[Emilime75]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

It's time for front brakes and...I can't believe I'm actually saying this...I am considering these. Probably the 380mm floating discs and Brembo GT6 style calipers.

For those who've taken the plunge and have some miles on them, what's the verdict?

Originally Posted by Torgus

For the love of god do front and rear. A front only bbk looks really out of place and your brake bias will be significantly off.

I will. But I need fronts really soon and have a budget to contend with. With winter around the corner I won't be driving the car much, if at all, for a few months. I'll do the rears next Feb/March.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

I will. But I need fronts really soon and have a budget to contend with. With winter around the corner I won't be driving the car much, if at all, for a few months. I'll do the rears next Feb/March.

Has anyone even seen an install where the rear bracket worked? All I have seen is the rear bracket not working.

[Spooly]

Originally Posted by houtan

Has anyone even seen an install where the rear bracket worked? All I have seen is the rear bracket not working.

I was told they updated the rear bracket, and that there were no fitment problems now, but I'm not sure I'd take their word for it. One of the reasons I went with the front only kit, didn't seem like it would be worth the hassle. I think the zeroto60 guys are on their third bracket now and I believe it fits well. They mentioned they would make another video about it, but they've been busy swapping an engine. Hopefully they post another update soon.

[Emilime75]

Wow, just lost all respect for the ZeroTo60/YouTube guys. Basically I've been talking to someone through AliExpress about the brakes, they claim to be the same vendor who provided ZeroTo60 theirs...shot them a message with some details of the communications I've had with Ali to verify they are the same. Their response? They don't want to tell me unless I become a $25/month member. What a crock of shit.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

Wow, just lost all respect for the ZeroTo60/YouTube guys. Basically I've been talking to someone through AliExpress about the brakes, they claim to be the same vendor who provided ZeroTo60 theirs...shot them a message with some details of the communications I've had with Ali to verify they are the same. Their response? They don't want to tell me unless I become a $25/month member. What a crock of shit.

Don’t they put a link to the product in the description below the video?

[Emilime75]

They don't. They do everything else, but not the brakes.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

Wow, just lost all respect for the ZeroTo60/YouTube guys. Basically I've been talking to someone through AliExpress about the brakes, they claim to be the same vendor who provided ZeroTo60 theirs...shot them a message with some details of the communications I've had with Ali to verify they are the same. Their response? They don't want to tell me unless I become a $25/month member. What a crock of shit.

Who wants $25 a month? ZeroTo60?

[Spooly]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

Wow, just lost all respect for the ZeroTo60/YouTube guys. Basically I've been talking to someone through AliExpress about the brakes, they claim to be the same vendor who provided ZeroTo60 theirs...shot them a message with some details of the communications I've had with Ali to verify they are the same. Their response? They don't want to tell me unless I become a $25/month member. What a crock of shit.

I'm 99% sure the seller zeroto60 purchased from was Guangzhou Wantian Industrial Co., Ltd. aka SaiQu Racing aka KokoRacing. Same as me. Not sure if this company is actually the same as Dickass (Dickase) but from what I've seen they probably are (if not the two companies work closely together). From my experiences, I believe the calipers might actually be legit, but who knows. The pads I received are dickase brand, the rotors are unmarked, as well as the brackets and brake lines.
Zeroto60 mentioned that they don't want to link the product because they don't want to be involved if something isn't right, but then they also shouldn't be disclosing it to members. Asking you to become a member first is definitely bullshit.

[Vulcan50]

Idk, I have mixed emotions on the subject. Those memberships and YouTube dollars sound like that's how they make money for the projects/your entertainment. Would you go into a pizza place and ask for their recipes? Or buy some car audio online form some cheap location and then call crutchfield tech support and expect them to help?

We are so used to getting things for free and not paying what it's worth. Are you really going to spend $800-1500 (depending on getting rear) and are fretting over $25?

As much as one of us would help friends out working on their cars, if a stranger came to and said "will you swap my turbos for free?" Would you?

[Emilime75]

I get your point, it's the principle of it that I have an issue with, here's how I look at it.
1. Those guys are no BMW gurus, so there is no value to me for subscribing and paying for their "knowledge"...with the exception of who they actually bought 1 item from.
2. They use other people's YouTube videos and comments on their own videos to help them fix their cars. Are they making donations to those commenters, or joining other channels paid memberships for that info?
3. They claim this is a "hobby" for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, the definition of hobby is something you do, but don't expect monetary gain from.
4. They publicly state in the videos that they don't want to say where they got the brakes because of safety and liability concerns, but then turn around and say they will tell if you pay.
5. As for supplemental income so they can buy more stuff and make more videos...fine, I guess. This is the world we live in and people will pay for the dumbest shit on social media. But, don't go on video saying you're doing this for the "community" like you actually care, and then turn it around when you ask a question. It isn't like I didn't do any of the leg work in finding this stuff out on my own, I just asked for a little extra info on top of what I had already found.
6. No, I don't expect things for free. But, I'm not asking for proprietary information, or anything that would take any effort in answering. They claim to not have time to reply to every comment and inquiry, which is why they offer their meberships, so those people can have a "direct line of communication with them for their assistance", yet they had the time to write 2 replies trying to sell their shit.

Anyway, it's no biggie. I'll figure it out on my own, but they can go suck it, as far as I'm concerned.

[thormessiah]

Originally Posted by Torgus

You have to bleed the brakes when you replace the calipers...I mean I guess you could clamp the stock rubber lines but that is dumb as it compromises the integrity of the line. You also get new stainless lines I assume with all of these knock off chinese brake kits.

So yes, you need to bleed the brakes. For both safety reasons and necessity. It is not like you want to rely on old brake fluid anyways. Brake flushes are cheap as fuck all things considered.

The arc rims are so great because you can fit a 17 inch rim on a stoptech/brembro BBK. So you have sidewall and a lightweight wheel which you want both of to track or drive aggressively.

I'm about to put my set on this week. Do you feel any improvement in braking? & would you swap to the m3 master cylinder if you could?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by thormessiah

I'm about to put my set on this week. Do you feel any improvement in braking?

Barely. Any improvement I felt in braking on the street when I installed my legit Stoptech BBK came from the SS lines and fresh fluid in my opinion.

The reason you get a BBK is for thermals and you can run more types of pads, quicker pad changes, etc. If designed correctly it will work with your stock MC. There is no need to do the M3 MC upgrade which is a bit of a PITA anyways.

Originally Posted by thormessiah

& would you swap to the m3 master cylinder if you could?

No.

e9x M3 calipers has bigger pistons than the e9x n54 thus the M3 master cylinder has bigger bore:

"If you keep the caliper piston area the same or smaller than oem, the brake pedal travel won't increase at all. Lots of people make the mistake of not checking this before upgrading. You can get 6 piston calipers that are smaller than OEM and four piston calipers that are actually bigger. It depends on the caliper design, and you "just" have to pick the right size for your car.

For 35is/EU 35i the front area is 2x2552mm2 and rear is 2x1386 per side. And while disc diameter impacts brake torque and heat capacity, it won't significantly change how long you need to press the brake pedal to move the pistons. Of much greater importance here is the friction coefficient of the brake pads. And running square 380mm rotors won't necessary be right for brake bias either.

An easy way to get brakes that bite harder is to simply install pads with higher friction coefficient. OEM is on the low side. EBC yellows are somewhere in the middle in terms of bite. OK but nothing special. Semi-metallic brake pads with high friction coefficient and aggressive bite can be quite addicting and fun to drive, but also come with lots of dust, wear etc.

I think most people underrate the importance of brake pads, while overrating the importance of calipers and stuff like brake lines."

The 'problem' with these no name BBK kits, other than safety and your life your passengers etc, is piston size. How do they compare to stock? If you don't know this you can't make any predictions on how your ABS will function etc. "This is the reason that when you order a STOPTECH BBK upgrade kit the new caliper bores may actually be smaller than the units you are replacing to "balance the equation." This is just one way in which our engineers attempt to retain the original system's P-T and P-V integrity.

The "secret" to brake system compatibility is that there is no secret - it just requires fundamental engineering expertise and design know-how.

As mentioned earlier, far too many of the big brake upgrade kits on the market today pay no attention to the P-T or P-V characteristics that the car originally possessed. In fact, there are kits available today which have P-T characteristics which more than double the output (P==>2T) of the stock systems they replace - "200% More Stopping Power" must be better than stock, right?

In most cases, these vendors procure large quantities of big rotors and red calipers, fabricate an adapter bracket to mount them to a variety of different suspensions, and market the kit as a 'one-size-fits-all' without first determining if the system will be compatible with the remaining foundation braking system, let alone the electronic chassis controls. Sure, it's quick, cost-effective, and looks like a million bucks through your 18" wheels, but what about performance?"




Some reading:

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakeped...t-fundamentals

http://info.3dmmotorsport.com/mk60-m...andalone-guide



Basically you fancy new knock off BBK could make your car stop worse and throw ABS off so it stops worse as well.

[Aus335iguy]

Really interesting and that all makes sense. What about swept pad area and the leverage effect of larger rotors?

[thormessiah]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Barely. Any improvement I felt in braking on the street when I installed my legit Stoptech BBK came from the SS lines and fresh fluid in my opinion.

The reason you get a BBK is for thermals and you can run more types of pads, quicker pad changes, etc. If designed correctly it will work with your stock MC. There is no need to do the M3 MC upgrade which is a bit of a PITA anyways.




No.

e9x M3 calipers has bigger pistons than the e9x n54 thus the M3 master cylinder has bigger bore:

"If you keep the caliper piston area the same or smaller than oem, the brake pedal travel won't increase at all. Lots of people make the mistake of not checking this before upgrading. You can get 6 piston calipers that are smaller than OEM and four piston calipers that are actually bigger. It depends on the caliper design, and you "just" have to pick the right size for your car.

For 35is/EU 35i the front area is 2x2552mm2 and rear is 2x1386 per side. And while disc diameter impacts brake torque and heat capacity, it won't significantly change how long you need to press the brake pedal to move the pistons. Of much greater importance here is the friction coefficient of the brake pads. And running square 380mm rotors won't necessary be right for brake bias either.

An easy way to get brakes that bite harder is to simply install pads with higher friction coefficient. OEM is on the low side. EBC yellows are somewhere in the middle in terms of bite. OK but nothing special. Semi-metallic brake pads with high friction coefficient and aggressive bite can be quite addicting and fun to drive, but also come with lots of dust, wear etc.

I think most people underrate the importance of brake pads, while overrating the importance of calipers and stuff like brake lines."

The 'problem' with these no name BBK kits, other than safety and your life your passengers etc, is piston size. How do they compare to stock? If you don't know this you can't make any predictions on how your ABS will function etc. "This is the reason that when you order a STOPTECH BBK upgrade kit the new caliper bores may actually be smaller than the units you are replacing to "balance the equation." This is just one way in which our engineers attempt to retain the original system's P-T and P-V integrity.

The "secret" to brake system compatibility is that there is no secret - it just requires fundamental engineering expertise and design know-how.

As mentioned earlier, far too many of the big brake upgrade kits on the market today pay no attention to the P-T or P-V characteristics that the car originally possessed. In fact, there are kits available today which have P-T characteristics which more than double the output (P==>2T) of the stock systems they replace - "200% More Stopping Power" must be better than stock, right?

In most cases, these vendors procure large quantities of big rotors and red calipers, fabricate an adapter bracket to mount them to a variety of different suspensions, and market the kit as a 'one-size-fits-all' without first determining if the system will be compatible with the remaining foundation braking system, let alone the electronic chassis controls. Sure, it's quick, cost-effective, and looks like a million bucks through your 18" wheels, but what about performance?"




Some reading:

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakeped...t-fundamentals

http://info.3dmmotorsport.com/mk60-m...andalone-guide



Basically you fancy new knock off BBK could make your car stop worse and throw ABS off so it stops worse as well.

So I have to pick out a set for the rear and I’ve heard good things about the oem m3 rear rotors. However for the same price I can get a whole set of Stoptech rotors, pads and lines. Which would be better overall?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Aus335iguy

Really interesting and that all makes sense. What about swept pad area and the leverage effect of larger rotors?

The 'job' of the caliper and pads is to transform the car's kinetic energy into thermal energy through friction. The job of the rotor is to store and dissipate the thermal energy otherwise known as heat. Friction is a direct function of swept area of the pad, that pad acts at the center of pressure of the rotor. This dictates the maximum available leverage(how I understand it). If the pad locked the rotor, the stopping power would then be limited to the amount of friction from the tire. That being said, the tire is actually the most important part of your braking system, not the actual brake assembly. Any braking unit on a car can overpower the tires' friction and lock them. The fastest way to shorter stopping distances is quality tires. Your stock calipers with decent pads can lock your tires.

BBKs are not about 'more stopping force' they are built to handle the increased thermals when racing your car. The larger rotor? It's a heat sink. Internal vanes to help cool it down. While the caliper looks 2x as big as stock and is all shiny and red the pad is basically the same size as stock. If the BBK is designed for the car the piston's area in the caliper will be basically identical to stock.

My Stoptech BBK has is you can do pad changes without taking off the caliper:

You can always buy some Ksport 8 piston calipers.

Bigger caliper does not mean better stopping:


More pistons does not mean better stopping:

[Aus335iguy]

I think what I was getting at was that a larger frictional force could be created by a larger swept area. Likely that would mean greater amount of friction per Nm of force applied to the pedal(less braking effort)
Also by locating that friction at the end of a long lever (larger diameter disc) then that would also magnify the braking effect

I agree that the bigger the disc the better thermal dissipation etc

[thormessiah]

Finally on, everything fit great and was pretty straightforward

[IllSic_Design]

This was posted on sp00lstr33t, and I thought of this thread. Take it with a grain of salt;

"A good friend of mine as worked for Brembo during 8 years he was in charge to control quality build in China.
Brembo brakes are now made in China and Dickass was one of the manufacturer. What some call knock off are in fact produced on the same assembly line."

[integlspwr]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

This was posted on sp00lstr33t, and I thought of this thread. Take it with a grain of salt;

"A good friend of mine as worked for Brembo during 8 years he was in charge to control quality build in China.
Brembo brakes are now made in China and Dickass was one of the manufacturer. What some call knock off are in fact produced on the same assembly line."

Mhmm thats very interesting..

ANyone know what caliper style is the AP ?

[langsbr]

Originally Posted by integlspwr

Mhmm thats very interesting..

ANyone know what caliper style is the AP ?

They offer both the Radi-CAL style and the 9040 series. The Radi-Cal needs a 380MM rotor and 19" wheels, so I went with the 9040s and 355MM rotors.

[KOKO RACING]

Hi Everybody, we are professional to upgrade BMW e92/e92 M3. If you want to upgrade your brake system contact me @caliper_koko instgram

[mantis]

very interested in possibilities