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      09-23-2020, 11:15 PM   #23
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How is this Gov gonna fix the power grid to accommodate the extra power needed to recharge millions of Ev cars? We have continuous rolling blackouts through out the state.
Would of been better if this guy would of propose a fix for that before forcing electric cars on all.
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      09-23-2020, 11:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
The electric grid was overloaded because half the state was on fire, which when that is the case they turn off the huge transmission wires. The grid is only a problem when the state is on fire and we have abnormal spikes in temperature.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-paradise-fire
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      09-24-2020, 12:13 AM   #25
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About time. It's easily doable if you have The means. I love how at the press conference our almighty supreme leader had a $100,000 Tesla parked next to a $60000 Tesla parked next to a $60,000 Mustang parked next to an $80,000 Audi all situated behind him. Yeah this is easily affordable for the average California. :
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      09-24-2020, 01:23 AM   #26
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This is a ban on new combustion engine cars that won't go into effect until 2035. With how much progress electric cars have made in the last 15 years, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see similar (or even exponentially more) improvement in the next 15 years. Its entirely possible that gasoline cars won't be relevant anyway.
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      09-24-2020, 01:31 AM   #27
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In for the "everyone is going to leave California" comments
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      09-24-2020, 03:33 AM   #28
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UK announced a move like this too few months back. Ban on all gasoline and diesel vehicle sales by 2035
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      09-24-2020, 05:21 AM   #29
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All of a sudden some stooge in parliament made an announcement that new fuel car sales will be banned in 15 years time when at first it was 20 years in UK..just like in California these 'announcements' should be taken with a pinch of salt.
The brainless vegetarian jobsworths that blurt them out will soon die and be replaced by people with some common sense.
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      09-24-2020, 06:00 AM   #30
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So the average life expectancy of a new car is something like 11.5 years, in 14 years buy your last new ICE and that gets you to 25 years from now.....are they going to ban the sale of used? That could still leave a great market for sports cars, collector etc.
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      09-24-2020, 07:07 AM   #31
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This is only for new-car sales. Doesn't keep you from buying or owning a used ICE vehicle.

California has been the leader in emission regulation and fuel economy legislation. It was gradually being adopted by many other states including most of the population centers in the NE USA. The regulations drove the manufacturers to build cleaner cars when many insisted it couldn't be done, or that performance would suffer. So now we sell BMWs with over 600-hp that meet those standards. How was that bad? If not for the regulations our climate would be far worse, but now we're backsliding as the current administration in DC seeks to rollback any and all legislation done under Obama, without regard for how it hurst the citizens of the country unless they happen to be business owners. That's short-sighted and harmful to our world and the impact is felt far beyond our borders.

I'll keep the ICE stick-shift cars I have. I'll likely be dead by the time these regulations would have any affect on me. But my grandchildren (should I have any) will be the beneficiaries of this forward thinking.

Now lets figure out how to make ALL electric power from the sun and the wind.

I do wonder if this will affect the hydrogen-powered vehicle development. Give enough sunlight and water, you can produce hydrogen without environmental impact and burn it in an ICE with no emission beyond water vapor. It all boils down to how we support the infrastructure to distribute electric and hydrogen
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      09-24-2020, 07:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230iZTR View Post
This is a ban on new combustion engine cars that won't go into effect until 2035. With how much progress electric cars have made in the last 15 years, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see similar (or even exponentially more) improvement in the next 15 years. Its entirely possible that gasoline cars won't be relevant anyway.
Thank you, it took someone 2 pages to say this. I'm all about fun ICE cars, especially with MT, but I completely agree with you. In 15 years, not only are electric cars going to be far better/more affordable because that's a lifetime for its development. In 15 years, I probably will have no interest left in new ICE cars. I think 6 cylinders will be about the biggest cylinder count you can get within a decade and I personally have no interest in a high strung 4 pot turbo engine.

As long as you can still buy used cars AND drive them, I have no problems with that at all. I think by that time, most of us that are able to have multiple cars will probably have an electric daily anyway.
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      09-24-2020, 07:28 AM   #33
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And what is everyone going to plug these cars into? An electric grid that can't handle the demands already being placed on it?
15 years away, new car sales only, the average age of cars on the road is currently at 12 years. The change is happening now and gradually and 15 from now a huge part of the cars on the road will still be ICE.

Roughly 270 million registered cars in the U.S. and about 17 million produced each year. Not difficult to see that even if all vehicles produced today were electric it would take a really long time to get even 50% of the population electric. Don't forget the proposal goes into effect in 15 years.
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      09-24-2020, 09:22 AM   #34
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Isn’t there talk of the next m5 being a 1000hp all electric car?
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      09-24-2020, 11:26 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by eluded View Post
About time. It's easily doable if you have The means. I love how at the press conference our almighty supreme leader had a $100,000 Tesla parked next to a $60000 Tesla parked next to a $60,000 Mustang parked next to an $80,000 Audi all situated behind him. Yeah this is easily affordable for the average California. :
There are less expensive BEVs around and by the time this law takes effect, there will be many. See the Bolt, the Niro, etc.
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      09-24-2020, 12:17 PM   #36
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This is only for new-car sales. Doesn't keep you from buying or owning a used ICE vehicle.

California has been the leader in emission regulation and fuel economy legislation. It was gradually being adopted by many other states including most of the population centers in the NE USA. The regulations drove the manufacturers to build cleaner cars when many insisted it couldn't be done, or that performance would suffer. So now we sell BMWs with over 600-hp that meet those standards. How was that bad? If not for the regulations our climate would be far worse, but now we're backsliding as the current administration in DC seeks to rollback any and all legislation done under Obama, without regard for how it hurst the citizens of the country unless they happen to be business owners. That's short-sighted and harmful to our world and the impact is felt far beyond our borders.

I'll keep the ICE stick-shift cars I have. I'll likely be dead by the time these regulations would have any affect on me. But my grandchildren (should I have any) will be the beneficiaries of this forward thinking.

Now lets figure out how to make ALL electric power from the sun and the wind.

I do wonder if this will affect the hydrogen-powered vehicle development. Give enough sunlight and water, you can produce hydrogen without environmental impact and burn it in an ICE with no emission beyond water vapor. It all boils down to how we support the infrastructure to distribute electric and hydrogen
Basically you're on board with this because it suits your political philosophy. Nevermind the fact that one guy is strong arming the entire state's population and multibillion dollar companies due to his own desires. The problem with people today on both sides is that they blindly support whatever their party wants without thinking.

And we all know what a pain in the behind old BMWs are to maintain and how unrealistic it is to drive these cars daily. Just because we will get to keep buying these old money pits doesn't mean it's OK. Some of us enjoy an exhaust note, shifting through our own gears, and a sub-4000 lb car for daily use.
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      09-24-2020, 12:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Njbmw17 View Post
Isn’t there talk of the next m5 being a 1000hp all electric car?
There's absolutely going to be an electric G60 i5 model with gobs of horsepower and some type of M branding. Will it be called an M5 rather than "i5 M" or something similar? That's not known yet.

Either way, there will still be a gasoline burning M5, and it will nearly certainly be powered by a hybridized V8 engine called S68 with 750hp or more.
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      09-24-2020, 01:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BMWCCA1 View Post
This is only for new-car sales. Doesn't keep you from buying or owning a used ICE vehicle.

California has been the leader in emission regulation and fuel economy legislation. It was gradually being adopted by many other states including most of the population centers in the NE USA. The regulations drove the manufacturers to build cleaner cars when many insisted it couldn't be done, or that performance would suffer. So now we sell BMWs with over 600-hp that meet those standards. How was that bad? If not for the regulations our climate would be far worse, but now we're backsliding as the current administration in DC seeks to rollback any and all legislation done under Obama, without regard for how it hurst the citizens of the country unless they happen to be business owners. That's short-sighted and harmful to our world and the impact is felt far beyond our borders.

I'll keep the ICE stick-shift cars I have. I'll likely be dead by the time these regulations would have any affect on me. But my grandchildren (should I have any) will be the beneficiaries of this forward thinking.

Now lets figure out how to make ALL electric power from the sun and the wind.

I do wonder if this will affect the hydrogen-powered vehicle development. Give enough sunlight and water, you can produce hydrogen without environmental impact and burn it in an ICE with no emission beyond water vapor. It all boils down to how we support the infrastructure to distribute electric and hydrogen
The Mods killed the Politics subforum, so I'll not get too political. You can actually research how well the Obama administration actually did on environmental issues. Even people on the Progressive side of the aisle were not impressed.

But your low impact, sustainable energy future for your prospective grandchildren has a realistic price to achieve it that most will not be able to afford. That price is not in just dollars, but in lifestyle and economic growth. Your grandchildren may not like it when they get there. If you are serious about it, stop driving and promoting 600 HP BMWs that the vast majority of people can't afford and wait until WE get there.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 09-24-2020 at 04:03 PM..
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      09-24-2020, 01:57 PM   #39
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The Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandate, one of the most daring environmental policies related to transportation, was implemented in September, 1990, by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). It originally required that, starting in 1998, 2% of the in-state new light duty vehicle sales of major automakers had no emissions of criteria pollutants. The required ZEV percentage would be increased to 5% in 2001 and to 10% in 2003.

Was supposed to be at 10% in 2003 but instead in 2018 was at 5.3%. They set lofty goals, people get really upset many years before they happen, then if not practical when the date gets here CARB revises them. Nothing to lose sleep over.
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      09-24-2020, 02:16 PM   #40
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      09-24-2020, 02:20 PM   #41
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CaLiFOrNiA sSucKs wHy wOulD anYoNe lIVE tHERE

anyways..
was sad news when I heard it was announced but like others said we will see how it executes. I wasn't surprised to be honest, seeing how many countries across the world especially europe are going to EV and removing ICE.

Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain, France, U.K., Scotland are all going to zero emission / away from ICE.

It's just a matter of time. I don't like it but this is the trend.. Fossil fuels will eventually become obsolete especially in big cities / countries.

TLDR Buy your 6mt, gas guzzlers, NOW
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      09-24-2020, 03:57 PM   #42
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CaLiFOrNiA sSucKs wHy wOulD anYoNe lIVE tHERE

anyways..
was sad news when I heard it was announced but like others said we will see how it executes. I wasn't surprised to be honest, seeing how many countries across the world especially europe are going to EV and removing ICE.

Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain, France, U.K., Scotland are all going to zero emission / away from ICE.

It's just a matter of time. I don't like it but this is the trend.. Fossil fuels will eventually become obsolete especially in big cities / countries.

TLDR Buy your 6mt, gas guzzlers, NOW
Eh, I've been hearing "fossil" fuels are going obsolete since I've been in grade school in the early 1970's. By the late 1970's when I started driving, gas was an inflation-adjusted $2.72 for regular. I just filled up this morning with 93 Shell for $2.95/gal. And there are 3 billion more people on the planet (nearly double), and 100M more people in the US.
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      09-24-2020, 04:06 PM   #43
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My biggest gripe since moving to this state has been the politics. This is simply disheartening and a pure political stunt as a response to the wildfires.
My entire family is from SoCal, born and raised. All my family/friends/co-workers are done with Cali poilitics. No one I know says one good thing about Newsom. Lost count of friends moving out of state.
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      09-24-2020, 05:09 PM   #44
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Eh, I've been hearing "fossil" fuels are going obsolete since I've been in grade school in the early 1970's. By the late 1970's when I started driving, gas was an inflation-adjusted $2.72 for regular. I just filled up this morning with 93 Shell for $2.95/gal. And there are 3 billion more people on the planet (nearly double), and 100M more people in the US.
So have I, the only difference is now there are actual EV vehicles that are capable. 10-20 years ago mass production EV vehicles were a pipe dream, not so much today. In another 10-20 years you can bet EV vehicle production will ramp up heavily with the advancements of battery production / life. You can try your best to believe it won't happen (I hope it doesn't either), but it's going to happen. It may lag longer than the expected dates described above, but this isn't a USA only thing it will be global. Comparing the hearsay of going EV in the 1970's to now is also a bit of a .. stretch.....

P.S. I have never owned a single EV vehicle or hybrid, so I am not a proponent of getting rid of ICE but I do believe that ICE are going to severely decrease in the next 10-25 years and ultimately phase out of new ICE cars in many countries or big cities.

Last edited by JamesGames; 09-24-2020 at 05:15 PM..
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