[Tuned335i]

So if I hear this correctly, the spike IS there due to whatever cause, but the TMAP sensor doesn't see it for one reason or another and that's why no codes are thrown? Acutally, would a code be thrown if the car was otherwise stock and for some reason an overboost condition was encountered by the stock ECU?

I know it's been said before but I just cannot believe these cars don't come stock with a boost gauge in the instrument cluster.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by per

Perhaps a silly question, but what will happen to the motor if we have boost spikes for 1 sec or 2, will the motor blow off and go into orbit or what will happen?

Originally Posted by scalbert

As for damage, not if the fuel is there and it should be.

I'm not overly concerned about the engine. I am concerned about the 6AT being tolerant of repeated spikes of torque levels produced by 20psi. Or does a 20psi spike not translate into considerably more than 400lb/ft at the wheels (even for short period of time)? There's no way I would want to put that much torque into the 6AT on a regular basis, at least not without expecting it to fail.

Ordering boost gauge this afternoon if I can't find one in town to install this weekend...

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

So if I hear this correctly, the spike IS there due to whatever cause, but the TMAP sensor doesn't see it for one reason or another and that's why no codes are thrown? Acutally, would a code be thrown if the car was otherwise stock and for some reason an overboost condition was encountered by the stock ECU?

No code as the PROcede clamps the signal to the DME. And yes, if a stock vehicle spiked, I am sure a code would be thrown.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

Or does a 20psi spike not translate into considerably more than 400lb/ft at the wheels (even for short period of time)?

No, you do not get a rush of torque with an 18 PSI spike; it occurs very quickly.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by scalbert

No code as the PROcede clamps the signal to the DME. And yes, if a stock vehicle spiked, I am sure a code would be thrown.

Thanks I guess I am having a real tough time understanding why the PROcede reading the same signal from the intake manifold sensor as the stock ECU, would read a different psi than a secondary gauge attached to the DV hoses.

I would kill for a resolution to all of this...it's bugging the crap out of me. Should be interesting to see if we get some insight when Vishnu gets back to the office on Monday...

[scalbert]

FYI, I downloaded the 2.0.2 map (to reload the default values) and went for a drive. Everything was fine and it responded as it should with a single exception. One time when in 3rd at 3k revs, I floored it and hit 18 PSI and then it quickly dropped to 13 PSI and slowly ramped up from there; as it should.

When I floored it just below 2500 RPM, it went to 13 PSI without a spike.

I floored it at 4000 RPM in 3rd and no spike

I even gave it about 50% throttle at 2500 revs, which brought the boost up to about 10 PSI, and then floored it and it went to about 13 - 14 PSI without a spike.

So, the issue would not be seen in the majority fo the cases. You really have to look for it.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

I guess I am having a real tough time understanding why the PROcede reading the same signal from the intake manifold sensor as the stock ECU, would read a different psi than a secondary gauge attached to the DV hoses.

Technically, the stock DME is only reading what the PROcede transmits to it. Only the PROcede truly reads the TMAP pressure signal.

I too am dumbfounded as to the discrepancy. If there is enough range with the TMAP sensor, then there must be a physical reason. I am wondering if there is a phase change in the VANOS system which could cause a reversion in the intake manifold under these specific conditions. This may not be seen outside of the manifold...

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by scalbert

No, you do not get a rush of torque with an 18 PSI spike; it occurs very quickly.

Thanks! That calms the nerves a LOT. My fear of 20psi in this car is based on a recent experience...A freind of mine with a 2003 5-series with a corvette engine and a home-brewed twin-turbo intercooled setup was replacing a power steering pump a few weeks ago and forgot to reconnect the vacuum lines to the wastegates. He got on the boost in traffic after leaving home on the way to work and the boost went to 20+ psi and destroyed the auto transmission (also out of a corvette). The motor is fine (Lingenfelter V8) but a new race trans is on order... Pic of the motor below.

Back on topic...I hope when Vishnu gets back to the office on Monday they can read through some of the boost control/spike threads and possibly add some new information.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

My fear of 20psi in this car is based on a recent experience...A freind of mine with a 2003 5-series with a corvette engine

That is great, a BMW with a Chevy drivetrain...

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by scalbert

That is great, a BMW with a Chevy drivetrain...

Yeah, his previous car was a late model RX7 where he did the same thing. In the 5-series you wouldn't know it was heavily modded on the road. Idling it sounds like a corvette. Before the tranny blew up it dyno'd just over 520WHP. It's pretty quick... Nice to have the president of our company be a motorhead!

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by scalbert

FYI, I downloaded the 2.0.2 map (to reload the default values) and went for a drive. Everything was fine and it responded as it should with a single exception. One time when in 3rd at 3k revs, I floored it and hit 18 PSI and then it quickly dropped to 13 PSI and slowly ramped up from there; as it should.

When I floored it just below 2500 RPM, it went to 13 PSI without a spike.

I floored it at 4000 RPM in 3rd and no spike

I even gave it about 50% throttle at 2500 revs, which brought the boost up to about 10 PSI, and then floored it and it went to about 13 - 14 PSI without a spike.

So, the issue would not be seen in the majority fo the cases. You really have to look for it.

Well, I just got back from some more testing . I couldn't get a laptop sorted in time so no data logs, but I'm going to validate Scalbert's results...

With default 2.0.1 settings:
WOT@2200rpm - no spike
WOT@4000rpm - no spike
I hit a 17+ psi spike must of the time when suddenly going WOT between those two ranges (2800rpm seemed like the magic number). Usually this was in 3rd but I got it to happen in 4th too.
Also, I saw some oscillation up to 15.2 psi above 6000rpm whilst in 3rd (didn't have much time to observe this though!)

Reduced the torque settings by 5% (i.e. 95% to 2000rpm, then down to 85% @3000-4000, then back to 95%@6000):
WOT@3000rpm - max boost I could provoke was 16.4 and it was down in the high rpm band too.
The spike is definitely still there with the reduced settings but not so large.
I'm going to keep these 5% reduced settings alone for now.

Scalbert, do you have any data logs you can share?

[Terry335]

Get an ASP pulley on that bad boy...

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

Thanks!

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Moggie

Scalbert, do you have any data logs you can share?

Yes, but nothing conclusive as the logs do not show the spikes. The first few times I got on it in the below iot did spike but the PROcede does not show this.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Moggie

Well, I just got back from some more testing . I couldn't get a laptop sorted in time so no data logs, but I'm going to validate Scalbert's results...

Not wanting to cast ill wishes, but I am glad to see someone else with the same results. I am thankful I am not alone on this.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Not wanting to cast ill wishes, but I am glad to see someone else with the same results. I am thankful I am not alone on this.

No worries. Funny thing is if I hadn't have installed a boost gauge in preparation for v2 I'd never have known..

I'll get my laptop fixed and see what results I log. Very curious that your *logs* are pretty much expected (this is with 2.0.2 default map, right?). Let's hope Shiv can shed some light.

[midlife]

Originally Posted by sirploppy

I came from the Evo world and the first mod, before doing anything, was to install a boost gauge. It was just common practice. I don't know why on this board it is not stressed more that with any mod, JBR2, PRocede, SSTT, Xede... a boost gauge should be installed first.

i agree that a $100? boost gauge would be a great and cheap add on.
but whose guage is best for our 335s , and where the h*ll to put it ?

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by midlife

i agree that a $100? boost gauge would be a great and cheap add on.
but whose guage is best for our 335s , and where the h*ll to put it ?

A Siemens/VDO (or rather now just VDO since Siemens sold off that business unit) works just fine:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71817

[Orb]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Naw, must have missed that. I beleive the problem for them is that they haven't personally seen this. We now have two (maybe more if tested properly) that have seen it. That is presumably less than 2% of installed V2 orders so it may take a little time. But I would suggest all install and test with a boost gauge.

O-cha had the same problem as mentioned here so that makes three. Shiv looked into this but couldn't determine the cause. One other user had the same issue but had a very minor leak which was caused spiking. I think all 3 cars are stock with PROcede only?

This did make me think that if there was a very minor leak the ECU may be adapting to it and overshooting under certain conditions so if this was the case then it may be possible that a mechanical device (diverter valve) is not responding predictably at certain boost levels. Hard problem to sort out as you can isolate sub system but you still have to view this as whole system and we have the PROcede as another variable. I know if you logged all the mechanical components retaining to boost that you should be able to determine the behavior when comparing it to another car with identical setup that has no problem.

You did mention that the problem was repeatable at 3000 RPM right were the maximum amount of torque is produced so I assuming boost as well?

Thanks for sharing…..

Orb

[Orb]

Originally Posted by e.n335

^ 11-19:



This has been the response to a customer who said he will wait with the V2 install until v2.0.2 will be reseased.

I want a solution now.

V2 has been announced as a version without boost related limp modes ( true ) and no boost spikes at all ( not true ). The overboost function should be optional. The speed limit defeat and O2 wideband support should be functional, as promised. Everything bullet-proof. If such a tune REQUIRES a city milage of 12mpg, I am ok with that. Otherwise here is some potential as well.

BTW, if the 2 big V2 harness resistors would have a tolerance of 5% or 10% it might be worth to have a look at resistors with a tolerance of 1%.

You know by yourself how it looks like as of today.

- Eugen

I was looking to replace and repackage those resistors as well as I’m redoing most of the harness. If you find something let me know.

Orb

[kenneth]

First, excuse my ignorance. What if you uninstall Procede and do the same testing on the stock configuration. Would you be getting boost spike, although maybe less, in the range of RPMs (3k-4k)?

[vase330]

Then if it does not spike stock you know its PROCede related. You guys being the guinea pigs will take the pain for everyone and maybe you should have those that benefit agree to compensate you for any damage your car gets because I am sure at least one person is going to suffer some damage. Just an idea.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by kenneth

First, excuse my ignorance. What if you uninstall Procede and do the same testing on the stock configuration. Would you be getting boost spike, although maybe less, in the range of RPMs (3k-4k)?

Beat me to it!