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      01-12-2020, 03:05 PM   #1
mokinbird87
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Are German cars unreliable?

hello everyone, do you all think German cars unreliable nowadays? (Hint: my wife drives the F30 335i M Sport) I made a video about it! Take a look at this video to find out, and don't forget to subscribe!

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      01-12-2020, 04:14 PM   #2
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All cars can be unreliable, so is everything else for that matter.
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      01-12-2020, 04:29 PM   #3
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Never had issues with my car.
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      01-12-2020, 04:32 PM   #4
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gist of the video really boils down to, do your research prior to purchasing, since every brand has faults. It's not correct to generalize brand reputation, but really we should be looking at specific models as car enthusiasts.
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      01-12-2020, 04:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokinbird87 View Post
gist of the video really boils down to, do your research prior to purchasing, since every brand has faults. It's not correct to generalize brand reputation, but really we should be looking at specific models as car enthusiasts.

This is very true. I've had one item that was unexpected, but everything else was either replaced/repaired in advance or went out around the same time my research suggested it would.
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      01-12-2020, 05:04 PM   #6
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Yes.
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      01-12-2020, 05:18 PM   #7
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I don't know who said it first but I've heard that if it drives, flys, floats or f@cks lease it.
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      01-12-2020, 07:47 PM   #8
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Nowadays it's mostly technology components that give the most failures. Sad part is a lot of those components are used in the engines or taking it completely over it.
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      01-12-2020, 08:11 PM   #9
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BMW and Audi's Twin Turbo V8's are some of the biggest pieces of junk to have a German badge stamped on them
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      01-12-2020, 09:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokinbird87 View Post
hello everyone, do you all think German cars unreliable nowadays?
If anything, they are probably more reliable now than before. That said, they cost a lot more new now than before and repair costs are higher too. Blame tech failures and costs as one reason. In 2005, my fully loaded 330xi (top 3 series model then) was about 40k. A fully loaded 340xi is 60k now, for example. A lot of the tech now wasn't even a dream back then.
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      01-12-2020, 09:40 PM   #11
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I think that German cars have a lot more technology in them vs. other cars. That stuff is great, until they start to age....and that means there is a lot more stuff to act up as they get older. They also seem to make more power, on smaller motors.....so that takes its toll over time.

Look at the N54 335i's........they are way more complicated than they need to be as far as sensors, and all of the stuff that the DME monitors....and throws fault codes if something isn't perfect.

These cars will throw a code if you fart in the seat 😀....way too sensitive.
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      01-12-2020, 10:14 PM   #12
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Reliability is always tricky because there are different types. There is short-term, like what CR and JD Power base their rankings/awards on and then there's long-term reliability. I think the Germans have more issues when it comes to long-term reliability. In the short-run (say a lease) I have found them to be excellent and if anything to only have a minor issue maybe once or twice, but nothing major, in the three years and 36k miles of ownership. Long-term that's a different story, I won't act like after owning my E46 330i and E36 325i for anywhere from 10-15 years each that they aren't an expensive/problematic vehicle to own long-term as they age.

When it comes to reliability, the Germans aren't the worst in my opinion, that would go to the Italians (Fiat, Alfa, etc.), the British (JLR), and even some of the recent American brands (Chrysler/FCA) I find to be pretty much at the bottom.

I believe a lot of new car reliability problems particularly are because of the increased use of technology. This has affected many new cars such as Volvo who has been getting worse and worse in reliability because of this, not to mention the technology simply doesn't seem to stand the test of time well in some cars, and can be really expensive when/if it breaks.

The Germans will never beat the Toyota/Lexus in reliability in my opinion though, when it comes to reliability, they are the benchmark. Having a problematic Toyota/Lexus can happen, but it is a more rare situation.
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      01-12-2020, 11:20 PM   #13
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I can say my BMW has been the most unreliable car I've had.

So yes, I think they are unreliable compared to most other brands.
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      01-13-2020, 12:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
I think that German cars have a lot more technology in them vs. other cars.
That's all marketing. Cheaper Japanese cars and domestics offer similar safety and tech at a fraction of the cost. In fact, in many situations, they offer them standard on their $2x,xxx cars and the Germans offer them as options on their $7x,xxx cars. Seriously, how hard is it for a circuit to work!

While we're on the subject, don't get me started on the whole "over-engineered" BS! If they were over-engineered, they wouldn't fail. It's cutting corners, saving money, or simply overlooking issues (bad engineering) that causes these cars to have issues and fail. It is not "over-engineering" as the marketing department puts it. They are just brainwashing and compensating for bad engineering.
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      01-13-2020, 10:16 AM   #15
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In my personal experience, yes.

That's not to say they aren't good.
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      01-13-2020, 10:35 AM   #16
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Everything is getting over complicated and less reliable these days.

My ZL1 has had a Chronic Check Engine Light since October, the dealer can't seem to figure it out.

I am afraid of the latest batch of these super diesel trucks that are out this year too, they all have 1000 ft/lbs and are silent...but whats going to break first (I had a cursed 6.0L Ford Diesel back in the day).

I think I'm going to keep my comparatively simple 6.2L Raptor for a while (71,000 miles, has never been back to the dealer, did have one easy to fix, with the help of the internet, fuse issue)
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      01-13-2020, 11:08 AM   #17
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I don't know that I'd say unreliable.

I'd say the require far more preventative maintenance, that is very expensive, compared to other modern vehicles.

My 135i was leaking from every seal on the engine with less 32k miles on it. Granted not enough to lose oil, just weeping enough to make the engine filthy. And it's not uncommon.
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      01-13-2020, 12:13 PM   #18
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They're more reliable (aka durable) than they were even 10 yrs ago and are comparatively reliable to everyone else within the first 50k miles.

IMO the problem is that BMW engineering focuses too much effort on assembly efficiency at the expense of repair efficiency and they don't make up for it with more durable parts.

Take the humble valve cover gasket as an example. The $$$ to replace on a N55 is comparable to a V6 Toyota but the it fails twice as often compared to the Toyota AND unlike Toyota you always have to consider replacing the valve cover itself.

German makes are engineered to last about 120k miles (10 years). The Germans want you to lease their latest cars and not actually buy them.

EU cars are built to be easily recycled. That's a fact.
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      01-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #19
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All of the electronic gizmos are what is making them so complicated. My buddy's wife just bought a new Honda Pilot with all the options....paid something around $45k+ for it.

He said it's like driving a computer....between the big touch screen in the dash, all the gps and navigation stuff, the 6+ cameras it's got on it, the fact that it bluetootha into your phone as soon as you get in rhrbcar, lane assist, lane change warning, automatic braking, on and on and on....he said it's nuts.

He said the salesman put on an hour long presentation for them on just how to use all the tech that's in the car.....he said that in order to even get to the remote battery terminals (if you ever needed to jump start it)...you have to spend about 30 minute pulling plastic panels off...and you have to remove the entire intake air box.

On a car like that....who is even going to want it when stuff starts getting glitchy on it?? Way to complicated.
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      01-13-2020, 12:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
They're more reliable (aka durable) than they were even 10 yrs ago and are comparatively reliable to everyone else within the first 50k miles.

IMO the problem is that BMW engineering focuses too much effort on assembly efficiency at the expense of repair efficiency and they don't make up for it with more durable parts.

Take the humble valve cover gasket as an example. The $$$ to replace on a N55 is comparable to a V6 Toyota but the it fails twice as often compared to the Toyota AND unlike Toyota you always have to consider replacing the valve cover itself.

German makes are engineered to last about 120k miles (10 years). The Germans want you to lease their latest cars and not actually buy them.

EU cars are built to be easily recycled. That's a fact.
If you have ever been over to Germany (where my wife is from), the first thing you notice is that there are hardly any older cars there. There emmisions and safety rules are so tight, and constantly getting tighter ever year....most cars won't pass after 5+ years. People just lease or trade in for something new every few years. Even something as simple as a rust hole in a body panel will make your car not road legal over there.

It makes sense that they design them to only last 10 years and then get rid of them....
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      01-13-2020, 12:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
They're more reliable (aka durable) than they were even 10 yrs ago and are comparatively reliable to everyone else within the first 50k miles.

IMO the problem is that BMW engineering focuses too much effort on assembly efficiency at the expense of repair efficiency and they don't make up for it with more durable parts.

Take the humble valve cover gasket as an example. The $$$ to replace on a N55 is comparable to a V6 Toyota but the it fails twice as often compared to the Toyota AND unlike Toyota you always have to consider replacing the valve cover itself.

German makes are engineered to last about 120k miles (10 years). The Germans want you to lease their latest cars and not actually buy them.

EU cars are built to be easily recycled. That's a fact.
If you have ever been over to Germany (where my wife is from), the first thing you notice is that there are hardly any older cars there. There emmisions and safety rules are so tight, and constantly getting tighter ever year....most cars won't pass after 5+ years. People just lease or trade in for something new every few years. Even something as simple as a rust hole in a body panel will make your car not road legal over there.

It makes sense that they design them to only last 10 years and then get rid of them....
They used to get dumped in Eastern Europe and I imagine that hasn't changed.
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      01-13-2020, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Reliability is always tricky because there are different types. There is short-term, like what CR and JD Power base their rankings/awards on and then there's long-term reliability. I think the Germans have more issues when it comes to long-term reliability. In the short-run (say a lease) I have found them to be excellent and if anything to only have a minor issue maybe once or twice, but nothing major, in the three years and 36k miles of ownership. Long-term that's a different story, I won't act like after owning my E46 330i and E36 325i for anywhere from 10-15 years each that they aren't an expensive/problematic vehicle to own long-term as they age.

When it comes to reliability, the Germans aren't the worst in my opinion, that would go to the Italians (Fiat, Alfa, etc.), the British (JLR), and even some of the recent American brands (Chrysler/FCA) I find to be pretty much at the bottom.

I believe a lot of new car reliability problems particularly are because of the increased use of technology. This has affected many new cars such as Volvo who has been getting worse and worse in reliability because of this, not to mention the technology simply doesn't seem to stand the test of time well in some cars, and can be really expensive when/if it breaks.

The Germans will never beat the Toyota/Lexus in reliability in my opinion though, when it comes to reliability, they are the benchmark. Having a problematic Toyota/Lexus can happen, but it is a more rare situation.
I agree. There is so much technology in modern luxury cars to go wrong. On the other hand, Lexus has managed to keep its car reliable despite being a luxury brand. It is true that Lexus stays away from cutting edge stuff whereas the Germans tend to lead with it and that probably contributes to the differentiation.

Because of all the technology to go wrong, and how expensive it is to repair or replace it, I intend to keep my car not more than seven years. that will let me take care of any major failure issues between BMW's warranty and my GEICO mechanical breakdown insurance.
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