[BMWfan07]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Guys, FWIW I wrote Car and Driver. I did not link them to this forum as I figured that was probably too time consuming for them and too much to rifle through.

At least we are compiling a list of affected owners though, on the "** Official 29.2... ** thread. We are only up to 11 people though...people need to sign up!

I would sign up, but....

I have that loathesome lag, but I don't know if I have 29.2 or what I have. I just know I dont have 300 lb ft of torque even near 1500 RPM.

I've already asked on the thread how you can tell if you have 29.2. My i-drive/ nav screen menu is brown. When I called my dealer to ask what they did to my car 2 weeks ago, My SA told me they updated my software from E89X0703516 to E89X0803530. I have no idea what PROGMAN version that might be. Anybody? Second time I've asked here.

[fidozoom]

I am sorry for a naive question but how do you prove there is lag? Isn't it subjective? And also if you were to show 0-60 time is less couldn't BMW just blame it on throttle response (they never advertised "immediate throttle response" right?).

I am just curious that's all. I want BMW to fix this issue too but don't see how we can prove anything...

Is there any way to show that the engine is not making 300hp at 1500 rpm as claimed?

[karizma]

my 335i isn't in yet , but i stopped by the bmw dealership this morning to check off on some paperwork, while there i test drove both a 135i and a 335i.

neither had any lag. i tried many times, from stop, from 45-50 and up, from 30 and up, from 60 and up, but the car was smooth and responsive as hell each time. each time i floored it the throttle response was quick . i tried in both DS and D mode in the 335i, and the 135i was a stick.

i duno, seemed pretty damn fast to me, no lag.

both were 08's that just came in within the last 10 days, so maybe they fixed the problems on the May/June builds?

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by fidozoom

I am sorry for a naive question but how do you prove there is lag? Isn't it subjective? And also if you were to show 0-60 time is less couldn't BMW just blame it on throttle response (they never advertised "immediate throttle response" right?).

I am just curious that's all. I want BMW to fix this issue too but don't see how we can prove anything...

Is there any way to show that the engine is not making 300hp at 1500 rpm as claimed?

There isn't much subjective to:
Pre 29.2 - slap gas pedal to the floor and you take off
Post 29.2 - slap gas pedal to the floor...wait for it...wait for it....and then you take off.
This is turbo lag, (as has been pointed out for months now) due to wastegate duty cycle changes. Nothing to do with TPS reprogramming.

[karizma]

"Originally Posted by RiXst3r
29.2 was to fix wastegate rattling issues.... wastegates/turbos now have a new part number with a fixed/redesigned actuator rod... maybe cars that come with the new part number for the turbos from the factory don't need the 29.2 open wastegate fix (which causes lag) ?

just speculating..."



the previous was posted by another member in another thread, and i think it makes sense. if the waste gate cycling fix is what 29.2 was about, and the factory changed those parts or "fixed" them on the may/june build 08's, then perhaps the new cars wont have the lag?

in this case could bmw not simply just swap out these parts? guessing it would be expensive though. i'm still lost on this whole 29.2 thing.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by fidozoom

I am sorry for a naive question but how do you prove there is lag? Isn't it subjective? And also if you were to show 0-60 time is less couldn't BMW just blame it on throttle response (they never advertised "immediate throttle response" right?).

I am just curious that's all. I want BMW to fix this issue too but don't see how we can prove anything...

Is there any way to show that the engine is not making 300hp at 1500 rpm as claimed?

It does not make 300hp at 1500rpm, so you cannot show that. But what do you imply in the first place?

BMW will fix this issue. They advertised "no turbo lag". They are - at least in my case - not even trying to claim that there is no problem. They even admitted I was right regarding the 6FL problems that made the v30 upgrade neccessary.

Matter-of-fact, BMW has not yet given permission to downgrade my car from v30 (someone else here has had problems with a downgrade from v29.2). My car is now for the 3rd day in the shop and will stay there at least for the weekend.

Rather than downgrade it, BMW developers are trying to create a new version that does cure the problem. And hopefully, this will fix it for most other people, too.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by meyergru

It does not make 300hp at 1500rpm, so you cannot show that. But what do you imply in the first place?

BMW will fix this issue. They advertised "no turbo lag". They are - at least in my case - not even trying to claim that there is no problem. They even admitted I was right regarding the 6FL problems that made the v30 upgrade neccessary.

Matter-of-fact, BMW has not yet given permission to downgrade my car from v30 (someone else here has had problems with a downgrade from v29.2). My car is now for the 3rd day in the shop and will stay there at least for the weekend.

Rather than downgrade it, BMW developers are trying to create a new version that does cure the problem. And hopefully, this will fix it for most other people, too.

How cool would it be if it's YOUR CAR that they use to actually solve this mess!?

[slubu]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

How cool would it be if it's YOUR CAR that they use to actually solve this mess!?

So are you getting your Dinan tune tomorrow?

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by slubu

So are you getting your Dinan tune tomorrow?

Funny you ask...I'm literally sitting at my desk bouncing back and forth in my head. I DON'T KNOW! ARGH!

Needless to say, my dealer has called me back...oh...ZERO times since they said they would "in a few days" (that was on Tuesday). I would love to have the car resolved before I go ahead with the tune, but, frankly I'm not holding my breath and I'm sick of driving the car with this lag.

I'm also somewhat curious to see how the Shark Edit/Tuner pans out. If it were a pure Jim C. flash (more of a Shark Tune only) I'd probably wait...but I don't feel like waiting until it releases in August then have people screw aroudn with it and make dangerous tunes until months LATER we then have one to reliably use from some reputable tuner. Then again, I know Jim said he is now CONSIDERING making a base tune to have at launch time...so who knows.

So anyway, I think I may make an off-the-cuff decision at the Bimmerworks meet tomorrow. If he's not doing free labor after all, I have zero incentive and I'll wait. If he is and it's crowded and hectic, I'll probably skip it as well. We shall see.

[BDMBimmer]

I dropped my car off for the lag problem and other things. I took my SA out for a ride and he noticed it without me saying a thing.
I just called service and they can't find anything wrong, he seemed sort of mad, but he has the manager going out on a drive to see.
It's not a big deal to me, but knowing about it sort of annoys me.

[fidozoom]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

There isn't much subjective to:
Pre 29.2 - slap gas pedal to the floor and you take off
Post 29.2 - slap gas pedal to the floor...wait for it...wait for it....and then you take off.
This is turbo lag, (as has been pointed out for months now) due to wastegate duty cycle changes. Nothing to do with TPS reprogramming.

I got 29.2 (atleast my SA says so) and I don't see the symptom you describe above. THe only symptom I see is when I am in D mode at around 60mph with rpms between 1500 and 2000, if i am trying to pass someone on the freeway, the car seems to respond slower and then all the power comes in a gush. That's the turbo lag I see... this is what I meant by subjective...

[fidozoom]

Originally Posted by meyergru

It does not make 300hp at 1500rpm, so you cannot show that. But what do you imply in the first place?

What I meant is verifying the 300 lb-ft of torque @1400 - would this stay the same whether there is turbo lag or not? Also the claimed horsepower of 300@ (whatever is official) rpm - would those change if there is turbo lag?

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by fidozoom

What I meant is verifying the 300 lb-ft of torque @1400 - would this stay the same whether there is turbo lag or not? Also the claimed horsepower of 300@ (whatever is official) rpm - would those change if there is turbo lag?

The torque seems to be there, but it comes with a delay, it just builds up slower. The low-RPM power clipping is no static, but a dynamic problem. Thus, you probably would not notice it on a dyno, unless RPMs are being risen very fast.

From what Shiv has posted here:

Another change is that wastegate duty during cruise/low load conditions has been lowered to 15-20% instead of 40-50% as with earlier ECU software versions. This makes the turbos feel a bit less responsive as well as makes the exhaust sound a bit louder/burblier.

I would say that this effect should be limited to low RPMs. Maximum power is made at ~6500 RPM and in that region, there seems to be no power impediment.



However, I felt that my car was somewhat slower at high RPM. Whether this came from high temperatures these days here in Germany or the "throttle closure" that Shiv mentioned when implausible values occur, I cannot say.

Shiv also stated:

I wouldn't be surprised if 29.2 does induce this throttle closure behavior to some degree in a totally stock car. I suspect this is what people are feeling when they say that the new software udpate makes the car feel less responsive. Basically it is is now using throttle closure as a very active way to controlling boost (instead of mainly relying on the wastegate solenoids).

My foreman told me that BMW has problems only on some cars, not all. So, it might be that the new 29.2 protection features are too conservative for some cars (e.g. variations in TMAP sensor sensitivity). This may also be the reason why some people do not have these problems.

[StarrDlux]

WILL fix. lol. maybe they'll fix the idrive and crappy logic7 (worst surround EVAR) too. Promises are one thing but when you are paying monthly for the car thats just useless empty promises.

like saying VISTA will be fast as XP with some service pack someday. bmw probably moving on to the next gen cars/motors already.

[0002s]

The official logo for this issue

[ezatnova]

Very minor update

I wrote my SA since I was supposed to get a call back and never did. He said they have not heard back from BMW yet (God, I feel bad, I should have warned everyone to make sure they were sitting down before reading that shocker!!). He said they are aware of it, and the service manager and lead shop tech are aware of it too, and that when BMW fixes it, they'll contact me.

\

[BzzzBom]

I got a BS answer from BMW NA

[ezatnova]

FYI I did not get the Dinan today...I really want to give this a week or three to pan out first. If Dinan uses BMW code to modify, and updates it each month, I really don't want base code that's crap.

[StarrDlux]

yeah you know this is how it works:
1. buy car -flash it.
2. about 15K miles - bmw flashes it - PA re-flashes it back to dinan.
3. repeat @ 30K
4. return car to stock mode (PA) - turn in lease.

(pray that nothing else breaks in between).

[RBBMWE46M3]

The sound???? Has anyone noticed the sound difference?? The car I test drove and the car I have now sound completely different. The demo'd had a really nice throaty sound and the car I have has a very plain muffled sound. Sorry I've been out of the loop for a week or so, I've been in Hilton Head Island on vacation. I even stopped by the BMW dealer on Hilton Head just to ask if they had any problems and the SM told me that he has had some complaints about lag on the THREE 335's he has delivered in the past month but has no suggestions from BMW yet...

[tyler9595]

Maybe I missed his post....Did nautilian ever find out anything about the fix that his dealership promised him?

Ezatnova - have you heard anything from your dealership yet?

I'm still disappointed every time I drive my car now...I have to keep the rpm's above 3k to get any power...reminds me of driving my 2001 boxster S. I miss my low-end punch!!!!

[slubu]

Originally Posted by tyler9595

Maybe I missed his post....Did nautilian ever find out anything about the fix that his dealership promised him?

Ezatnova - have you heard anything from your dealership yet?

I'm still disappointed every time I drive my car now...I have to keep the rpm's above 3k to get any power...reminds me of driving my 2001 boxster S. I miss my low-end punch!!!!

That's horrible dude, I would keep track of your payments. BMW should compensate you for the diminished car. That is just not right.