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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      10-29-2008, 02:09 PM   #2597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
Excuse my ignorance. What does DME stand for?
DME is your engine computer (some would say ECU).
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      10-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #2598
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What BMWagain refers to with his picture is from Auto, Motor & Sport mag. This is europe´s by far most knowledge car-mag with its base in... Germany. I´ve also got that particular number and dam, rototest figures are the most accurate out there. I´ve didn´t think of it before, just read the paper from BMW where it says 400nm/1300rpm. Hmm this test was done in september 2006 on a fresh-from-the-factory-car and they absolutely loved it!
More info about rototest can be read here http://www.rototest.com/rototest-dynamometer.php
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      10-29-2008, 04:03 PM   #2599
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Here are the figures from rototest website http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=647
If you look at the graph it says 2006-09-19 and the numbers are only 4% less then BMW states. It also fillows the graph that came from BMW as people here are refering to.
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      10-29-2008, 04:44 PM   #2600
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Quote:
Excuse my ignorance. What does DME stand for?
Officially - "Digital Motor Electronics" (aka ECU)

-B
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      10-29-2008, 05:12 PM   #2601
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More FAIL from dealership

Well, just got my car back. On the paperwork it says:
"Tested and felt no lag. No update available for issue. Checked for faults. None found. Performs as designed."
ARGH!

Besides the "bend over and take it" of the above text on my work order, there were some other comments worth noting.
- My SM said that "very few others have complained." Mmmkay.
- He then said "hold on for a bit longer. I have heard there is something in the pipes for December." Hmm...now, that would be nice. Obviously he's not flat out stating fact, but, it was nice that he even went to far as to say that. He even said "hopefully see you back in a month...I'll call you if we get a fix."

That's all. Oh...they didn't have an '09 335 sticks yet for me to drive, but it sounds like we have enough testing already on here to say that they didn't find any magical cure-all for the '09s.
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      10-29-2008, 06:27 PM   #2602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezatnova View Post
Well, just got my car back. On the paperwork it says:
"Tested and felt no lag. No update available for issue. Checked for faults. None found. Performs as designed."
ARGH!

Besides the "bend over and take it" of the above text on my work order, there were some other comments worth noting.
- My SM said that "very few others have complained." Mmmkay.
- He then said "hold on for a bit longer. I have heard there is something in the pipes for December." Hmm...now, that would be nice. Obviously he's not flat out stating fact, but, it was nice that he even went to far as to say that. He even said "hopefully see you back in a month...I'll call you if we get a fix."

That's all. Oh...they didn't have an '09 335 sticks yet for me to drive, but it sounds like we have enough testing already on here to say that they didn't find any magical cure-all for the '09s.
You know what kills me about that Nova is when they state on your work order that everything is fine and within spec and then tell you to wait until Dec. Well, what are we waiting for? If everything is in spec why would there be a need to come out with an update in Dec?
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      10-29-2008, 07:04 PM   #2603
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FYI guys, I'm running a MSD V81 ECU in a 135i 08 model. installed with V31.1 update and the car is/has always been lag free. With the new V31.1 its even nicer... far smoother
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      10-29-2008, 07:53 PM   #2604
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Msd V81 Ecu

How can you know what version you have MSD V81 ECU?
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      10-29-2008, 08:32 PM   #2605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marell01 View Post
Here are the figures from rototest website http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=647
If you look at the graph it says 2006-09-19 and the numbers are only 4% less then BMW states. It also fillows the graph that came from BMW as people here are refering to.
wow, smoking gun there. Compare that to all the recent dynos posted by people who claim to have "no lag" and there is a clear difference.

Any chance we can compel this publication to re-test a 29.2 vehicle?
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      10-29-2008, 08:52 PM   #2606
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Well what about the V3 Lag fix? does that really work?
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      10-29-2008, 08:54 PM   #2607
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WTF? My dealer has told me that as soon as ther is a fix "you are the first to get it"??? A fix for what? A leaky windshield wiper resivour? REH-TAHDS
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      10-29-2008, 09:35 PM   #2608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
Y didnt trust BMW before. Why do y do it now when you all dont put any trust in BMW:s replays.
I am not sure what your point is? What people want is for their car to perform to BMW's advertised performance. That's what people paid for. I trusted BMW when I bought my car - my bad, it won't happen with this company again. I never thought of the scenario where they would detune my car to cover up a hardware problem.
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      10-30-2008, 03:41 AM   #2609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iScream View Post
wow, smoking gun there. Compare that to all the recent dynos posted by people who claim to have "no lag" and there is a clear difference.

Any chance we can compel this publication to re-test a 29.2 vehicle?

I could maybee contact Rototest and get the numbers of my car that has DME80 29.2+. It would be very interesting. I will call them and ask them for price, they are located only 30 miles from my home.
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      10-30-2008, 04:11 AM   #2610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias1980 View Post
I could maybee contact Rototest and get the numbers of my car that has DME80 29.2+. It would be very interesting. I will call them and ask them for price, they are located only 30 miles from my home.
I justed talked with the head of Rototest and what they offer is extremly accurate "solid state" dyno. They will be able to measure absolute torque at all RPM's but plaese note that this will not show the lag.

Rototest told me that they have been waiting for people to start discussions like this one as cars can change a lot in behaviour due to new software... The question is what is within specification.. he told me that these kind of issues has more pr impact then judicial for car manufacturers.

Rototest are normally not working with private persons as customers but are willing to test a car for 2000 SEK ($300). He also told me that the best thing would be if we hooked up with a car magazine in order to get some more weight on our test.

So what is you opinion about power and lag with the 29.2+ software, is it a lack of power below 3000 RPM or are we fooled by the lag? I think we miss a bit of torque together with the lag.
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      10-30-2008, 04:39 AM   #2611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias1980 View Post
I justed talked with the head of Rototest and what they offer is extremly accurate "solid state" dyno. They will be able to measure absolute torque at all RPM's but plaese note that this will not show the lag.

Rototest told me that they have been waiting for people to start discussions like this one as cars can change a lot in behaviour due to new software... The question is what is within specification.. he told me that these kind of issues has more pr impact then judicial for car manufacturers.

Rototest are normally not working with private persons as customers but are willing to test a car for 2000 SEK ($300). He also told me that the best thing would be if we hooked up with a car magazine in order to get some more weight on our test.

So what is you opinion about power and lag with the 29.2+ software, is it a lack of power below 3000 RPM or are we fooled by the lag? I think we miss a bit of torque together with the lag.
Power to you for making the contact! My feeling is that 2 tests are needed, one for a badly performing 29.2 car that is reported as gutless below 3k and another for a recent build with say 30.0.2 that performs more like mine, sort ok but not a beast a low revs. I would hope that a lot of people on this thread would chuck in $10 or $20 a piece to cover the costs.
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      10-30-2008, 07:52 AM   #2612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marell01 View Post
What BMWagain refers to with his picture is from Auto, Motor & Sport mag. This is europe´s by far most knowledge car-mag with its base in... Germany. I´ve also got that particular number and dam, rototest figures are the most accurate out there. I´ve didn´t think of it before, just read the paper from BMW where it says 400nm/1300rpm. Hmm this test was done in september 2006 on a fresh-from-the-factory-car and they absolutely loved it!
More info about rototest can be read here http://www.rototest.com/rototest-dynamometer.php
//Marcus
Just for the record.
My graph is from TeknikensVarld nr 20 @september 20 2006. And Rototest is immaculate.
And thanks Tobias!
BMW.s dyno is probably showing data measured from the crank.
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      10-30-2008, 07:54 AM   #2613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias1980 View Post
I justed talked with the head of Rototest and what they offer is extremly accurate "solid state" dyno. They will be able to measure absolute torque at all RPM's but plaese note that this will not show the lag.

Rototest told me that they have been waiting for people to start discussions like this one as cars can change a lot in behaviour due to new software... The question is what is within specification.. he told me that these kind of issues has more pr impact then judicial for car manufacturers.

Rototest are normally not working with private persons as customers but are willing to test a car for 2000 SEK ($300). He also told me that the best thing would be if we hooked up with a car magazine in order to get some more weight on our test.

So what is you opinion about power and lag with the 29.2+ software, is it a lack of power below 3000 RPM or are we fooled by the lag? I think we miss a bit of torque together with the lag.
I can contribute to the testcost.
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      10-30-2008, 08:06 AM   #2614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marell01 View Post
Here are the figures from rototest website http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=647
If you look at the graph it says 2006-09-19 and the numbers are only 4% less then BMW states. It also fillows the graph that came from BMW as people here are refering to.


These figures arent the same as in the magazine that states max torque 396 nm at 3400 rpm.
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      10-30-2008, 08:44 AM   #2615
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First off, I'm happy to chip in a few bucks for a test that someone conducts out of their own pocket, as I'd be thankful if the same thing happened in return if I do some testing in the near future.

Regarding the seemingly endless debate of whether the dyno will show the lag or not, well, the easy answer is to just get a pre 29.2 car and a 29.2 car and test them together, same day same dyno, which amazingly has yet to happen. This is where I could help, if need be. I have a friend on here with a pre 29.2 and I think he is willing to go test with me one day.
The other part is, if the lag won't show on the dyno, then will it show a loss of power, which in this case with the wastegates being the culprit will be directly attributable to boost.
It is a bit baffling that we have still yet to come up with (to my knowledge) boost curves or data points on pre and post 29.2 cars. I understand that probably not a TON of non tuned cars have boost gauges, although I'm sure plenty do. But all it would take is, for example, a JB3 owner on a pre 29.2 car with a boost gauge, to flip the map switch to stock and then take some readings and measurements. The same could then be done by an owner with a post 29.2 car and we could get some good, easy data. Again, I can help out with the later. I'm installing a gauge this weekend, mostly to try and attack this whole friggin issue from a new angle. Most decent gauges have a peak recall, so, my idea is to WOT the car from increasing rev ranges then back off. This way, I can get peak boost from, for example, 1400-1800 rpm, and repeat the exercise on up the rev range. I can use peak recall to see what the car was boosting in each instace, which will be easier than trying to floor it for a whole run while trying not to die on the road and watch the gauge at the same time. In the end, I can build my own boost curve with these data points.
Anyway, I am heavily expecting that anywhere below 2800 or so, the car is making well under 8 psi, which is about the max for stock. I would also bet that on a pre 29.2 car, 8 psi is achieved by 1400 rpm. My speculation is that there's no way the pre 29.2 car made max torque of 300 lb ft at 1400 rpm, which it did, if it wasn't fully boosted by then. Now, I bet we see maybe 2 lbs or so in the low revs. We shall see this weekend when I get the Rix vent gauge strapped in!
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      10-30-2008, 09:39 AM   #2616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
These figures arent the same as in the magazine that states max torque 396 nm at 3400 rpm.
It is the same!!! But, they mentioned 396 at 3400 but check the graph, it says also 392 at 1500... Only thing is the mag only shows max Nm in numbers and that happens to come at 3400rpm!

On rototest you are able to see all the tests they have performed.
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      10-30-2008, 10:07 AM   #2617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marell01 View Post
It is the same!!! But, they mentioned 396 at 3400 but check the graph, it says also 392 at 1500... Only thing is the mag only shows max Nm in numbers and that happens to come at 3400rpm!

On rototest you are able to see all the tests they have performed.


Not in my carmag I´m sorry:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...47781&page=118

the 392nm is at about 3000rpm
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      10-30-2008, 10:10 AM   #2618
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