.html

http://www.vacriminaldefenselawyer.c...ssdriving.html

I'm not endorsing either of these two firm, but included them to give you an overview of the seriousness of the charge.

Quite simply, there are three basic categories of "speeding - reckless driving" in VA. The first, and simplest of course is the 20mph over the speed limit. This is one that you might be able to handle yourself after your initial consultation with a lawyer.

The second, and one that can easily include a suspension of the driver's license in "over 80mph" while the third "over 85" might actually result in jail time.

Most lawyers will do a free consultation and will tell you if you really need their services.

[Mookie469]

What i have done in the past was talk directly with the Defense Attorney and ask him/her if they can lower down the charge. That actually worked for me several times now and this wont cost you anything. The only thing you have to do is go to their office and ask them and thats it. You still have to pay the ticket but it will be a lower fine for it. Again is worth to try it and this way you dont have to pay a lawyer to do anything. If that doesnt work you should go with a lawyer. Good luck.

[Spydeputy]

is the sole reason for the reckless charge her speed or are there other contributing factors? i.e. lane changing, no signal, tailgating, etc....

[Perfectus]

Originally Posted by Mookie469

What i have done in the past was talk directly with the Defense Attorney and ask him/her if they can lower down the charge. That actually worked for me several times now and this wont cost you anything. The only thing you have to do is go to their office and ask them and thats it. You still have to pay the ticket but it will be a lower fine for it. Again is worth to try it and this way you dont have to pay a lawyer to do anything. If that doesnt work you should go with a lawyer. Good luck.

How can we find out who the defense attorney is assigned to the case?

[Perfectus]

Originally Posted by Spydeputy

is the sole reason for the reckless charge her speed or are there other contributing factors? i.e. lane changing, no signal, tailgating, etc....

nothing extra on the ticket. she was on pw county pkwy around 9pm on a weekday, empty road and the cop was driving the opposite direction. after they passed eachother he bucked a U and pulled her over. he first stated she was going 83 but wrote 85 on the ticket.

[333sp]

Originally Posted by Perfectus

How can we find out who the defense attorney is assigned to the case?

It is called a prosecutor / state's attorney... defense attorney is for the defendant = you.

I don't know how it works out there in the country but usually a prosecutor won't be assigned to a traffic case until it is close to court date and actually put on docket. Call state's attorney's office for jurisdiction and ask.

As to pre-trial contact with presecutor by yourself I would say that is not very common course of action for defendant and be aware that the prosecutor could for sure bring that up to judge at trial "your honor, defedant called me to try and avoid coming before your bench...blah blah blah" and obviously a judge might not like that.

That is what lawyers are for, you pay them, they call the prosecutor (usually young recent law grads) and they work out some kind of shady backroom deal where state gets to suck some money from defendant and later in return for their cumulative "help" over time atty.s assist prosecutors find real atty. jobs when they are done with their stepping-stone state's atty. position.... or just owe them whatever kind of legal "favor", payoff, what have you down the road.... trust me that is how it works.

It's all fixed, a big scam. As long as everybody gets paid and the judge's ego gets stroked (or at least not stepped on) you should be half-ok. Find a lawyer who spends a lot of time in the jurisdiction and ask them point blank "do you have connections at the state's attorney's office - if so who precisely - and is this a case where you could talk to them pretrial and bargain with them"? If an atty. tells you something like "in this kind of case it is best to not deal with state's atty's office and put the merits before the judge"... that is BS... he has no connections there.

To find someone like that and actually qualify their connections one thing to do - takes time but can be entertaining - is call the court and ask what days traffic docket is heard and go there and sit in courtroom and listen and see what defense lawyers are telling the judge "your honer the state's attorney and I have reached a deal...blah blah blah".... those are the influence peddling connected scamster atty.s plugged into the state's atty's office and just follow them out of courtroom and ask to talk to them, they will talk to you, that is their scam... I mean business, or get name off docket and just phone them. Also could be some sentencing guidlines at play skince VA's most recent speeding clampdown, not sure, but atty. brokering deal could help skirt that too.

I do for sure know people who have had to spend weekends in jail for serious traffic offenses in VA. I wouldn't risk it going in cold turkey esp. with recent prior traffic violations. VA clearly has been trying to soundboard "dont speed here" for years and more and more so recently.... it is the only state in country I think where radar detectors are illegal..... so don't tee up an opportunity for them to make you part of the example. Judges are just like anyone else, some are cool - sometimes, some are worthy of being drop-kicked across the courtroom all the time. Some jurisdictions have lienient judges and some have egotistical tyrants, most have some of each. Its like rolling dice.

[vbb]

I tend to stay out of these discussions, but some of your response just begs comment because I'd hate for this guy to be misinformed.

Originally Posted by 333sp

As to pre-trial contact with presecutor by yourself I would say that is not very common course of action for defendant and be aware that the prosecutor could for sure bring that up to judge at trial "your honor, defedant called me to try and avoid coming before your bench...blah blah blah" and obviously a judge might not like that.

While a defendant calling the prosecutor directly is uncommon, it's worth a try. The prosecutor generally has discretion to plea bargain on most charges, and whether you represent yourself (pro se) or you have an attorney, they'll usually talk to the other side. They aren't required to, but it doesn't hurt to try. And no, they aren't going to hold the fact that you tried to plea bargain the case against you in front of the judge, unless of course you try to do something illegal (like bribe them).

That is what lawyers are for, you pay them, they call the prosecutor (usually young recent law grads) and they work out some kind of shady backroom deal where state gets to suck some money from defendant and later in return for their cumulative "help" over time atty.s assist prosecutors find real atty. jobs when they are done with their stepping-stone state's atty. position.... or just owe them whatever kind of legal "favor", payoff, what have you down the road.... trust me that is how it works.

Sorry man, you're just wrong on this. Most prosecutors and defense attorneys have good relationships with each other. Sure, they're on opposite sides of the Bar, but they work with each other every day. There's nothing "shady" or backroom about plea bargaining. It's expected. And on cases as minor as speeding tickets, it's especially common.

It's all fixed, a big scam. As long as everybody gets paid and the judge's ego gets stroked (or at least not stepped on) you should be half-ok.

This ain’t Mexico dude. Prosecutors aren’t doing legal favors for defense attorneys and then getting some sort of secret kick-back in the end. Has that ever happened? Sure I bet it has. But it is FAR from a big scam. Nobody is going to risk their license to practice law and their entire career over a some unethical scam over some speeding tickets, that’s for sure.

Find a lawyer who spends a lot of time in the jurisdiction and ask them point blank "do you have connections at the state's attorney's office - if so who precisely - and is this a case where you could talk to them pretrial and bargain with them"? If an atty. tells you something like "in this kind of case it is best to not deal with state's atty's office and put the merits before the judge"... that is BS... he has no connections there.

This is somewhat good advice. Although there’s no scam involved, the defense attorney who is well known and liked around the courthouse is probably going to be able to work out a better plea bargain for you. That’s just common sense.

To find someone like that and actually qualify their connections one thing to do - takes time but can be entertaining - is call the court and ask what days traffic docket is heard and go there and sit in courtroom and listen and see what defense lawyers are telling the judge "your honer the state's attorney and I have reached a deal...blah blah blah".... those are the influence peddling connected scamster atty.s plugged into the state's atty's office and just follow them out of courtroom and ask to talk to them, they will talk to you, that is their scam... I mean business, or get name off docket and just phone them. Also could be some sentencing guidlines at play skince VA's most recent speeding clampdown, not sure, but atty. brokering deal could help skirt that too.

Sitting in court for an hour to so to kind of see what attorneys are out there might not be a bad idea. Reckless driving carries a max penalty of 12 months in jail and a $2500 fine in VA, but nobody ever gets anything close to that. The rest of what you said is more tin-foil hat conspiracy theory BS that can be ignored.

I do for sure know people who have had to spend weekends in jail for serious traffic offenses in VA. I wouldn't risk it going in cold turkey esp. with recent prior traffic violations. VA clearly has been trying to soundboard "dont speed here" for years and more and more so recently.... it is the only state in country I think where radar detectors are illegal..... so don't tee up an opportunity for them to make you part of the example. Judges are just like anyone else, some are cool - sometimes, some are worthy of being drop-kicked across the courtroom all the time. Some jurisdictions have lienient judges and some have egotistical tyrants, most have some of each. Its like rolling dice.

VA is definitely cracking down on traffic tickets, and yes, some people even get jail for reckless driving. It’s rare, but I know it has happened before. And yes, some judges are lenient, and some are super strict. That is like rolling the dice on which one you get, so hopefully the OP’s wife gets lucky.

One thing to remember is that you always have the right to appeal the decision of the traffic court to the circuit court. In circuit, you get a brand new judge and a brand new trial. Of course the downside is the circuit judge could technically give you a worse sentence than the traffic court judge… but often it’s a little better. So your wife will have two bites at the apple if she wants. The worst part about her situation is that she just got another speeding ticket a few months ago. I’d tell her to take a DMV safe driver class in advance of going to court, just so she can show the judge she’s trying. Good luck to her.

[333sp]

[QUOTE=vbb;6443746]I tend to stay out of these discussions, but some of your response just begs comment because I'd hate for this guy to be misinformed.

OK - so what I get from this is that you think I did basically give him sound advice right? Find a connected atty. and cop the best deal you can? Any answer other than that is misinformation.

You just don't like my flavorization that it the system has morphed into more of a scam designed to ensure certain parties are financially compensated - directly or indirectly - at some point in time rather than its original intention of being a system designed to dissuade criminal activity / ensure safe transportation what have you.

I agree with you that it isn't balck & white. I just disagree on the proportion. And I'm not saying defense atty.s slip prosecutors rolls of cash and you know that. But in my probably better-than semi-qualified-opinion I say most pleas involve extremely conflicted interests that don't serve to carry out the legislative intent at all and then people involved typically try to explain and justify these self-serving interests all away under some kind of guise of jusicial efficiency. And you're right, it isn't Mexico, Mexico has nowhere near the incarceration rate of US. And plenty of those people we pay umpteen bazillion dollars to incarcerate start out with a small charge like we're discussing, don't play the game to pay who needs to be paid to get out from under it, then violate some post conviction condition and go up and up until they're trapped.... and we all pay for it not to mention their life is ruined. OK - I see the circles of the argument... "these pleas you say are scams stop people from going to jail in the first place"...agreed... just pay who you need to pay and be done with it.

I went to school with plenty of people who went the prosecutor - crim defense route and nobody denies that is a big part of how the game is played. I am not misinforming the guy as to anything material to his situation. I say it is predominantly a money fueled scam, esp. at misdemeanor / traffic level, you obviously don't think it is so we can agree to disagree.

One point of yours I do definitely disagree with is, I would not personally talk to the prosecutor. Anything you say to them can be used against you.... "well I was speeding but I'm a good guy can you cut me a break". Not a good thing to say. You're best intentions to deal with the situation pre-trial could seal your fate as fast as the words cross your lips. The communication will not be previleged / confidential and there will be no prefessional standards of conduct applied as if any atty. representing called. Am I right?

One thing I do agree with is the appeal bit. Reckless driving in district court and you are like the worst scoundrel that ever entered the building, circ. court a lot of the other defendants will be brought in in shackles and a traffic offense is like oh big deal. BUT.... I say it is WAY better to do away with it before it gets to that point. You will have all the stress plus some after convicted in district crt. and you're waiting for appeal date, I know in MD the DMV will start thier end of the whip-lashing as soon as the district court verdict is entered (i.e. you could lose liscense immediately even though appeal is pending)....AND a crim. defense attorney is typically going to charge you more for representation in circ. court upon appeal than district court, and if you had them for you're "first bite" they collected from you too for that unsuccesful outcome . Seems pretty obvious my quoter has some kind of crim. defense link. Am I right about that .... your "second bite" costs a lot more money right? Funny you're saying there is no scam factor and you didn't mention that.

Most important thing is try to help the guy out, not argue over the social fabric of the US crim justice system... so here I'll give up something else I honestly believe but mr. crim defense atty. probably won't like .... the "best" most "connected" crim. defense atty.s are ones who were cops in the same or nieghboring jurisdictions, and if you can find one who was a crooked and/or ball-buster cop, they are the very best.... the ones who tried to ruin lives by twisting or bending facts in crim. charges because it served their personal career interests at the time are the same ones who if go on to become crim. defense atty.s on other side of fence will bend and twist and wheel and deal and do whatever it takes to get you expeditiously out from under your situation.... and why?.... precisely because it serves their personal best interests at this time, they get paid and all they do is make a 10 min. phone call and then on to the next case, and you see it is the next generation of overzelous cops who feed them a healthy stable of compromised clients... and round and round it goes.

Make the time investment, go sit in the court and see what atty.s are getting the best pleas to the worst charges, hire them, pay them, and be done with it. And I do agree, completed DMV safety course could always help to have in your pocket.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by 333sp

OK - so what I get from this is that you think I did basically give him sound advice right? Find a connected atty. and cop the best deal you can? Any answer other than that is misinformation.

Yes, he should find a connected attorney and try and get the best deal he can get. If that's what you were really trying to say, then I'm not sure why you went on and on editorializing about the corrupt system.

Without responding directly to everything you just typed, let me say this... I still think you've got a warped sense of what really goes on. Does the county/city/state have a thinly veiled interest in having their cops write a lot of tickets so that they can bring in more revenue for the locality? Yes, I can see that. But your idea that the "system" is really just a money grab and has little to do with safety is a little myopic. Moreover, your thought that it's all one big scam between the prosecutors and defense attorneys is just plain wrong. Defense attorneys want people to feel like they need to get attorneys, because that's how they get paid. They LOVE when people get reckless driving and other minor traffic tickets, because those people generally aren't scum bags like the "real" criminals they represent a lot of the time. Anyone can get a traffic ticket and they're generally easy clients to deal with.

Prosecutors are generally overworked and they just want to get the traffic dockets over with, so cutting deals is often in their best interests. Some of the judges act like the court is their kingdom and treat every traffic case like it is the OJ trial... but most of them hate dealing with traffic dockets day in and day out too. How many times can they hear someone whine about the calibration on their speedometer being off before they start going crazy or daydreaming about being somewhere else?

One point of yours I do definitely disagree with is, I would not personally talk to the prosecutor. Anything you say to them can be used against you.... "well I was speeding but I'm a good guy can you cut me a break". Not a good thing to say. You're best intentions to deal with the situation pre-trial could seal your fate as fast as the words cross your lips. The communication will not be previleged / confidential and there will be no prefessional standards of conduct applied as if any atty. representing called. Am I right?

Not exactly. The Miranda warnings (anything you say can be used against you...) apply to someone who is in custody and is being questioned. This almost exclusively deals with what someone says to a police officer or detective. If you called the prosecutor to try and work something out, the worst they can do is just ignore your call. They can't tell the judge specifically what you said to them (ex:"I'm a good guy, cut me a break", etc) for a very simple reason: A prosecutor can't testify in their own case. They're not sworn witnesses and under oath like the police officers are. They ask the questions, not answer them. The only way what you say to a prosecutor comes in to evidence is if they get ANOTHER prosecutor to question them, and then they decide to get sworn in as a witness. You're not going to find a DA's office that has the time or effort to have their own prosecutors making each other witnesses over traffic tickets.

BUT.... I say it is WAY better to do away with it before it gets to that point.

I agree. If you get a decent result in lower court, don't even bother appealing up to circuit court. It isn't worth the risk.

Seems pretty obvious my quoter has some kind of crim. defense link. Am I right about that .... your "second bite" costs a lot more money right? Funny you're saying there is no scam factor and you didn't mention that.

Now you're reaching. Actually it's quite the contrary. For many people, unless you were going REALLY fast, or have a bad record, or a few other special circumstances, it isn't a bad idea to skip the attorney part and just throw yourself on the mercy of the court. It costs you nothing to represent yourself, and you may get a good judge to knock the charge down a bit for you. That way, you've spent nothing except your time and gotten a good result. If you get hammered, THEN you can appeal, and get an attorney to help you out. That way you only pay a max of one time instead of twice.

so here I'll give up something else I honestly believe but mr. crim defense atty. probably won't like .... the "best" most "connected" crim. defense atty.s are ones who were cops in the same or nieghboring jurisdictions,

No, the best criminal defense attorneys were former prosecutors. Ask me how I know.

[333sp]

Originally Posted by vbb

Yes, he should find a connected attorney and try and get the best deal he can get. If that's what you were really trying to say, then I'm not sure why you went on and on editorializing about the corrupt system.

Well the answer is obvious here.... sign up to be a forum sponsor, push your services, distribute sponsor cost across all the BMW speed deamon offenders you'll get here and represent the poor guy's wife!

I did know Mirandized only dealt with in-custody communications but didn't know prosecutors can't offer what amounts to testimony in court. Good to know. I will undoubtedly, unfortuantely, have a time when I make use of that info. sometime in the future.

I'm probably not as jaded on the "corrupt system" as I might have sounded (something along Churchill line..."it is the worst system in the world except for everything else") but like you were saying traffic issues are basically a nuisance to judges, prosecutors etc. - they do make a lot of easy money for defense atty.s as you said - but for being a nuisance to the legal system they sure do ruin a lot of peoples lives. It doesn't take much imagination to see the very possible outcomes, liscense suspended and then either stop driving and inevitably causes work problems leads to money problems in already bad time leads to all kinds of personal destruction and family dysfunction OR lose liscense and drive anyway and if you get caught then you are really screwed.

Main point = VA is way way out of control on speeding and most other states I deal in are plenty bad too. The US just has so much stupidness when it comes to auto transit it kills me. The laws are stupid, cars going all different levels of speed in every lane, semis everywhere, people drive around in cars - legally - all day long that are total crap when it comes to operating condition, texting, playing with iPod, eating, smoking or whatever and they are taking liscenses, throwing people in jail and ruining their life for driving 85 mph in thier high performance auto on what amounts to a 6 lane superhighway?? I guarantee you 1000% that having and enforcing a law that can only pass cars to your right would reduce accidents 100x what any speeding enforcement would do. But it isn't going to change so just deal with it... or move. I highly recommend Switzerland. Now they'll bust your ass for speeding too, but they won't ruin your life for it so long as your car is found to have been mechanically fit for the task.

[Mookie469]

Originally Posted by Perfectus

How can we find out who the defense attorney is assigned to the case?

Just go to the court house and ask for the DA office, take the ticket with you and all the documentation if you have any.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by 333sp

Well the answer is obvious here.... sign up to be a forum sponsor, push your services, distribute sponsor cost across all the BMW speed deamon offenders you'll get here and represent the poor guy's wife!

Haha, no. I practice corporate law pretty exclusively these days. Normally, I'd just stay out of these types of conversations entirely, but I felt compelled to say something given your posts.

[Perfectus]

Thanks all for your replies. We're getting a lawyer ASAP.

[brinkmann]

I really think a lawyer is going to be a waste of money here. If she takes driving school before her court date and otherwise has a clean record, there is a 95% chance that the judge will reduce the ticket a lesser offense.

It's worked for me and I've seen it work for countless others, good luck with everything though.

[Perfectus]

Originally Posted by brinkmann

I really think a lawyer is going to be a waste of money here. If she takes driving school before her court date and otherwise has a clean record, there is a 95% chance that the judge will reduce the ticket a lesser offense.

It's worked for me and I've seen it work for countless others, good luck with everything though.

Her record is clean except for this year. She has two tickets in the past 9 month with the last one just 2 months ago.

[333sp]

Originally Posted by Perfectus

Her record is clean except for this year. She has two tickets in the past 9 month with the last one just 2 months ago.

You heard what vbb had to say... and he is an ex. prosecutor. I have a bit of legal experience myself - dealing with commercial judicial system in general - and a lot of personal fighting traffic offense experience... don't risk it. You can probably tell from my prior posts on thread I am not a fan of how in my opinion system frequently works, but whether you are buying atty.'s courtroom defense skills or connections just do it and invest the time to find a good connected one. I wouldn't delay either.

Ask vbb, I'd say for sure coming up to judge with this situation w/out atty. could be a seen as a real snubbing of your nose about seriousness of matter... not what you want. The wrong judge on the wrong day and you're doomed. Not trying to freak you out but is honestly what I think and I hate to see bad things happen to ANYONE over stupid s--t like VA speeding laws.

You know what you're up against as far as max penalties etc. It isn't worth it. Consider the consequences. If worst case was no big deal, gambling might not be a totally stupid choice, but here I strongly suggest plan for the worst and hope for the best. If you can cut a good deal pre-trial it will be over with and stress gone. That alone would be worth it for me.... wait till it gets closer if you decide to wing it.... unless your veins run ice cold the stress needle will rise.