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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      10-29-2008, 07:51 AM   #2575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imoksoami View Post
Anything else you want to correct?
+1. P)wned

The car ABSOLUTELY used to make peak torque at 1400. It was a beast. That was my point the other day...so many people on here saying it isn't that bad, or that 31.x is pretty good...well, maybe if you knew what the pull USED to feel like, you'd be singing a different song.
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      10-29-2008, 08:38 AM   #2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezatnova View Post
+1. P)wned

The car ABSOLUTELY used to make peak torque at 1400. It was a beast. That was my point the other day...so many people on here saying it isn't that bad, or that 31.x is pretty good...well, maybe if you knew what the pull USED to feel like, you'd be singing a different song.
I totally agree. I am on 31.1 (I think) and my car makes no power until about 3.2k. I think that some of the folks who have not driven a pre-29.2 car don't have a very good reference point. Post-29.2 sucks in comparison. My car used to be a BEAST from 1.5k. Now it's a 328i until 3.5k.

Nova, do you know has anyone reported on the lag issue for the 2009s yet? I'm trying to get a test drive lined up now.
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      10-29-2008, 09:24 AM   #2577
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While I do appreciate the responses posted by everyone I encourage those who were not pre v29.2 to refrain from commenting on comparison testing to avoid this thread from going in the wrong direction. I keep reading more and more posts from users that have recently upgraded to v31.1 and claim the lag is fixed and they have more power down low even though they never drove a pre v29.2

I do believe this is a step in the right direction but it is misleading. May I suggest a new topic started for those of you that bought the car with post v29.2 and upgraded. For those of you that bought the car with v29.2 or greater and use that as a reference point you are comparing apples to oranges. Trust all of us when we say that pre 29.2 felt like having a 1k tune performed before 3k rpm's.
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      10-29-2008, 09:42 AM   #2578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
While I do appreciate the responses posted by everyone I encourage those who were not pre v29.2 to refrain from commenting on comparison testing to avoid this thread from going in the wrong direction. I keep reading more and more posts from users that have recently upgraded to v31.1 and claim the lag is fixed and they have more power down low even though they never drove a pre v29.2

I do believe this is a step in the right direction but it is misleading. May I suggest a new topic started for those of you that bought the car with post v29.2 and upgraded. For those of you that bought the car with v29.2 or greater and use that as a reference point you are comparing apples to oranges. Trust all of us when we say that pre 29.2 felt like having a 1k tune performed before 3k rpm's.
+1.

On the topic of me driving a 2009...I have not. However, I am going to my dealer today and will ask if they have one there that I can take out.
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      10-29-2008, 09:44 AM   #2579
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I am having trouble finding the exact post, but isn't there a theory that with a new progman they changed the wastegate duty cycle to open when you release the clutch now, instead of waiting for the gas pedal to be pressed? And if so, was that with 31.1? I am just curious, even if it is only a partial fix it would be nice to get 1/2 of my delay removed
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      10-29-2008, 09:54 AM   #2580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
While I do appreciate the responses posted by everyone I encourage those who were not pre v29.2 to refrain from commenting on comparison testing to avoid this thread from going in the wrong direction. I keep reading more and more posts from users that have recently upgraded to v31.1 and claim the lag is fixed and they have more power down low even though they never drove a pre v29.2

I do believe this is a step in the right direction but it is misleading. May I suggest a new topic started for those of you that bought the car with post v29.2 and upgraded. For those of you that bought the car with v29.2 or greater and use that as a reference point you are comparing apples to oranges. Trust all of us when we say that pre 29.2 felt like having a 1k tune performed before 3k rpm's.
I have driven a pre-29.2 and know how that feels. I have driven a v30 and it has severe lag. I now have v31.1 and it was in-between v27 and v30. After I fixed my vacuum lines, the car now has still a little lag.

I think that this is the state that many new car owners experience. Not really bad from their point of view (aka: "I don't have lag."), but still worse than pre v29.2. Turbo thrust begins at ~2000 RPM with that version. Intersting to me is the fact that despite BMW stating 400 Nm at 1400 RPM, even pre-v29.2 dyno charts from 2007 show an increase of torque only at ~2000 RPM.

However, anyone who has v31.1 and still experiencing bad lag up to ~3000 RPM (I mean you, Tyler, for example) should have their hardware fixed, because the only other way to get the old behaviour would be old software. I doubt that BMW will undo the change with the wastegates being more open at low RPM completely. So, fast wastegate response will be essential even with the announced new software version.

E92Fans hints about bad machinery and mine about vacuum hoses may not be the only possibilities as to what else can be wrong with such cars.
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      10-29-2008, 10:27 AM   #2581
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I drove a 2009 yesterday. Don't know what version of progman was on this one, but it was laggy to 3k - not a beast down low.

-B
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      10-29-2008, 10:44 AM   #2582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
I have driven a pre-29.2 and know how that feels. I have driven a v30 and it has severe lag. I now have v31.1 and it was in-between v27 and v30. After I fixed my vacuum lines, the car now has still a little lag.

I think that this is the state that many new car owners experience. Not really bad from their point of view (aka: "I don't have lag."), but still worse than pre v29.2. Turbo thrust begins at ~2000 RPM with that version.

Intersting to me is the fact that despite BMW stating 400 Nm at 1400 RPM, even pre-v29.2 dyno charts from 2007 show an increase of torque only at ~2000 RPM.

.

There is no one having a 2007 335i that know how a 2009(European) 335i perform. We dont remember how a pre 29.2 feels. That doesnt mean our 09 cars is having less performance at low rpm. And I am sure of european progman versions differ on essential ways from the US versions. You have your special emissioncodes. Have you looked at the dynograph I posted. Even Meyergru posted
that pre 29.2 v. show an increase in torque only at~2000 rpm.


Best wishes
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      10-29-2008, 10:52 AM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
There is no one having a 2007 335i that know how a 2009(European) 335i perform. We dont remember how a pre 29.2 feels. That doesnt mean our 09 cars is having less performance at low rpm. And I am sure of european progman versions differ on essential ways from the US versions. You have your special emissioncodes. Have you looked at the dynograph I posted. Even Meyergru posted
that pre 29.2 v. show an increase in torque only at~2000 rpm.


Best wishes
The problem is that you can't sure how the dyno was run, did they go WOT at say 1,200 rpm or wait till nearer 2,000? 2,000 or higher would probably be more of a typical dyno run.
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      10-29-2008, 11:16 AM   #2584
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The dyno is not the real problem but I can call the editor at the carmag and ask them if they can assist.
I dynoed my Ducati 996 SPS once and I went WOT all the time.
Isnt that the way to do it?
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      10-29-2008, 11:17 AM   #2585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
There is no one having a 2007 335i that know how a 2009(European) 335i perform. We dont remember how a pre 29.2 feels. That doesnt mean our 09 cars is having less performance at low rpm. And I am sure of european progman versions differ on essential ways from the US versions. You have your special emissioncodes. Have you looked at the dynograph I posted. Even Meyergru posted
that pre 29.2 v. show an increase in torque only at~2000 rpm.


Best wishes
IMHO, if you are getting big boost at 2000rpm, I think most of us would agree that is significantly better than the post-29.2 cars that most of us have.

I have no reason to doubt anyone's posts here...especially meyergru's. But, FWIW, My car is post-29.2 and it DOES NOT feel like it makes a lot of boost at 2k. I have not dyno'd it but it sucks under 3k.

I'm hoping to test drive a 2009 335i hopefully today or tomorrow. I think it will be obvious to me if the Lag is fixed or not.
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      10-29-2008, 11:25 AM   #2586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
I just wanna say that so y dont think I wanna degrade
our super 335i as I post a test taken 2006 in september
by a high reputable carmagazine here in Scandinavia.
Rototest performed the dynotest.
Excuse me for the bad quality but I had no scanner, just a camera. Its fantastic how bloody good this car performs when one take these data in perspective.

No offense intended but your graph from a reputable magazine wasn't what convinced me to buy my car. The graph from BMW which I posted was what convinced many of us. The graph by BMW is what we should be using in this thread.
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      10-29-2008, 11:36 AM   #2587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9595 View Post
IMHO, if you are getting big boost at 2000rpm, I think most of us would agree that is significantly better than the post-29.2 cars that most of us have.

I have no reason to doubt anyone's posts here...especially meyergru's. But, FWIW, My car is post-29.2 and it DOES NOT feel like it makes a lot of boost at 2k. I have not dyno'd it but it sucks under 3k.

I'm hoping to test drive a 2009 335i hopefully today or tomorrow. I think it will be obvious to me if the Lag is fixed or not.
It's really hard to know how our cars compare with each others'. My July 08 build with 30.0.2 has good boost from below 2,000 rpm, maybe it's not 100%, more like 80% but after hitting 3,000 it's not like a switch is thrown making the boost much better. Having said that it's not as though my car is a beast (I think I used this term first way back!) at low revs. So, whilst I'm reasonably happy with my car I have a nagging doubt about it and if it can be turned into a beast at low revs I'm all for it.
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      10-29-2008, 11:41 AM   #2588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imoksoami View Post
No offense intended but your graph from a reputable magazine wasn't what convinced me to buy my car. The graph from BMW which I posted was what convinced many of us. The graph by BMW is what we should be using in this thread.

Y didnt trust BMW before. Why do y do it now when you all dont put any trust in BMW:s replays.
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      10-29-2008, 12:02 PM   #2589
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Nothing major, but just got back from dropping off my car. I thought it was pretty funny that when I asked if my SA has heard any updates about the lag and the progman, he said he and the SM were just talking about it and catching up on it this morning...I guarantee it's because I had an appointment and they saw I was coming in, and they knew I'd be a PITA about it again.
Anyway, he said he hasn't heard anything definitive but that he'd ask around while my car was there and see if it's worth updating it to the most current version they have. I'm sure they won't, and I even said "I am not TELLING you that this is a fix. I'm saying, if you want to try it, then go ahead and do it and keep the car overnight. If I KNEW this were a fix, you'd better believe I'd be pounding on this desk demanding it be put on my car."
I also asked if I could drive a 6 speed '09, and he said they just started getting them in and would have to check if they had one, but if they do, it shouldn't be a problem to drive it when I go to get my car. From what others are saying though, the '09's are no miracle fix...which is what I think most of us expected. I'm more going to be looking for any IMPROVEMENT over my 29.2, to see if they are at least going in the right direction.
One last interesting note. The guy who helps get the loaners and paperwork together, etc, overheard me say something about "the '09's" and asked if I was looking at a new one. I said no, that I was just interested in seeing how they were with the lag. His reaction was like he knew EXACTLY what the lag problem was, and why I was angry.
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      10-29-2008, 12:54 PM   #2590
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Testing a Swedish '09

Tonight I tested a 2009 335iA.
I went to great lenghts to do this testdrive as he was not located anywhere near me.

First impressions:
Feels stronger and more responsive then mine. It reacts to throttle input better and I felt more of a pull from the low revs.

Now, regarding the throttle response.
No - it is nowhere near the 2007/2006 agressive response in the low revs, but it is better then 29.2+.

I didn't feel the no-lag, hard pull I do with a '07 built. I keept feeling like it went with 85% of it's potential, the missing 15% would'nt bother me if I never drove a pre 29.2 car. But I have, so It does.

I understand why my Swedish countryman is so excited, because it is better, heck Its a fantastic car compared to most things out there but for those who have driven the "old" 335i it will feel ok, but not -Halleluja, Its back!

It's like meyergru says - somewhere in the middle..


no offense to anyone who has a '09, Just want to say that if you love your new car now, just imagine how it was 10 months ago.
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      10-29-2008, 01:13 PM   #2591
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I just got back from test driving an 2009 E93 with my friend, he wants a vert, go figure. Anyway I have a 2008 335, 11/07 build. I drove the car as well, and I can say that without a doubt that my car gets up and goes at the lower RPM's far and away better than the 09 E93 and seems much, much faster from a start. The difference is not trivial in any way.

Yes, this is totally subjective and based on 'feel,' and the car was a vert, but both of us agree that my car seems to have more power and/or torque at the low end. They didn't have an E90/92 there so I couldn't really do an apples to apples comparison.

If anything, this has convinced me to never have the software updated, save for some catastrophic failure requiring it. I will never bring my car back to the dealership, if I get some crappy update and my car feels like the '09, I will be sorely disappointed. I can't imagine what you guys are going through that did get your cars updated, as I am sure it's much worse than the new '09's.

This bait and switch just pissed me off to no end. Best of luck to you all.
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      10-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #2592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
Tonight I tested a 2009 335iA.
I went to great lenghts to do this testdrive as he was not located anywhere near me.

First impressions:
Feels stronger and more responsive then mine. It reacts to throttle input better and I felt more of a pull from the low revs.

Now, regarding the throttle response.
No - it is nowhere near the 2007/2006 agressive response in the low revs, but it is better then 29.2+.

I didn't feel the no-lag, hard pull I do with a '07 built. I keept feeling like it went with 85% of it's potential, the missing 15% would'nt bother me if I never drove a pre 29.2 car. But I have, so It does.

I understand why my Swedish countryman is so excited, because it is better, heck Its a fantastic car compared to most things out there but for those who have driven the "old" 335i it will feel ok, but not -Halleluja, Its back!

It's like meyergru says - somewhere in the middle..


no offense to anyone who has a '09, Just want to say that if you love your new car now, just imagine how it was 10 months ago.
Thx Pavel!

Can you come down and testdrive my car aswell?
There is difference between every single car.

Anyway we always can get Dinan or similar after two years.


Take care!
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      10-29-2008, 01:25 PM   #2593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
Tonight I tested a 2009 335iA.
First impressions:
Feels stronger and more responsive then mine. It reacts to throttle input better and I felt more of a pull from the low revs.

Now, regarding the throttle response.
No - it is nowhere near the 2007/2006 agressive response in the low revs, but it is better then 29.2+.
What software do you have, Pavel? If you had non defective hardware and also v31.1, your car should behave like the 09? Not to say that it would be back to normal, but at least 85% is better than nothing for the time being.
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      10-29-2008, 01:31 PM   #2594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
What software do you have, Pavel? If you had non defective hardware and also v31.1, your car should behave like the 09? Not to say that it would be back to normal, but at least 85% is better than nothing for the time being.
I have what everybody said was impossible; a DME update with V31.0

Below is extracted from my final report confirmed by myself and a printout from the technicians computer.

SW:
E89X-08-09-515

DME part number:
7592276
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      10-29-2008, 02:00 PM   #2595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
I have what everybody said was impossible; a DME update with V31.0

Below is extracted from my final report confirmed by myself and a printout from the technicians computer.

SW:
E89X-08-09-515

DME part number:
7592276
Excuse my ignorance. What does DME stand for?
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      10-29-2008, 02:03 PM   #2596
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