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      09-25-2021, 12:08 PM   #1
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Bimmerlabs 328-to-330 MSV80 Winkfp Install -- Help Please

hassmaschine , Terraphantm , rjahl

My son and I got lured into swapping the single stage intake manifold to the 3-stage manifold by the E32William youtube video. We followed all of the Bimmerlab instructions precisely multiple times, but now have a bricked DME.

We started the process with a known working ODB II cable, and got 10% complete on the winkfp RSADelete process before the battery on the car died and the process failed. We then got a new battery and a ham radio, constant voltage, current supply and hooked that up to the car while doing the RSADelete. With this setup we got to 55% on the winkfp process before the no-communication (IFH-009) error on winkfp. We verified that the car was drawing around 20 amps while trying to program due to the water pump and fuel pump running. This is under the 40 A @ 15V rating of the battery charger and we have verified the terminal voltage is 13V during the program.

We then ordered a BimmerGeeks pro cable and got their technician to remotely logon to the system to help us verify that the cable was good and to get the car programmed. It was very obvious that this guy knows what he is doing. He stated that he could communicate with the DME, but that the DME doesn't know what it is e.g. it doesn't know that it is a DME, and that that is keeping him from being able to flash the DME. He verified that the cable was good.

He told me that he reached out to Terraphantm for additional help, and suggested that we contact bimmerlabs for help. We have done this a couple of times, but haven't gotten any response.

We need help forcing the MSV80 DME to accept a program. Does anyone know how to do this?
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      09-25-2021, 07:55 PM   #2
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I had a 07 Z4 that failed during the RSADelete. I at least got it working by flashing the stock DME file back on it. I never yet attempted again, but one day I will.
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      09-26-2021, 10:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mantraxalos View Post
I had a 07 Z4 that failed during the RSADelete. I at least got it working by flashing the stock DME file back on it. I never yet attempted again, but one day I will.
Actually the 07 Z4 is pretty easy to flash and the Bimmerlabs tools work very well on this car. It's one of the early Bimmerlabs test subjects. I had two very abused DMEs.

The battery on this model is pretty small, if it's old it will have a hard time managing a full program flash. In the early days I had the trace value set high and it could take 40 minutes to flash a program. With the recommended settings it should take something like 10 minutes.

Calibration files will flash in less than a minute. I'd go to work with one tune, make adjustments to the tune during lunch and flash a new file at a gas station near the office and drive the revised tune on the way home.
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      09-26-2021, 11:06 AM   #4
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Did you make a folder within the nfs/data folder? If not extract only the rsa delete files there. Then once the rsa is completed, delete those files and extract the 328-330 files there and open that batch file.
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      09-26-2021, 02:41 PM   #5
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Still no luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
Did you make a folder within the nfs/data folder? If not extract only the rsa delete files there. Then once the rsa is completed, delete those files and extract the 328-330 files there and open that batch file.
Thank you for the response. I just gave this a try, but it did not change the result. This is the result that I am still getting from the RSADelete.bat execution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iiW...ew?usp=sharing
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      09-26-2021, 07:20 PM   #6
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Yep, that’s your issue. The .bat file that you double click first should be the rsa delete file. Not the 328-330 .bat file. Both are named MSV80.bat

Double check. Also make sure your cable is set. Make sure there’s a charger on the jumper post under hood and that there’s good current and voltage.

But I’ll put $10 you’re trying to start with the wrong file, I had this happen to me yesterday
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      09-26-2021, 08:34 PM   #7
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Call Your Bet

Twix , thank you for continuing to look at this. What about the link I posted told you that I was not running the RSADelete MSV80.bat file?
I moved my existing DEVELOP directory in C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\ to C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\DEVELOP.bimmergeeks and created a new C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\DEVELOP. I then unzipped the MSV_RSADelete_0049QK0MI20S.zip into that directory. That directory contains:
MSV80.bat
MSV80.ctl
MSV80_RSADelete_004QK0MI20S.0pa
README.TXT
I double clicked on the MSV80.bat file and the link I posted shows the result. I did verify that the Com1 port settings were correct, that the battery charger was hooked up, and that INPA could connect to the car and IDENT the DME.

Based on my exchanges with the BimmerGeeks technician, my understanding is that there is some type of DME "forced erase" or something that needs to happen at this point to get the DME to accept the RSA Delete.

The link below shows the output of the INPA->IDENT command. I believe the problem is the DME doesn't know what kind of DME it is.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cjf...ew?usp=sharing
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      09-26-2021, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpalmer7440 View Post
Twix , thank you for continuing to look at this. What about the link I posted told you that I was not running the RSADelete MSV80.bat file?
I moved my existing DEVELOP directory in C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\ to C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\DEVELOP.bimmergeeks and created a new C:\EC-APPS\NFS\data\DEVELOP. I then unzipped the MSV_RSADelete_0049QK0MI20S.zip into that directory. That directory contains:
MSV80.bat
MSV80.ctl
MSV80_RSADelete_004QK0MI20S.0pa
README.TXT
I double clicked on the MSV80.bat file and the link I posted shows the result. I did verify that the Com1 port settings were correct, that the battery charger was hooked up, and that INPA could connect to the car and IDENT the DME.

Based on my exchanges with the BimmerGeeks technician, my understanding is that there is some type of DME "forced erase" or something that needs to happen at this point to get the DME to accept the RSA Delete.

The link below shows the output of the INPA->IDENT command. I believe the problem is the DME doesn't know what kind of DME it is.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cjf0b_FBMZv5qvTqFgiR4OfXa8w8PWK1/view?usp=sharing
That's pretty standard for a DME in recovery mode.

It's not fully "booting up" so it's not able to report ID data over CAN.

Who from Bimmergeeks are you working with? I know Dylan is very experience and should be able to sort out our problems.
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      09-26-2021, 09:16 PM   #9
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rjahl Dylan is working on this as well as some other BimmerGeeks folks. We are also collectively, but independently trying to get the attention of the Bimmerlabs folks too..

As far as the DME not fully booting, what can we do to get a program loaded onto the DME in its current state? Is the RSA Delete still necessary with the DME in this state?

We have reached out to RPM Motorsports and the Open Flash Tablet folks too, but neither of them will work with the Bimmerlabs 328-to-330 flash that we need to enable the DISA valve controls on the 3-stage manifold.
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      09-27-2021, 11:45 AM   #10
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DME Recovery Mode

rjahl , Based on your latest response I did some searching on MSV80 DME Recovery Mode and found this link: https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...ptions.973512/
This link mentions some method for programming a DME in this particular state that was identified by Terraphantm. I believe that I have scoured the forum for the post that mentions this method, but I haven't found anything.
The link implies that there is some type of failsafe programming period between the application of power to the DME and it booting into the non-programmable state. Does any of this ring-a-bell to you? Is there anything else we need to do first?
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      09-27-2021, 12:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpalmer7440 View Post
rjahl , Based on your latest response I did some searching on MSV80 DME Recovery Mode and found this link: https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...ptions.973512/
This link mentions some method for programming a DME in this particular state that was identified by Terraphantm. I believe that I have scoured the forum for the post that mentions this method, but I haven't found anything.
The link implies that there is some type of failsafe programming period between the application of power to the DME and it booting into the non-programmable state. Does any of this ring-a-bell to you? Is there anything else we need to do first?

Recovery mode is just the state the DME will enter when it boots up with an incomplete or invalid flash. The DME will usually still accept flash commands but most CAN communications are limited. Sometimes, the UIF sections are so messed up the DME can no longer broadcast it's ZF numbers. Therefor programs like WINFKP can't talk to it easily.

WINFKP expert mode mostly forces the flash to the DME without most of the checks in comfort mode. The Bimmerlabs flash batch files are expert mode scripts and should work without valid UIF data.

Try this, connect your car to INPA in expert mode use the DME diagnostics page in INPA. If you can get the DME to respond to the ECU temperature request, The DME is at least running and the boot code is probably intact. Use the same configuration settings as found in Bimmerlabs flash Batch file. DME address, IPO file name etc.



Don't try to flash anything at this point. Just see if it's alive and talking.

It's possible you simply have a bad flash and you have some other hardware or setup related issue preventing you from completing a flash. Do you remember how long it took the flash to reach 50% were it failed?
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      09-27-2021, 01:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Recovery mode is just the state the DME will enter when it boots up with an incomplete or invalid flash. The DME will usually still accept flash commands but most CAN communications are limited. Sometimes, the UIF sections are so messed up the DME can no longer broadcast it's ZF numbers. Therefor programs like WINFKP can't talk to it easily.

WINFKP expert mode mostly forces the flash to the DME without most of the checks in comfort mode. The Bimmerlabs flash batch files are expert mode scripts and should work without valid UIF data.

Try this, connect your car to INPA in expert mode use the DME diagnostics page in INPA. If you can get the DME to respond to the ECU temperature request, The DME is at least running and the boot code is probably intact. Use the same configuration settings as found in Bimmerlabs flash Batch file. DME address, IPO file name etc.



Don't try to flash anything at this point. Just see if it's alive and talking.

It's possible you simply have a bad flash and you have some other hardware or setup related issue preventing you from completing a flash. Do you remember how long it took the flash to reach 50% were it failed?
rjahl I am not sure what you mean by "INPA in expert mode", but I did run INPA as Administrator. I could not find the "ECU Temperature Request" in INPA, but believe that I have seen that in Winkfp expert mode?. I did get the component errors list printed from INPA https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D28...ew?usp=sharing,
which shows 578E, CF1C, and 5821 errors for the DME.

Please help me understand how to get to the "ECU Temperature Request" that you referred to in INPA.

Also, I recall it being a little shy of 15 minutes to get to the 55% RSA Delete. This was our first attempt after replacing the battery and having the charger hooked up to the car. We have not been able to get back to this point.

Thank you for your edification.
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      09-27-2021, 02:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpalmer7440 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Recovery mode is just the state the DME will enter when it boots up with an incomplete or invalid flash. The DME will usually still accept flash commands but most CAN communications are limited. Sometimes, the UIF sections are so messed up the DME can no longer broadcast it's ZF numbers. Therefor programs like WINFKP can't talk to it easily.

WINFKP expert mode mostly forces the flash to the DME without most of the checks in comfort mode. The Bimmerlabs flash batch files are expert mode scripts and should work without valid UIF data.

Try this, connect your car to INPA in expert mode use the DME diagnostics page in INPA. If you can get the DME to respond to the ECU temperature request, The DME is at least running and the boot code is probably intact. Use the same configuration settings as found in Bimmerlabs flash Batch file. DME address, IPO file name etc.



Don't try to flash anything at this point. Just see if it's alive and talking.

It's possible you simply have a bad flash and you have some other hardware or setup related issue preventing you from completing a flash. Do you remember how long it took the flash to reach 50% were it failed?
rjahl I am not sure what you mean by "INPA in expert mode", but I did run INPA as Administrator. I could not find the "ECU Temperature Request" in INPA, but believe that I have seen that in Winkfp expert mode?. I did get the component errors list printed from INPA https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D284IrJm_pKy5sXA36EyFqpZb5WCZNXl/view?usp=sharing,
which shows 578E, CF1C, and 5821 errors for the DME.

Please help me understand how to get to the "ECU Temperature Request" that you referred to in INPA.

Also, I recall it being a little shy of 15 minutes to get to the 55% RSA Delete. This was our first attempt after replacing the battery and having the charger hooked up to the car. We have not been able to get back to this point.

Thank you for your edification.
Ya sorry, winfkp in expert mode.

The DME section has diagnostic tools, one of them being temperature

I'll try to pull up a screen shot later tonight.
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      09-27-2021, 02:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Ya sorry, winfkp in expert mode.

The DME section has diagnostic tools, one of them being temperature

I'll try to pull up a screen shot later tonight.
rjahl, This screenshot shows the output of the ECU Temp from Winkfp Expert mode. https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Hx...ew?usp=sharing
This screenshot shows the ECU Ident from Winkfp in Expert mode:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gkf...ew?usp=sharing
Can you tell what state the DME is getting to based on this output?
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      09-27-2021, 05:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpalmer7440 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Ya sorry, winfkp in expert mode.

The DME section has diagnostic tools, one of them being temperature

I'll try to pull up a screen shot later tonight.
rjahl, This screenshot shows the output of the ECU Temp from Winkfp Expert mode. https://drive.google.com/file/d/10HxGZ3D6A4NEk00XprxJOLburMb9cdut/view?usp=sharing
This screenshot shows the ECU Ident from Winkfp in Expert mode:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GkfoVdaChHxmiQThAyyiqrMYBfzU0FgL/view?usp=sharing
Can you tell what state the DME is getting to based on this output?
That's a good sign, I would not worry about the temperature thing, looks like it's not supported for your DME.

It appears like your DME is running but can't get past boot mode with no valid program installed. If winfkp comfort mode can't get a valid software ID it won't work.

Expert mode has fewer checks and will flash just about anything onto the DME right or wrong. If you know the actual stock program and calibration file for your car, you can copy them into the Develop folder and flash them from expert mode. Tick the update program box before you start. Look at the Bimmerlabs batch files for full address of the develop folder. Expert mode will only look in that folder for files.

Warning, you need to be sure that you have selected the correct 0da and 0pa files as winfkp will not check them in expert mode. If your are not 100% sure don't do it.

If this process starts but fails before 99%, you have something wrong with your laptop, cable , ODB port battery etc.

15 minutes for 50% seems slow, do you have the trace value set to zero?

I know, this a scary. Had this happen to me a long time ago and there were no resources available to help me through it. Even sent my DME to AA for help but they could not fix it. They simple gave up and mailed it back to me. In the end, I recovered mine using expert mode.
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      09-27-2021, 06:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
That's a good sign, I would not worry about the temperature thing, looks like it's not supported for your DME.

It appears like your DME is running but can't get past boot mode with no valid program installed. If winfkp comfort mode can't get a valid software ID it won't work.

Expert mode has fewer checks and will flash just about anything onto the DME right or wrong. If you know the actual stock program and calibration file for your car, you can copy them into the Develop folder and flash them from expert mode. Tick the update program box before you start. Look at the Bimmerlabs batch files for full address of the develop folder. Expert mode will only look in that folder for files.

Warning, you need to be sure that you have selected the correct 0da and 0pa files as winfkp will not check them in expert mode. If your are not 100% sure don't do it.

If this process starts but fails before 99%, you have something wrong with your laptop, cable , ODB port battery etc.

15 minutes for 50% seems slow, do you have the trace value set to zero?

I know, this a scary. Had this happen to me a long time ago and there were no resources available to help me through it. Even sent my DME to AA for help but they could not fix it. They simple gave up and mailed it back to me. In the end, I recovered mine using expert mode.
rjahl , thank you for taking time to look at this and provide some much valuable feedback.
As far as the stock program for the car, we have tried to go through the .his files for his program version 7576636, but don't have the 'latest' file available in our SP-Daten (we are on 60.1 I believe). hassmaschine has told me with confidence that the stock tunes on the Bimmerlabs website are correct for this DME. When I use the "findECU" program it tells me to use the ZB# 8608330, which corresponds to one of the numbers on the Bimmerlabs site. The Bimmerlabs site though has HW# -Program and ZB# - Tune - (Batch Flash/Raw/Binary). This is a screenshot of what I get for stock tunes in our Bimmerlabs account.

Given that 8608330 correlates with the second row of that table, which files do I need to download, e.g. both 7602220A.0pa.zip and S8608329.0da.zip, or just one or the other? If I store these in the DEVELOP folder, then I assume that I would use 12MSV80.prg for the P-SGDB, 12msv80.ipo for the PADB, 12 as the ECU-Address, and then what for the Data file and Program file? Is the Data file the 7602220A.0pa file, and the Program file the S8608329.0da file?
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      09-27-2021, 06:51 PM   #17
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You need both the 0da (data) and 0Pa (program) files. Place the unzipped versions in the "Develop" folder and use the .PRG and .IPO files with the ECU address mentioned.

In theory, you should be able to simply download the ZIPs files files from Bimmerlabs and execute the batch files. Program version first (0PA). It's nearly the same thing. The Control file in the Bimmerlabs download is just a script to make things easy.
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      09-27-2021, 09:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
You need both the 0da (data) and 0Pa (program) files. Place the unzipped versions in the "Develop" folder and use the .PRG and .IPO files with the ECU address mentioned.

In theory, you should be able to simply download the ZIPs files files from Bimmerlabs and execute the batch files. Program version first (0PA). It's nearly the same thing. The Control file in the Bimmerlabs download is just a script to make things easy.
rjahl I have been trying this for the past couple of hours without *any* successes. Specifically, I cannot get past the "IFH-0009: No response from control unit" errors. I tried playing with the port-level baud rates, three different cables, one of which is the BimmerGeeks cable -- which has never gotten past the IFH-0009 error, the one that got to 55% a couple of weeks ago, and one from my neighbor that has worked for him for years. The DME appears to be answering the IDENT requests without any problem, but does not accept writing. I even get an "Error 500: Wrong ECU identifier DS: 0049QKOM, ECU:" when if finish loading the parameters in WinKfp Expert Mode, but get the IFH-0009 error when I click Program. I also tried two different laptops, one a very old Windows 7 box, and the other a recent MacBook Pro running Windows 10 off of a bootable SSD drive. Same errors across both computers and all three cable combinations. If the DME was easy to remove it would be in the road right now getting smashed (or sliced in half with a plasma cutter...).

Have you ever heard of a usb-odb2 cable going bad during a flash? Maybe getting too hot or something?

Have you ever heard of a fuse or relay causing a programming problem like this where the device will IDENT and UIF, but not program?

Do you know of anyone besides Hass that has bench flashed any of the Bimmerlabs tunes onto a MSV80 DME?

I found a used MSV80 DME, with a similar assembly number as this one, on Ebay. Do you believe that it would be easier at this point to fight through the key issues with a different DME that is presumably programmed?
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      09-28-2021, 07:52 AM   #19
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Sorry to hear this, short on time this morning but this is my advice.

1. Stay with the windows laptop and the BimmerGeeks cable. It's probably the standard ODB cable that got you into this mess. One of the reasons why Hassmachine feels so strongly about them and really does not want to become involved in supporting people who do not follow this advice.

2. Keep the known working settings on the laptop, latency baud rate etc. These work. Eliminate possible problems.

3. Are you flashing the program (0pa) first and then the calibration file (0da)?

Terra and Hass have the most experience that I know with this.

I had a loose connection in my BimmerGeeks cable, but it was easy to diagnose and fix. A wire socket inside the ODB came loose, creating intermittent problems. I opened the plug pushed in the socket and it's been good for the last two years. This never caused a problem with my flashing as I always check the DME status with INPA before flashing. This helps insure that I have a good connection and lets me know if I have some other error or problem with the car BEFORE the flash.
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      09-29-2021, 10:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Sorry to hear this, short on time this morning but this is my advice.

1. Stay with the windows laptop and the BimmerGeeks cable. It's probably the standard ODB cable that got you into this mess. One of the reasons why Hassmachine feels so strongly about them and really does not want to become involved in supporting people who do not follow this advice.

2. Keep the known working settings on the laptop, latency baud rate etc. These work. Eliminate possible problems.

3. Are you flashing the program (0pa) first and then the calibration file (0da)?

Terra and Hass have the most experience that I know with this.

I had a loose connection in my BimmerGeeks cable, but it was easy to diagnose and fix. A wire socket inside the ODB came loose, creating intermittent problems. I opened the plug pushed in the socket and it's been good for the last two years. This never caused a problem with my flashing as I always check the DME status with INPA before flashing. This helps insure that I have a good connection and lets me know if I have some other error or problem with the car BEFORE the flash.
rjahl Thank you for this advice. This may explain why hassmaschine nor Terraphantm will respond to any of my PMs on this post and why I haven't gotten *any* response from my numerous attempts to contact Bimmerlabs.

PLEASE LET THIS BE A WARNING TO ANYONE ELSE TRYING THE 328-to-330 3 STAGE MANIFOLD INSTALL. BUY A BIMMERGEEKS CABLE BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE.
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      10-09-2021, 11:53 PM   #21
bpalmer7440
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We got the DME reprogrammed by BimECU for a very reasonable price. These guys provided very quick communications and service and installed the Bimmerlabs 328-to-330 software on the DME. These guys went above and beyond and we are super happy with their service. When we got the DME/CAS/key back we simply installed these components, cycled the engine a few times and now it is running great. This also allowed us to test the DISA valves using INPA. We really appreciate the hard work of hassmaschine , Terraphantm , rjahl , Levanime for developing the tune and for helping us get it working on this car.

We believe that our primary problem with performing the coding ourselves was due to the ODB2 connection on this particular 2007 328i *not* having CAN bus connections. This is something that we discovered by taking the footwell cover off and inspecting the wiring going into the ODB2. The image below is of the back of our ODB2 plug. The wiring for this ODB2 connection is discussed in this post: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=17
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      10-10-2021, 12:46 PM   #22
rjahl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpalmer7440 View Post
We got the DME reprogrammed by BimECU for a very reasonable price. These guys provided very quick communications and service and installed the Bimmerlabs 328-to-330 software on the DME. These guys went above and beyond and we are super happy with their service. When we got the DME/CAS/key back we simply installed these components, cycled the engine a few times and now it is running great. This also allowed us to test the DISA valves using INPA. We really appreciate the hard work of hassmaschine , Terraphantm , rjahl , Levanime for developing the tune and for helping us get it working on this car.

We believe that our primary problem with performing the coding ourselves was due to the ODB2 connection on this particular 2007 328i *not* having CAN bus connections. This is something that we discovered by taking the footwell cover off and inspecting the wiring going into the ODB2. The image below is of the back of our ODB2 plug. The wiring for this ODB2 connection is discussed in this post: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=17

Glad you found the problem, For the sake of others, Does your original CAN cable set up read the DME properly through INPA or did you need to modify/switch your DCAN cable. Sounds like my old Z4, Pin 7 and Pin 8 needed to be bridged for the cable to work correctly.
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