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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      11-10-2008, 11:59 AM   #2707
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Hi
I have e93 2007 pre 29.2 335i but upgraded with last firmware... so now turbo lag

Here in europe as well no way to have an hardware solution and back to old firmware.

But i did a little modification to reduce the turbo lag:

Simply bypass the left (the most close to rear of car) boost control solenoid by simply disconnecting the small pipes and connecting them together.
This mod is reversible and invisible. It will close partially the wasgates at idle...
No failure codes, running this since 2 weeks now.

Try and let me know....
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      11-11-2008, 02:04 AM   #2708
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      11-12-2008, 08:56 PM   #2709
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I agree... I'm done with BMW. My '08 335i was my first and will be my last.

Looking hard at Audi right now.

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      11-13-2008, 09:17 AM   #2710
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I wish I could unload my 335i as I checked out the S5 over the weekend and really like the car.
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      11-13-2008, 02:40 PM   #2711
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And here comes the 3 series performance model ... how about we get our old pre-virus 29.2 performance BACK !

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-perf...ase-video.html
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      11-13-2008, 04:40 PM   #2712
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Just got 31.1.1. Replaced 27.2.
Now torque power comes on about 2500-3000 rpm. No more raw pull from 1500 rpm.
That's frustrating.
I'm trying to be patient, and also to think of a way they will fix this.
I will contact BMW next week to explain the changes in my car and see what they say.
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      11-13-2008, 04:47 PM   #2713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescoupe View Post
Just got 31.1.1. Replaced 27.2.
Now torque power comes on about 2500-3000 rpm. No more raw pull from 1500 rpm.
That's frustrating.
I'm trying to be patient, and also to think of a way they will fix this.
I will contact BMW next week to explain the changes in my car and see what they say.
Were you aware of this issue and thread topic before you brought your car in for service? I am just wondering why you upgraded?
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      11-13-2008, 05:37 PM   #2714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobu View Post
And here comes the 3 series performance model ... how about we get our old pre-virus 29.2 performance BACK !

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-perf...ase-video.html
this car will only cost $63,000
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      11-13-2008, 06:07 PM   #2715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescoupe View Post
Just got 31.1.1. Replaced 27.2.
Now torque power comes on about 2500-3000 rpm. No more raw pull from 1500 rpm.
That's frustrating.
I'm trying to be patient, and also to think of a way they will fix this.
I will contact BMW next week to explain the changes in my car and see what they say.
It's odd how the Europe version of the software comes with a new DME update but the US version doesn't. My car has just been upgraded from v27.2 to 31.1.0 - there was no lag before I took it in, and no lag now thank goodness. Didn't fix my transmission issue I was having, but it looks like I dodged a bullet...
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      11-13-2008, 06:48 PM   #2716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbodle View Post
My car has just been upgraded from v27.2 to 31.1.0 - there was no lag before I took it in, and no lag now thank goodness.
I really wonder how you managed to go from v27.2 to v31.1. Here you say on 08-13-2008 that you just traded in your 325i for a new 335i. If it was new, it should have had Progman with at least v29.2 right from the start.

And if that is the case, you can imagine the question that follows next: "Have you ever driven a pre-v29.2 car to be so sure you don't have the Lag (tm) or are you just happy to be better off than with the previous 325i?"

No offense intended, just asking. Nice ride, BTW.
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      11-13-2008, 07:02 PM   #2717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
I really wonder how you managed to go from v27.2 to v31.1. Here you say on 08-13-2008 that you just traded in your 325i for a new 335i. If it was new, it should have had Progman with at least v29.2 right from the start.

And if that is the case, you can imagine the question that follows next: "Have you ever driven a pre-v29.2 car to be so sure you don't have the Lag (tm) or are you just happy to be better off than with the previous 325i?"

No offense intended, just asking. Nice ride, BTW.
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      11-13-2008, 07:11 PM   #2718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
Were you aware of this issue and thread topic before you brought your car in for service? I am just wondering why you upgraded?
I didn't "upgrade".
Had no choice. Note my earlier post.
Due to a taillight lens leak, I had an amplifier/TCU unit replaced, so whole car had to be reprogrammed. Just luck I guess. Not my idea.
I thought I might escape this.
Now the car is slower to respond. I almost got runover twice based on past performance expectations.
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      11-13-2008, 07:30 PM   #2719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescoupe View Post
I didn't "upgrade".
Had no choice. Note my earlier post.
Due to a taillight lens leak, I had an amplifier/TCU unit replaced, so whole car had to be reprogrammed. Just luck I guess. Not my idea.
I thought I might escape this.
Now the car is slower to respond. I almost got runover twice based on past performance expectations.
Sorry to hear that as most of us know how you feel. I am just trying to gather as much info as I can on 31.1.1 as my SM wants me to come in to get updated and I thought from some of the posts that I have read there "might" be a chance that the lag was addressed. I should have know better.
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      11-13-2008, 08:22 PM   #2720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
Sorry to hear that as most of us know how you feel. I am just trying to gather as much info as I can on 31.1.1 as my SM wants me to come in to get updated and I thought from some of the posts that I have read there "might" be a chance that the lag was addressed. I should have know better.
I can try to make you feel a little better.
Based on what I've read here, the lag is not so stilted, or pronounced. It is more gradual than suggested in previous versions (that I have not experienced).
But let me be clear. It is a very definite change. It removes about 1K rpm power band, from the bottom, from your car.
guess I didn't make you feel too much better after all...
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      11-14-2008, 05:57 AM   #2721
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German car magazine Autobild investigated...

Today, there was an article in the german car mag "Autobild". Sorry, no link.

BMW has admitted that they changed v29.2 in order to reduce wastegate rattle. O.K., this was a know fact. They state that the induced delay (aka "Lag (tm)") is ~150ms, which "For sure, no customer will notice.". Boy, were they wrong.

Furthermore, they say that cars from MY08 (Build dates from 09/07 on) have different turbos and wastegates which will not develop have those problems.

MSD81 cars (from build dates 03/08 on) do have a different software than MDS80 ones which does not require those changes (because they always have new turbos) and thus have no delay. Autobild has measured and verified that for an MSD81 car, although (this is info from the reporter himself and not in the article) maximum torque came only from 1700 RPM and he said he had expected more initial thrust. Everything else (i.e. power, elasticity and acceleration figures) was just as it was with the car they measured back in 2006.

BMW plans to bring out a downgrade software for MSD80 cars which fixes the Lag but can cause wastegate rattling again for cars with old turbos (i.e. before 09/07). I don't know if these will be replaced if this happens - maybe they hope the problem develops after end of warranty.

I am lucky enough to have a MY08 09/07 build date and will downgrade as soon as possible after release of the software.

Last edited by meyergru; 11-14-2008 at 06:49 AM..
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      11-14-2008, 08:06 AM   #2722
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well i have 29.1.1 not going to update it, like some of u in here
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      11-14-2008, 08:24 AM   #2723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Today, there was an article in the german car mag "Autobild". Sorry, no link.

BMW has admitted that they changed v29.2 in order to reduce wastegate rattle. O.K., this was a know fact. They state that the induced delay (aka "Lag (tm)") is ~150ms, which "For sure, no customer will notice.". Boy, were they wrong.

Furthermore, they say that cars from MY08 (Build dates from 09/07 on) have different turbos and wastegates which will not develop have those problems.

MSD81 cars (from build dates 03/08 on) do have a different software than MDS80 ones which does not require those changes (because they always have new turbos) and thus have no delay. Autobild has measured and verified that for an MSD81 car, although (this is info from the reporter himself and not in the article) maximum torque came only from 1700 RPM and he said he had expected more initial thrust. Everything else (i.e. power, elasticity and acceleration figures) was just as it was with the car they measured back in 2006.

BMW plans to bring out a downgrade software for MSD80 cars which fixes the Lag but can cause wastegate rattling again for cars with old turbos (i.e. before 09/07). I don't know if these will be replaced if this happens - maybe they hope the problem develops after end of warranty.

I am lucky enough to have a MY08 09/07 build date and will downgrade as soon as possible after release of the software.
Great stuff. If you can somehow find a link to this as I would LOVE to forward this to my team of "experts" looking out for me at BMW.
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      11-14-2008, 09:08 AM   #2724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Today, there was an article in the german car mag "Autobild". Sorry, no link.

BMW has admitted that they changed v29.2 in order to reduce wastegate rattle. O.K., this was a know fact. They state that the induced delay (aka "Lag (tm)") is ~150ms, which "For sure, no customer will notice.". Boy, were they wrong.

Furthermore, they say that cars from MY08 (Build dates from 09/07 on) have different turbos and wastegates which will not develop have those problems.

MSD81 cars (from build dates 03/08 on) do have a different software than MDS80 ones which does not require those changes (because they always have new turbos) and thus have no delay. Autobild has measured and verified that for an MSD81 car, although (this is info from the reporter himself and not in the article) maximum torque came only from 1700 RPM and he said he had expected more initial thrust. Everything else (i.e. power, elasticity and acceleration figures) was just as it was with the car they measured back in 2006.

BMW plans to bring out a downgrade software for MSD80 cars which fixes the Lag but can cause wastegate rattling again for cars with old turbos (i.e. before 09/07). I don't know if these will be replaced if this happens - maybe they hope the problem develops after end of warranty.

I am lucky enough to have a MY08 09/07 build date and will downgrade as soon as possible after release of the software.
So MY08 cars don't need the wastegate management changes of 29.2, so will they reverse these changes?.....

I guess I know the answer.....
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      11-14-2008, 09:41 AM   #2725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
So MY08 cars don't need the wastegate management changes of 29.2, so will they reverse these changes?.....

I guess I know the answer.....
According to BMW, the answer is "yes", this is what Autobild wrote:

"Und die Problemautos vor Baujahr September 2007? Hier will BMW die Besitzer offenbar mit einer billigen Softwarelösung abspeisen, anstatt gleich die teuren Turbos zu tauschen. Dafür spricht, dass in Kürze - wie bei Microsofts Pannen-Betriebsystem Windows Vista - ein Downgrade der Steuersoftware auf die alte Version möglich sein soll."

Translated:

"And the problem cars built before September 2007? BMW obviously wants to put off their owners with a cheap software solution, instead of exchanging the expensive turbos. Which seems even more probable given that shortly - as with Microsoft's breakdown operating system Windows Vista - a downgrade of the control software to the former version will be made possible."

Also, this is the same info as I was given by BMW, namely that in late december or early next year a downgrade will be possible as a field solution.

I cannot tell you whether this will be a downgrade to the delivery version for the car or a completely new version that has pre-v29.2 wastegate behaviour again. However, it will only be available for MSD80 cars as BMW sees no need for newer MSD81 cars.
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      11-14-2008, 09:46 AM   #2726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Today, there was an article in the german car mag "Autobild". Sorry, no link.

BMW has admitted that they changed v29.2 in order to reduce wastegate rattle. O.K., this was a know fact. They state that the induced delay (aka "Lag (tm)") is ~150ms, which "For sure, no customer will notice.". Boy, were they wrong.

Furthermore, they say that cars from MY08 (Build dates from 09/07 on) have different turbos and wastegates which will not develop have those problems.

MSD81 cars (from build dates 03/08 on) do have a different software than MDS80 ones which does not require those changes (because they always have new turbos) and thus have no delay. Autobild has measured and verified that for an MSD81 car, although (this is info from the reporter himself and not in the article) maximum torque came only from 1700 RPM and he said he had expected more initial thrust. Everything else (i.e. power, elasticity and acceleration figures) was just as it was with the car they measured back in 2006.

BMW plans to bring out a downgrade software for MSD80 cars which fixes the Lag but can cause wastegate rattling again for cars with old turbos (i.e. before 09/07). I don't know if these will be replaced if this happens - maybe they hope the problem develops after end of warranty.

I am lucky enough to have a MY08 09/07 build date and will downgrade as soon as possible after release of the software.

Wow, thank you meyerguru!
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      11-14-2008, 10:12 AM   #2727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Today, there was an article in the german car mag "Autobild". Sorry, no link.

BMW has admitted that they changed v29.2 in order to reduce wastegate rattle. O.K., this was a know fact. They state that the induced delay (aka "Lag (tm)") is ~150ms, which "For sure, no customer will notice.". Boy, were they wrong.

Furthermore, they say that cars from MY08 (Build dates from 09/07 on) have different turbos and wastegates which will not develop have those problems.

MSD81 cars (from build dates 03/08 on) do have a different software than MDS80 ones which does not require those changes (because they always have new turbos) and thus have no delay. Autobild has measured and verified that for an MSD81 car, although (this is info from the reporter himself and not in the article) maximum torque came only from 1700 RPM and he said he had expected more initial thrust. Everything else (i.e. power, elasticity and acceleration figures) was just as it was with the car they measured back in 2006.

BMW plans to bring out a downgrade software for MSD80 cars which fixes the Lag but can cause wastegate rattling again for cars with old turbos (i.e. before 09/07). I don't know if these will be replaced if this happens - maybe they hope the problem develops after end of warranty.

I am lucky enough to have a MY08 09/07 build date and will downgrade as soon as possible after release of the software.
No customer will notice?

What morons.....
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      11-14-2008, 10:21 AM   #2728
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MSD81 versions are 03/08 and later correct? Anything before that is MSD80 like my 12/07 build date? I am just asking because in the article it states anything on or before 09/07 is MSD80?
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