[Watts2590]

I have a 2011 335is and I feel like my brakes are going way too quick. I got the car October 2015 with 18,500 miles on it. I did the front brakes and rotors at roughly 25k miles because the steering wheel was shaking anytime I hit the brake pedal. At about 32k the steering wheel was shaking again anytime I hit the brake pedal. At that time I again changed the front pads and rotors as well as the rears. Now I'm at 38k miles and again the steering wheel is shaking whenever I hit the brakes.

At this point I'm thinking the brakes I ordered from oembimmerparts are junk and that I'm better off going with the dealer but they quoted me almost $1k for front pads and rotors.

Anyone else experience this issue? How often do you change your front brakes? Also if you do order pads and rotors online where do you get them from?

[Efthreeoh]

It could be the front thrust arm bushings are bad. Brake vibration is one indication of it.

[Watts2590]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It could be the front thrust arm bushings are bad. Brake vibration is one indication of it.

Even though the last two times there was no shake what so ever after I got the brakes done?

[AWSB328iM]

I live in a flat area and get 75-100k miles out of my rotors and pads.

[Meeni]

Out of whack suspension components will cause uneven pad deposit on the rotors, and will act and feel exactly like a warped rotor. Since it recurs way too quickly for being normal wear, you should investigate the state of your control arms and suspension bushings. Also, an out of round wheel can also cause this. Because its a slow accumulation process that results in the eventual hotspot on the rotor, the problem may take time to develop after the rotors are turned/replaced.

[Watts2590]

Originally Posted by Meeni

Out of whack suspension components will cause uneven pad deposit on the rotors, and will act and feel exactly like a warped rotor. Since it recurs way too quickly for being normal wear, you should investigate the state of your control arms and suspension bushings. Also, an out of round wheel can also cause this. Because its a slow accumulation process that results in the eventual hotspot on the rotor, the problem may take time to develop after the rotors are turned/replaced.

Good to know. It has to be something because there's no way these brakes should go this quick. I just don't know much about inspecting the control arms and suspension bushings and what to look for.

[floydarogers]

Let's first clear away one thing: rotors do not warp. (At least on non-race cars.) What happens is that you get them hot enough for pad material to stick/adhere to them if they're engaged with the rotors (ie, you're holding the car from rolling with the brakes.)

That deposited material will eventually wear off, but obviously you have to change driving habits. (If you don't believe me on this, there are references all over the www. But everyone "knows" that rotors warp.)

While control arms do go bad, IME the car has to have well over 75K miles, usually over 125K miles. If you're doing track days, change to a track pad before going out, and change back when you get home.

[tlow98]

You could also have a sticking caliper. Unlikely at your mileage, but it’s possible.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Let's first clear away one thing: rotors do not warp. (At least on non-race cars.) What happens is that you get them hot enough for pad material to stick/adhere to them if they're engaged with the rotors (ie, you're holding the car from rolling with the brakes.)

That deposited material will eventually wear off, but obviously you have to change driving habits. (If you don't believe me on this, there are references all over the www. But everyone "knows" that rotors warp.)

While control arms do go bad, IME the car has to have well over 75K miles, usually over 125K miles. If you're doing track days, change to a track pad before going out, and change back when you get home.

Actually, rotors DO warp, and this can be measured with a run-out gauge.

Typically, cheap rotors will warp easier that better ones, which are typically heavier and have better heat dissipation.

Check your rotors for run-out. If they are warped, you can get Cryo-treated rotors from Porterfield, which will resolve the problem.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Watts2590

Even though the last two times there was no shake what so ever after I got the brakes done?

I was suggesting it as a starting point. The condition of brake components changes over time because brake dust gets the components dirty and road salt starts to rust parts, which could affect the appearance of the symptom. I'm on record here on the Forum that IMO people overstate the degradation of suspension bushings and replace them far too early, but the hydraulic bushings of the thrust arms are a known cause of brake vibration in the steering wheel. It would be unusual for this to be an issue at your low level of miles, but again, your brake condition is unusual as well.

Other Posters have given some good advice on where to go for a solution. I'll add one more. Have you checked the caliper guide pins for straightness and cleanliness? Not knowing the history of your car, some DIY'ers way over torque the caliper guide pins and distort the straightness of them, which leads to a binding caliper. The guide pins while they appear to hold the caliper to the cage only require around 25 - 35 lb.-ft. of torque (I forget the exact figure), but it is a low torque value nonetheless. People don't understand that the guide pins just locate the brake caliper over the disk and allow it to float in the caliper bracket as the pads move out and retract as the brake pedal is moved. If the caliper is binding, the pads can not fully retract and overheat leaving uneven deposits on the disk. Additionally, people lubricate the guide pins, which is incorrect. The pins should be clean, smooth and dry. Lubricating them eventually leads to binding because brake dust can gum up the lube and keep the calipers from floating properly.

There are a few companies that make a brake disk resurfacing hone. Easton products is one that comes to mind. These tools are used with an electric hand drill to lightly resurface the brake disk by removing any residual brake pad material on the disk face. What you've not indicated is what condition the brake pads are in when this issue comes up. Are the pads evenly worn? They should be. Is the piston-side pad far more worn than the floating-side pad? Such information is necessary to diagnose the issue further.

If you've been using BMW OE parts, they are not the issue. BMW brake components are first-rate.

GLWI

[mweisdorfer]

Maybe your calipers are sticking ? Check the wear pertaining to the inner vs outer pads.

[david in germany]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Actually, rotors DO warp, and this can be measured with a run-out gauge.

Typically, cheap rotors will warp easier that better ones, which are typically heavier and have better heat dissipation.

What you said it technically true. VERY VERY rare that it happens anymore on modern cars though. Part changers aka "Mechanics" rarely even check run out. Customer comes in and says that the car is shaking, 2.3 seconds later, car is diagnosed with warped rotors. Turning rotors takes time, time = money, selling new rotors makes money. I haven't seen a mechanic shop in over 20 years with the ability to turn/resurface a rotor.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Actually, rotors DO warp, and this can be measured with a run-out gauge.

Typically, cheap rotors will warp easier that better ones, which are typically heavier and have better heat dissipation.

Check your rotors for run-out. If they are warped, you can get Cryo-treated rotors from Porterfield, which will resolve the problem.

Your post might more believable if you hadn't included an advertisement.

Go to Google, and type "do brake rotors warp". The first and featured (also somewhat untrustworthy as it's a sponsored link) is from Raybestos, saying that they don't warp. But several of the next links also say the same thing.

Sorry, but your opinion is in the minority.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by david in germany

What you said it technically true. VERY VERY rare that it happens anymore on modern cars though. Part changers aka "Mechanics" rarely even check run out. Customer comes in and says that the car is shaking, 2.3 seconds later, car is diagnosed with warped rotors. Turning rotors takes time, time = money, selling new rotors makes money. I haven't seen a mechanic shop in over 20 years with the ability to turn/resurface a rotor.

I got my rotors resurface last year on my SUV at the dealer . They even suggested doing that before replacing the rotor. So far so good

[BMW ONLY]

Originally Posted by Watts2590

I have a 2011 335is and I feel like my brakes are going way too quick. I got the car October 2015 with 18,500 miles on it. I did the front brakes and rotors at roughly 25k miles because the steering wheel was shaking anytime I hit the brake pedal. At about 32k the steering wheel was shaking again anytime I hit the brake pedal. At that time I again changed the front pads and rotors as well as the rears. Now I'm at 38k miles and again the steering wheel is shaking whenever I hit the brakes.

At this point I'm thinking the brakes I ordered from oembimmerparts are junk and that I'm better off going with the dealer but they quoted me almost $1k for front pads and rotors.

Anyone else experience this issue? How often do you change your front brakes? Also if you do order pads and rotors online where do you get them from?

F the stealership. It is not your brakes.

[djh2]

Following another lead, the control arms will cause this sensation when braking if the (inner) hydraulic bushings start to leak. The information below applies at least for RWD cars

From underneath the car, follow the funky shaped suspension part diagonally from the hub toward the front of the car. At the car side, look for a characteristic black leak at the bottom of the mounting point. This need only be present on one side to shake your steering (my experience)

from this DIY post

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Your post might more believable if you hadn't included an advertisement.

Go to Google, and type "do brake rotors warp". The first and featured (also somewhat untrustworthy as it's a sponsored link) is from Raybestos, saying that they don't warp. But several of the next links also say the same thing.

Sorry, but your opinion is in the minority.

So you're implying that my post is unbelievable, because I told the OP where he could get Cryo-treated rotors?

I used to race a Gen.I Acura Integra (fat, heavy, Honda Civic with a twin-cam).

Before finding the cryo-treated rotors I would go through a couple of sets of rotors in a weekend. After that - a couple of seasons on a set.

If the OP does, in fact, have a problem warping rotors, then this is a solution. If it is deposits on the rotor, then a run-out gauge will show the rotors to be true, and this isn't the solution.

Don't know why telling the OP where he can find a solution makes the post unbelieveable, but whatever...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by djh2

Following another lead, the control arms will cause this sensation when braking if the (inner) hydraulic bushings start to leak. The information below applies at least for RWD cars

From underneath the car, follow the funky shaped suspension part diagonally from the hub toward the front of the car. At the car side, look for a characteristic black leak at the bottom of the mounting point. This need only be present on one side to shake your steering (my experience)

from this DIY post

The pic has the suspension arms labeled incorrectly. The what is labeled in the pic as the "lower control arm" is actually the upper control arm because its ball joint sits above the other ball joint on the steering knuckle. The Upper Arm is also called the Thrust Arm by BMW. The lower control arm is the lateral link from the knuckle to the middle of the subframe. It's also called the "Wishbone" by BMW. It's called the Lower Arm because its ball joint is below the Upper Arm ball joint.

The Upper Arm (Thrust Arm) is the suspension component that has the hydraulic bushing (non-M3) that is prone to leak.

Just wanted to clarify that.

[david in germany]

Originally Posted by rick100

I got my rotors resurface last year on my SUV at the dealer . They even suggested doing that before replacing the rotor. So far so good

You found a decent dealer!

[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by dmatre

So you're implying that my post is unbelievable, because I told the OP where he could get Cryo-treated rotors?

I used to race a Gen.I Acura Integra (fat, heavy, Honda Civic with a twin-cam).

Before finding the cryo-treated rotors I would go through a couple of sets of rotors in a weekend. After that - a couple of seasons on a set.

If the OP does, in fact, have a problem warping rotors, then this is a solution. If it is deposits on the rotor, then a run-out gauge will show the rotors to be true, and this isn't the solution.

Don't know why telling the OP where he can find a solution makes the post unbelieveable, but whatever...

Sorry to climb in on this so late, but dude, I have been in Motorsports for over 20 years, and have run at the very top level of endurance racing, and warped rotors are so rare that they constitute less than a decimal of a single percentage point of all brake vibration issues. Even with a runout gauge an uneven transfer layer can fool the tech into thinking a rotor is warped.

With floating rotors used in motorsport measuring runout is almost pointless.

The rotors on these cars are bombproof, and it would take some spectacular punishment to warp one of the OE rotors. Under normal daily use I would be absolutely astonished if a normal daily driver could manage it.

Bad suspension components leading to uneven transfer layer are 99.99% the most likely issue here.

I'm willing to bet his thrust arm bushings are shot and it's the root of his issue.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

Sorry to climb in on this so late, but dude, I have been in Motorsports for over 20 years, and have run at the very top level of endurance racing, and warped rotors are so rare that they constitute less than a decimal of a single percentage point of all brake vibration issues. Even with a runout gauge an uneven transfer layer can fool the tech into thinking a rotor is warped.

With floating rotors used in motorsport measuring runout is almost pointless.

The rotors on these cars are bombproof, and it would take some spectacular punishment to warp one of the OE rotors. Bad suspension components leading to uneven transfer layer are 99.99% the most likely issue here.

I'm willing to bet his thrust arm bushings are shot and it's the root of his issue.

I won't argue with you, but rather will ask a question:

Why would the worn bushings stop vibrating after he changes rotors? OP states this has happened more than one time - so I'm not sure how the bushings know to return to normal function after a rotor change.

[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by dmatre

I won't argue with you, but rather will ask a question:

Why would the worn bushings stop vibrating after he changes rotors? OP states this has happened more than one time - so I'm not sure how the bushings know to return to normal function after a rotor change.

Because the torque variance on the rotor is what initiates the vibration, and if the geometry is all over the place, it's going to get worse and worse as the heavy spots build up on the rotor.

The fact that dealers don't bed brakes 90% of the time to get an even transfer layer doesn't help matters.

If he had a brake hone and stripped the transfer layer off the current rotors I'm 100% certain the vibration would disappear for a brief while until the fubar'd transfer layer formed up again.

Eliminate the geometry change under load and that problem disappears.

If he had a set of Hawk blues he could put them in and hit the brakes at speed a couple times and that transfer layer would be stripped off. Those pads are SO aggressive they will tear any buildup right off, but if you do it with screwed up bushings you will destroy the rotors. I used to skuff off the endurance pad deposits using the Hawks before switching to different heat range pads depending on the climate where we raced.