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      01-18-2019, 08:33 AM   #1
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Which cooling hoses to replace?

About to order a water pump / thermostat in preparation to replace on my E90.

Which cooling hoses should I order to replace while doing this work?
I know the hose that connects the pump to the thermostat that is "U-shape" should be replaced... but what other hoses should I order?

Tried attaching pictures from RealOEM of their diagram, but their webpage is weird, so below is the link to the page and the diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_3755

Anything else I should order? I believe my expansion tank and cap are perfectly fine.
This is the "Kit" from ECS I am ordering: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...1517586925kt5/
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      01-18-2019, 08:50 AM   #2
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I tend to replace as many hoses as I have access to in situations like this, especially if I'm at a higher overall mileage on the car. It's great preventative maintenance and good peace of mind.
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      01-18-2019, 08:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I tend to replace as many hoses as I have access to in situations like this, especially if I'm at a higher overall mileage on the car. It's great preventative maintenance and good peace of mind.
I agree!
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      01-18-2019, 09:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I tend to replace as many hoses as I have access to in situations like this, especially if I'm at a higher overall mileage on the car. It's great preventative maintenance and good peace of mind.
While I generally agree with that statement...

I am looking for specific hoses and/or part numbers that I should order.
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      01-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #5
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I'd probably inspect and replace #1 (11537521049) and #7 (11537545890). #3 (11537516414) might be a good replacement if access to the opening on the block isnt too bad. #11 and #12 look like they might be easy to replace but no part numbers are available for some reason, they might have been superseded.
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      01-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #6
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I posted a DIY to replace all the cooling hoses for the N52, which should help you decide. I included the schematics and P/N lists and removal and individual installation instructions for each hose.

But, you'll probably find what I found, which is all the hoses will be in good shape. I did my hoses at 8 years and 230,000 miles and I waisted my money and should have waited. But reading about cooling system failures, the hoses most likely to fail are the small one that feeds back from the upper radiator hose to the coolant tank (runs under the intake snout) and the hose that goes from the t-stat to the OFH. That's the hose that the plastic connector crumbles to pieces. The best replacement for that hose is keep the hose and convert the hose connector to the aluminum part available on e-bay.
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      01-19-2019, 08:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I posted a DIY to replace all the cooling hoses for the N52, which should help you decide. I included the schematics and P/N lists and removal and individual installation instructions for each hose.

But, you'll probably find what I found, which is all the hoses will be in good shape. I did my hoses at 8 years and 230,000 miles and I waisted my money and should have waited. But reading about cooling system failures, the hoses most likely to fail are the small one that feeds back from the upper radiator hose to the coolant tank (runs under the intake snout) and the hose that goes from the t-stat to the OFH. That's the hose that the plastic connector crumbles to pieces. The best replacement for that hose is keep the hose and convert the hose connector to the aluminum part available on e-bay.
I actually read one of your posts where you said you replaced all the hoses and it was a waste. I wouldn’t disagree nor do I want to replace all my hoses.... I really only want to replace the hoses that are touched/removed/disconnected when doing the water pump and thermo.

I know the hoses might be ok, but I know the connections can sometimes break due to being brittle. I don’t want to get into a bind and not be able to complete the job and drive my car just because I broke a connection and can’t finish the job. ... also, the hoses might cost me another $50-100 at the very most... I think the u-hose that connects the pump/thermo is only $15-20, well worth the cost of replacement cost.

Did you ever replace your expansion tank or cap?
Anything else you think I should do while fling the water pump/thermo?
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      01-19-2019, 09:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
About to order a water pump / thermostat in preparation to replace on my E90.

Which cooling hoses should I order to replace while doing this work?
I know the hose that connects the pump to the thermostat that is "U-shape" should be replaced... but what other hoses should I order?

Tried attaching pictures from RealOEM of their diagram, but their webpage is weird, so below is the link to the page and the diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_3755

Anything else I should order? I believe my expansion tank and cap are perfectly fine.
This is the "Kit" from ECS I am ordering: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...1517586925kt5/
Replace cooling hoses ?

Don't waste your money.

I've never replaced a single cooling hose except the U shaped hose between the thermostat & the water pump. That's only because of where it's located.

160,000 miles & no leaks
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      01-19-2019, 09:23 PM   #9
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You should do something about the fitting off the front of the head going to the thermostat, either replacing the fitting with any of the metal aftermarket pieces, or with a new oem hose that comes with the fitting. Seen it break on all N5x, non turbo too

Plastic radiator drain plugs tend to break so I would have a whole new plug and sleeve ready. The head of the plug on my 330i broke off just breathing on it
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      01-19-2019, 10:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenup View Post
You should do something about the fitting off the front of the head going to the thermostat, either replacing the fitting with any of the metal aftermarket pieces, or with a new oem hose that comes with the fitting. Seen it break on all N5x, non turbo too

Plastic radiator drain plugs tend to break so I would have a whole new plug and sleeve ready. The head of the plug on my 330i broke off just breathing on it
+1 on the radiator drain plug. Fuck that thing. Why did they make the control sleeve a one-time use item? If your radiator drain plug was stuck or stripped, you used to be able to remove the control sleeve.
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      01-20-2019, 07:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
I actually read one of your posts where you said you replaced all the hoses and it was a waste. I wouldn’t disagree nor do I want to replace all my hoses.... I really only want to replace the hoses that are touched/removed/disconnected when doing the water pump and thermo.

I know the hoses might be ok, but I know the connections can sometimes break due to being brittle. I don’t want to get into a bind and not be able to complete the job and drive my car just because I broke a connection and can’t finish the job. ... also, the hoses might cost me another $50-100 at the very most... I think the u-hose that connects the pump/thermo is only $15-20, well worth the cost of replacement cost.

Did you ever replace your expansion tank or cap?
Anything else you think I should do while fling the water pump/thermo?
So here are my thoughts. First off every car sees a different driving environment that can affect hose life. The rubber hoses per se are not problematic, but the plastic connectors can be. I've not experienced either, but from reading for all these years on E90 post, the small diameter return line from the upper radiator hose and the plastic fitting at the OFH are the two hoses that are failure prone. Replacing the T-stat and water pump involve neither of those hoses/fittings. I think the plastic fitting at the oil filter housing breaks for some people because the OFHG leaks oil on the plastic, which with heat, changes the chemical composition of the plastic and eventually fails. Neither of my N52 have leaked oil in any amount that got on the fitting, so I've not experienced the problem with that fitting. If I was doing any type of cooling system maintenance, I'd definitely replace the plastic fitting with the aluminum one.

It's your car and your perceived level security, and your money, but I have to ask, why are you replacing the t-stat and water pump? The aluminum-bodied t-stat was problematic on the 2006 versions of the N52. Early on, BMW updated the t-stat to a plastic-bodied version, which doesn't have the problems of the original metal t-stat. I replaced my t-stat at 134,000 miles in 2011. 8 years and 230,000 miles later, I've never seen another trouble code for it. My 10-year old 93,000 mile '08 Z4 N52 has never showed a t-stat trouble code. If you've had the typical water pump codes, then you should replace the water pump, but since the t-stat comes out first to replace the WP, you don't necessarily have to replace the t-stat because it doesn't save any labor if the T-stat goes bad later after the new pump goes in. Like the updated t-stat, the updated WP in my car has been trouble free for 8 years and 214,000 miles. I think the updated parts for the t-stat and WP used on N52s after 2007 are better parts that fail less.

I did all the hoses on my car because I really only had concern about the U-shaped hose that runs between the t-stat and pump and only because it sits so close the the exhaust manifold and catalytic converters, but I thought if I was going to replace that hose then why not the rest of them? And I'm keeping the car forever and unlimited miles anyway... In reality I think the hoses are lifetime parts for most people, which is why I think it is a waste of money to preemptively replace them. I kept most of the hoses for emergency spares, and they have been hanging on the walls of my shop for years now. The u-shaped hose, the one I was really concerned about was in great shape too.

There are 4 hoses that attach to the thermostat. Based on my experience none of them would need replacement even though 2 of the 4 have plastic connectors. I found that the plastic connectors with the metal clips do not degrade over time.

I did replace the coolant reservoir cap after my car overheated when the pump died. The coolant reservoir in my car is original, 12+ years and 363,000 miles old. It looks okay to me. I don't go smacking it with a hammer or anything, but it has been through 2 deer hits to the front end. I studied the manufacture of plastic parts as part of my manufacturing engineering curriculum. Plastic parts are difficult to produce and have many variables (heat, pressure, base stock, time, cooling, etc.) involved to making quality parts, which means there is variability to their build quality. A few people lose a coolant reservoir tank, post about it on the internet, and all of a sudden OCD Bimmer owners, the 2% that read car forums on the internet, think they need to replace the tank on some interval basis. 98% of the E9X owners drive around completely and happily unaware of the ticking timebomb the coolant reservoir is...

Good luck with the maintenance.
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      01-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenup View Post
You should do something about the fitting off the front of the head going to the thermostat, either replacing the fitting with any of the metal aftermarket pieces, or with a new oem hose that comes with the fitting. Seen it break on all N5x, non turbo too

Plastic radiator drain plugs tend to break so I would have a whole new plug and sleeve ready. The head of the plug on my 330i broke off just breathing on it
Are these hoses and connections touched/removed/disconnected during a normal water pump/tstat replacement?
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      01-20-2019, 08:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So here are my thoughts. First off every car sees a different driving environment that can affect hose life. The rubber hoses per se are not problematic, but the plastic connectors can be. I've not experienced either, but from reading for all these years on E90 post, the small diameter return line from the upper radiator hose and the plastic fitting at the OFH are the two hoses that are failure prone. Replacing the T-stat and water pump involve neither of those hoses/fittings. I think the plastic fitting at the oil filter housing breaks for some people because the OFHG leaks oil on the plastic, which with heat, changes the chemical composition of the plastic and eventually fails. Neither of my N52 have leaked oil in any amount that got on the fitting, so I've not experienced the problem with that fitting. If I was doing any type of cooling system maintenance, I'd definitely replace the plastic fitting with the aluminum one.

It's your car and your perceived level security, and your money, but I have to ask, why are you replacing the t-stat and water pump? The aluminum-bodied t-stat was problematic on the 2006 versions of the N52. Early on, BMW updated the t-stat to a plastic-bodied version, which doesn't have the problems of the original metal t-stat. I replaced my t-stat at 134,000 miles in 2011. 8 years and 230,000 miles later, I've never seen another trouble code for it. My 10-year old 93,000 mile '08 Z4 N52 has never showed a t-stat trouble code. If you've had the typical water pump codes, then you should replace the water pump, but since the t-stat comes out first to replace the WP, you don't necessarily have to replace the t-stat because it doesn't save any labor if the T-stat goes bad later after the new pump goes in. Like the updated t-stat, the updated WP in my car has been trouble free for 8 years and 214,000 miles. I think the updated parts for the t-stat and WP used on N52s after 2007 are better parts that fail less.

I did all the hoses on my car because I really only had concern about the U-shaped hose that runs between the t-stat and pump and only because it sits so close the the exhaust manifold and catalytic converters, but I thought if I was going to replace that hose then why not the rest of them? And I'm keeping the car forever and unlimited miles anyway... In reality I think the hoses are lifetime parts for most people, which is why I think it is a waste of money to preemptively replace them. I kept most of the hoses for emergency spares, and they have been hanging on the walls of my shop for years now. The u-shaped hose, the one I was really concerned about was in great shape too.

There are 4 hoses that attach to the thermostat. Based on my experience none of them would need replacement even though 2 of the 4 have plastic connectors. I found that the plastic connectors with the metal clips do not degrade over time.

I did replace the coolant reservoir cap after my car overheated when the pump died. The coolant reservoir in my car is original, 12+ years and 363,000 miles old. It looks okay to me. I don't go smacking it with a hammer or anything, but it has been through 2 deer hits to the front end. I studied the manufacture of plastic parts as part of my manufacturing engineering curriculum. Plastic parts are difficult to produce and have many variables (heat, pressure, base stock, time, cooling, etc.) involved to making quality parts, which means there is variability to their build quality. A few people lose a coolant reservoir tank, post about it on the internet, and all of a sudden OCD Bimmer owners, the 2% that read car forums on the internet, think they need to replace the tank on some interval basis. 98% of the E9X owners drive around completely and happily unaware of the ticking timebomb the coolant reservoir is...

Good luck with the maintenance.
I appreciate your feedback.
I’ve had my car since I bought it used with 25k miles and 2.5 years old.
Under CPO around 50k miles my thermo failed open and was replaced under warranty.
I have had not had issues since.
However, we all know our cars can be fine one day and the next the WP dies and leaves us stranded. I really don’t want that to happen to me, and I even have AAA.
My car is now at 107k miles. Drives great and I also plan on my keeping it until the wheels fall off. I want to proactively replace the WP to prevent from being stranded. I know it is probably a waste of money, but would also give me piece of mind. I figure, if doing the pump, why not just do the thermo again too - once again, probably a waste of money. I didn’t realize the thermo comes out first, so maybe I should reconsider the thermo replacement. ... is getting to just the thermo “significantly” easier than the pump? Meaning, if I don’t replace it now, will I deal with the same labor if/when it dies?
I’m not doing this work myself, I’m playing a guy I know who is a certified bmw tech to do it as a side job.... not sure what he would charge me for just the thermo vs. just doing my WP/thermo together now and just being done with it. But, the thermo is like $50-60... not expensive at all, so Buying the thermo now and doing it with the WP would save me money in labor, since I would be doing it all at once. I’d pay more than $60 in labor to just replace the thermo if it failed.

My car was 107k... is a 2008, so 10+ years old. Spent first 2.5 years of its life in hot and sunny Florida before I bought it and had it brought to PA.
I don’t want to just “waste” money, but look at it as, the WP is really the only thing I’m worried about that would leave me stranded on the side of the road. So “wasting” money on the WP is a better ‘investment’ than any other type of maintenance or leaky gaskets. I know you do your own maintenance, so for you it is a little different. The WP job is beyond my skills and I don’t have the proper tools or lift, etc.

... as far as the hoses, I will probably just get the u-shape one that connects WP/thermo... you said you would replace the plastic fitting with a aluminum one, which one would that be? Fitting that connects the WP/thermo or?
...how many wp’s Have you been through? I would think with your long commute that means less hot/cold cycles which MAY help your longevity > just a guess?
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      01-21-2019, 05:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
I appreciate your feedback.
I’ve had my car since I bought it used with 25k miles and 2.5 years old.
Under CPO around 50k miles my thermo failed open and was replaced under warranty.
I have had not had issues since.
However, we all know our cars can be fine one day and the next the WP dies and leaves us stranded. I really don’t want that to happen to me, and I even have AAA.
My car is now at 107k miles. Drives great and I also plan on my keeping it until the wheels fall off. I want to proactively replace the WP to prevent from being stranded. I know it is probably a waste of money, but would also give me piece of mind. I figure, if doing the pump, why not just do the thermo again too - once again, probably a waste of money. I didn’t realize the thermo comes out first, so maybe I should reconsider the thermo replacement. ... is getting to just the thermo “significantly” easier than the pump? Meaning, if I don’t replace it now, will I deal with the same labor if/when it dies?
I’m not doing this work myself, I’m playing a guy I know who is a certified bmw tech to do it as a side job.... not sure what he would charge me for just the thermo vs. just doing my WP/thermo together now and just being done with it. But, the thermo is like $50-60... not expensive at all, so Buying the thermo now and doing it with the WP would save me money in labor, since I would be doing it all at once. I’d pay more than $60 in labor to just replace the thermo if it failed.

My car was 107k... is a 2008, so 10+ years old. Spent first 2.5 years of its life in hot and sunny Florida before I bought it and had it brought to PA.
I don’t want to just “waste” money, but look at it as, the WP is really the only thing I’m worried about that would leave me stranded on the side of the road. So “wasting” money on the WP is a better ‘investment’ than any other type of maintenance or leaky gaskets. I know you do your own maintenance, so for you it is a little different. The WP job is beyond my skills and I don’t have the proper tools or lift, etc.

... as far as the hoses, I will probably just get the u-shape one that connects WP/thermo... you said you would replace the plastic fitting with a aluminum one, which one would that be? Fitting that connects the WP/thermo or?
...how many wp’s Have you been through? I would think with your long commute that means less hot/cold cycles which MAY help your longevity > just a guess?
I've owned my car since new. I ordered it and it was delivered with 3 miles on the odometer.

My original pump died at 149,521 miles. About 10 months before, I had bought a BT scan tool to diagnose the SES light triggered by the t-stat. After I let the t-stat codes play out over Winter, Summer then the next Fall, I replaced the t-stat. A few months after that in May 2011 found the WP trouble codes. No one before May of 2011 had posted anything about trouble codes for the WP, so I guess I was the first to discover them, or at least post on the internet about them. I was getting the 2E81 code for low pump speed. I got several instances of the code; the BT scan tool tags the miles as to when the code is triggered, but I didn't know what it really meant (see below for the code details). I was thinking about replacing the pump, but it was $450 and that was a lot of money on a guess. The pump failed on a 100 deg. F day in July 2011. When I replaced the pump there was just one sorta DIY for it posted by JamesUK, but he didn't discuss why he replaced the pump. When I opened the back of the old pump, the electronics were overheated. The conformal coating that are sprayed on electronics to protect them, was melted and displaced (it boiled off and stuck to the inside of the back-plate. I worked in military electronics manufacturing early in my career, so I was quite familiar with what good electronics look like and fried electronics look like.

So to answer your question (I thought I posted this already) I've replaced the t-stat and pump just one, and both have gone well over 200,000 miles since then; so I'm still on the 1st replacements.

The aluminum fitting is on the hose that goes from the t-stat up to the oil filter housing. There are several threads on the subject.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAMBA-BMW-N...-/263430190311
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      01-21-2019, 12:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I've owned my car since new. I ordered it and it was delivered with 3 miles on the odometer.

My original pump died at 149,521 miles. About 10 months before, I had bought a BT scan tool to diagnose the SES light triggered by the t-stat. After I let the t-stat codes play out over Winter, Summer then the next Fall, I replaced the t-stat. A few months after that in May 2011 found the WP trouble codes. No one before May of 2011 had posted anything about trouble codes for the WP, so I guess I was the first to discover them, or at least post on the internet about them. I was getting the 2E81 code for low pump speed. I got several instances of the code; the BT scan tool tags the miles as to when the code is triggered, but I didn't know what it really meant (see below for the code details). I was thinking about replacing the pump, but it was $450 and that was a lot of money on a guess. The pump failed on a 100 deg. F day in July 2011. When I replaced the pump there was just one sorta DIY for it posted by JamesUK, but he didn't discuss why he replaced the pump. When I opened the back of the old pump, the electronics were overheated. The conformal coating that are sprayed on electronics to protect them, was melted and displaced (it boiled off and stuck to the inside of the back-plate. I worked in military electronics manufacturing early in my career, so I was quite familiar with what good electronics look like and fried electronics look like.

So to answer your question (I thought I posted this already) I've replaced the t-stat and pump just one, and both have gone well over 200,000 miles since then; so I'm still on the 1st replacements.

The aluminum fitting is on the hose that goes from the t-stat up to the oil filter housing. There are several threads on the subject.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAMBA-BMW-N...-/263430190311
Thanks... I've search and this is the same part correct?
Its cheaper and I can get it in 2 days with Prime:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6FCW99W1&psc=1

When I searched a lot of them come up at "335" replacement and not 328... but I would think both are the same fitting regarless if N52 or N54?
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      01-21-2019, 12:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
Thanks... I've search and this is the same part correct?
Its cheaper and I can get it in 2 days with Prime:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6FCW99W1&psc=1

When I searched a lot of them come up at "335" replacement and not 328... but I would think both are the same fitting regarless if N52 or N54?
There is a thread around somewhere that verifies the part fits both the N52 and N54
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      01-21-2019, 12:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There is a thread around somewhere that verifies the part fits both the N52 and N54
Yea, I am doing research on it now and came across this:
https://www.youcanic.com/guide/bmw-e...g-may-fail-fix

Im half tempted to just buy a new hose for $20 and the $20 aluminum connector and replace it all when doing the WP/Tstat since you have to remove this hose connection anyway when doing the Tstat
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      01-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #18
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Based on my experience with a 2008 335i that spent its first 6 or so years in hot Houston, TX and the subsequent 4+ years not too much farther north, with ~100,000 miles at time of hose connector failures/replacements, I would replace the following:

1) As mentioned above the hose with the plastic fitting that connects to the front of the head, had the plastic fitting shear completely in two and dump all of my coolant when I was at work. The hose was still in good shape and the opposite end was a pain to get to, so I replaced the plastic fitting with the aluminum ebay fitting mentioned above.

2) After the above failure, the upper radiator hose was being replaced proactively before failure and the small plastic nipple near the radiator that supplies the vent line to the reservoir broke off while attempting to remove the hose. This was a failure waiting to happen.

3) Upper vent hose that runs from the upper radiator hose to the reservoir has a rigid middle section under the air box supply duct that is clipped in above the radiator. When I attempted to remove this hose, the rigid middle section crumbled at the retaining clips. Another failure just waiting to happen.

4) I also replaced the lower radiator hose proactively due to the aging plastic end fittings, but honestly, that hose and fittings were still in good shape. I suspect it sees much lower temperatures than the previously mentioned hoses because it is on the cooler outlet side of the radiator.
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