[Jones68]

Thought this was kind of cool. Was wondering if the higher price of diesel fuel was worth it...

http://calcnexus.com/fuel-cost-calculator.php

[ddinse]

This is handy. Friends bust on me for paying more for diesel fuel. Often times a comparable gasser will run on premium unleaded which is close in cost anyway

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by ddinse

This is handy. Friends bust on me for paying more for diesel fuel. Often times a comparable gasser will run on premium unleaded which is close in cost anyway

Only thing is you need to factor in the cost of additives too. I pay $55 for a gallon of Optilube XPD and about $18 for the Power Service Diesel additive in gray bottle. I won't go into the math for cost per tank put you get my drift. Before anyone jumps on me for gray vs white bottle, i live in deep south where jelling diesel from cold is an impossibility (Temps never <38F here).

[Pierre Louis]

My last calculation was for a 2005 Mercedes E320 CDI which I drove for over 200,000 miles. Savings over premium fuel at the time when its wasn't as pricey as it is now (now premium is at least $.35 or so MORE expensive around where I live - the calculation included only a $.15 difference) was $10,000.

No contest. Diesel is much cheaper to run.

Oh, and I don't use additives since I only buy properly additized fuel from major brand name stations like Shell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, Mobil, and Texaco. Most of the time these brand name stations that have high volume in places have low diesel prices to boot.

[Spyro235]

I don't use additives, but my X5D is cheaper to run and WAY more comfortable and practical than my stage 2 335i I had before. It ran premium whcih fluctuates but is usually between 10c cheaper than D, or equivalent. Premium in NJ kind of fluctuates and can go above and below the price of diesel.

[RL18]

Personally I will always run my opti lube xpd and winter blend. Cleans deposits in the fuel system, adds lubricity, adds cetane, helps with the gel point (which is extremely important in Maine for me I've had fuel gel before and it sucked), and demulsifies water. I could careless what they put for additives, I'm still going run what I feel is the best additive. Shit it takes some gas stations half the winter to switch over to the winter blend here. Just peace of mind for me knowing that my fuel quality is consistent all the time.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

Personally I will always run my opti lube xpd and winter blend. Cleans deposits in the fuel system, adds lubricity, adds cetane, helps with the gel point (which is extremely important in Maine for me I've had fuel gel before and it sucked), and demulsifies water. I could careless what they put for additives, I'm still going run what I feel is the best additive. Shit it takes some gas stations half the winter to switch over to the winter blend here. Just peace of mind for me knowing that my fuel quality is consistent all the time.

Uh, and your data/proof is from where? Advanced chemistry degree? Sorry, a "feeling" is not enough for some of us.

No doubt stagnant diesel is not something I would want to put in my car at all. Cannot additize bad diesel and come ahead.

Cheers

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

]

Uh, and your data/proof is from where? Advanced chemistry degree? Sorry, a "feeling" is not enough for some of us.

No doubt stagnant diesel is not something I would want to put in my car at all. Cannot additize bad diesel and come ahead.

Cheers

I think you missed the part where I said "personally" I'm not telling anyone what to do. Only expressing my opinion just like you are right now.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

I think you missed the part where I said "personally" I'm not telling anyone what to do. Only expressing my opinion just like you are right now.

So, uh, your "personal" opinion includes the usual sales pitch for additives while feeling good about using them to avoid problems from bad diesel?

I guess I don't understand, you're right.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

So, uh, your "personal" opinion includes the usual sales pitch for additives while feeling good about using them to avoid problems from bad diesel?

I guess I don't understand, you're right.

No my personal opinion includes my personal opinion. My opinion is purely subjective so I don't need scientific proof or comprehensive data logging to back it up. Don't be ignorant and I'll gladly explain further my personal experience using additives in my diesels.

If you want change my opinion on additives then please do express how they do nothing at all and are a complete waste of money and time.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

No my personal opinion includes my personal opinion. My opinion is purely subjective so I don't need scientific proof or comprehensive data logging to back it up. Don't be ignorant and I'll gladly explain further my personal experience using additives in my diesels.

If you want change my opinion on additives then please do express how they do nothing at all and are a complete waste of money and time.

I've had two problems after using additives that coincidentally could have been caused by them. Is that the kind of "personal experience" you mean??

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

I've had two problems after using additives that coincidentally could have been caused by them. Is that the kind of "personal experience" you mean??

What were your two problems?

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

What were your two problems?

Fuel leakage in high pressure lines in one car. Fouling of NOx sensors and catalytic converters in another. Anecdotal, like you.

Additive chemistry is complex and likely reveals aftermarket sales hype to be of minuscule effectiveness, as most of what is in the additive bottle is plain 'ol diesel. No real data is ever revealed to the consumer for good reason.

Additives were on the market originally to solve a problem. Their "preventive" value is speculation at best.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Fuel leakage in high pressure lines in one car. Fouling of NOx sensors and catalytic converters in another. Anecdotal, like you.

Additive chemistry is complex and likely reveals aftermarket sales hype to be of minuscule effectiveness, as most of what is in the additive bottle is plain 'ol diesel. No real data is ever revealed to the consumer for good reason.

Additives were on the market originally to solve a problem. Their "preventive" value is speculation at best.

Well it doesn't make any sense that an additive would cause a leak so I'm thinking there was definitely something else that caused the leak on your hp line.

As for fouling a NOx sensor and a Dpf I am doubtful that the additive did that too, especially when it's suppose to increase cetane, which in turn make the combustion more efficient creating less soot. But Bmw also warns us about using certain things as it could cause issues down the road with increased soot in the dpf but as far as I know that's only an issue with using certain oils that aren't considered low soot oils.

As for my experience, I've been using opti lube as an additive since my first diesel I owned which was a 7.3 powerstroke. Before I used an additive it would take a whole lot longer to start on cold days below 32f and if it was below 0f that truck straight up refused to start, which was from a gas station that supposedly winterize their diesel fuel, and would crank forever. The additive solved this issue probably after a month or so of using the additive and I could cycle the glow plugs three times and it would turn over first try every time no matter the temperature vs 5 minutes of cranking before or not even starting. Then in my 335d when I first purchased it and was driving it around the first couple months I had noticed a weird jump in the idle on cold days in park or at low cruising rpm. I don't suspect it was from fuel gelling but rather from a combination of sludge build up and gelling caused from not never changing the fuel filter which had about 91k on it and the cold temperatures of Maine. After a month of only using this additive every fill up the idle jump went away, and then when I did my first oil change I replaced the fuel filter and it didn't look to be too bad considering it had 91k on it, which could mean that the additive did break down the sludge and deposits. As for the lubricity lots of people with the newer HD diesels swear by using additives that increase lubricity to help preserve their cp4 fuel pumps which have a reputation of being ticking time bombs, and the concept goes for just about any other fuel pump as well. Besides it's pretty well known that the ultra low sulfur diesel we have in the US has less lubricity than other countries, like in Europe. I couldn't tell you how much the cetane improve combustion efficiency since I don't log fuel mileage nor am I consistent in my driving habits, but manufacturers like Cummins even recommend using additives that increase cetane and lubricity. And a water Demulsifier separates the water and diesel in your fuel tank so it doesn't get sucked downstream. It's also used in heating oil tanks to do the same thing, which is helpful but I think the best thing would be to add a filter that separates air/water. I can't imagine there would be that much water in diesel fuel anyways unless a gas station is having issues with their tanks condensating.

But that's my reasoning for using additives in my diesels.

[Pierre Louis]

Its conceivable you are getting bad diesel and that additives might be helpful, but the side effects of additives are rarely explored and often totally denied. There is a saying in Medicine: if a medication has no potential side effects, it probably doesn't work either. Fuel leaks are certainly a possibility with some additives as well as release of built up deposits.

I for one will always put the best possible brand-name fuel in my cars. I've heard off brand vendors brag about how little additive they use to save on the price. Its common to find the best fuel at rock bottom prices when I look.

Funny, my first diesel was a 7.3 Powerstroke and I also had a 335d. The Navistar was flawless, while the 335d suffered the loss of NOx and catalytic converters after using a well-regarded additive. Maybe it would've happened later anyway, don't know, but anecdotes are not data.

Glad your issues were improved even if the real cause was not proven.

[DETSGTSTARSKY]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Its conceivable you are getting bad diesel and that additives might be helpful, but the side effects of additives are rarely explored and often totally denied. There is a saying in Medicine: if a medication has no potential side effects, it probably doesn't work either. Fuel leaks are certainly a possibility with some additives as well as release of built up deposits.

I for one will always put the best possible brand-name fuel in my cars. I've heard off brand vendors brag about how little additive they use to save on the price. Its common to find the best fuel at rock bottom prices when I look.

Funny, my first diesel was a 7.3 Powerstroke and I also had a 335d. The Navistar was flawless, while the 335d suffered the loss of NOx and catalytic converters after using a well-regarded additive. Maybe it would've happened later anyway, don't know, but anecdotes are not data.

Glad your issues were improved even if the real cause was not proven.

Are there any additives that you would use? I had a 335d that had fuel system contamination. I would use the same busy Shell 90 percent of the time. I didn't use anything in the fuel. Have an X5d now that had a high pressure pump grenade around 60k. Again no additives used.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Its conceivable you are getting bad diesel and that additives might be helpful, but the side effects of additives are rarely explored and often totally denied. There is a saying in Medicine: if a medication has no potential side effects, it probably doesn't work either. Fuel leaks are certainly a possibility with some additives as well as release of built up deposits.

I for one will always put the best possible brand-name fuel in my cars. I've heard off brand vendors brag about how little additive they use to save on the price. Its common to find the best fuel at rock bottom prices when I look.

Funny, my first diesel was a 7.3 Powerstroke and I also had a 335d. The Navistar was flawless, while the 335d suffered the loss of NOx and catalytic converters after using a well-regarded additive. Maybe it would've happened later anyway, don't know, but anecdotes are not data.

Glad your issues were improved even if the real cause was not proven.

I do miss my powerstroke. Easily one of the best sounding diesel engines and that gt38r was so damn loud. Funny you mention a leaking hp line, my 7.3 hp oil line gave out while I was trying to make a swift get away from my girlfriend driving behind me in my 335d on an on ramp getting on the highway. Had a nice high pressure mist that completely cover my 335ds front bumper, hood, windshield and roof. Good thing I keep quick cleaners and lots of microfiber cloths in my vehicles!!

I think we can both agree that buying the best fuel is the most important thing though. What additive were you running btw?

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by DETSGTSTARSKY

Are there any additives that you would use? I had a 335d that had fuel system contamination. I would use the same busy Shell 90 percent of the time. I didn't use anything in the fuel. Have an X5d now that had a high pressure pump grenade around 60k. Again no additives used.

The only additives I would use are the ones for clogged injectors - for deposits. This would be difficult to know and very unlikely because BMW injectors in their diesels are quite durable I hear. Some fuel injector cleaners for gasoline vehicles, like the highly regarded Techron additive, work by displacing the deposits with the Techron molecules. This adhesive effect may or may not contribute to carbon buildup, I don't know, as the burned fuel deposits stick to intake walls.

I've been lucky except for a while my diesel was from a local Texaco where one of the owners said they had a water-in-the-tank problem. Soon they changed to a non-branded station. I have much more trust of a national brand keeping quality up to protect its market, so they may have lost their franchise due to this. This may have contributed to failed NOx sensors and catalytic converters after I used fuel preservative for diesel by Stabil - a well known company since I was going away for a few weeks.

My only other use of additive was rewarded with fuel line leakage - I used Power Service silver bottle. It was very likely the cause IMO.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

My only other use of additive was rewarded with fuel line leakage - I used Power Service silver bottle. It was very likely the cause IMO.

Okay I'll give you that one. Power service is a terrible additive.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

Okay I'll give you that one. Power service is a terrible additive.

How would I know? It's pure speculation.

Like I said, additives were originally marketed on the premise of some problem to solve like cleaning fuel system, radiator leaks, that sort of thing. My 1993 Chevy 1500 Suburban kept having its single fuel injector clogged. Final solution was to find the right brand gasoline with proper cleaning ingredients (Mobil at the time/location).

There is no useful, scientific data EVER published that supports the use of additives as preventive. The benefits are probably minuscule and the side effects are not even looked into except by a rare SAE technical paper or two.

Your problems may have been solved by additives, which is great. So I guess when you asked who uses what additives, it was for solving current problems but you didn't specify.

Cheers.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

How would I know? It's pure speculation.

Like I said, additives were originally marketed on the premise of some problem to solve like cleaning fuel system, radiator leaks, that sort of thing. My 1993 Chevy 1500 Suburban kept having its single fuel injector clogged. Final solution was to find the right brand gasoline with proper cleaning ingredients (Mobil at the time/location).

There is no useful, scientific data EVER published that supports the use of additives as preventive. The benefits are probably minuscule and the side effects are not even looked into except by a rare SAE technical paper or two.

Your problems may have been solved by additives, which is great. So I guess when you asked who uses what additives, it was for solving current problems but you didn't specify.

Cheers.

This YouTube video does a pretty good job showing some of the attributes of using additives:

I'm not saying your wrong, but just like you feel as though I'm spreading misinformation by encouraging additives without sufficient evidence to support my claims. I feel you are spreading misinformation by claiming all additives as a scam and damaging because you had a bad experience which has minimal evidence to support your claims. That's all

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by RL18

This YouTube video does a pretty good job showing some of the attributes of using additives:

I'm not saying your wrong, but just like you feel as though I'm spreading misinformation by encouraging additives without sufficient evidence to support my claims. I feel you are spreading misinformation by claiming all additives as a scam and damaging because you had a bad experience which has minimal evidence to support your claims. That's all

Well, vitamins and anti-vaxxing are scams, so why wouldn't lack of any meaningful data produce an equal suspicion for "preventive" additives. If you read my posts, you'll see I see additives made to help specific problems more acceptable. This topic has been beaten to death. Thanks for offering a video, but its quite terrible and unscientific. I won't explain why if you can't see for yourself. (hint: testing pure additive for lubricity - they've got to be kidding!)

Cheers.