[itsbrokeagain]

all these pics make me eager for next season. Some new tires and pads should really bring my car to life out there! And a brake flush too would help LOL.

My friends run with the PCA crew sometimes..depending on the club who has the event that day, it can either be a really good time, or a total drag...

[HP Autosport]

I may have caught some air off the curbing here! Too bad the E30 M3 blocked the camera's view!

[HP Autosport]

I believe the orange Mustang behind me was one of the faster ones. At least he didn't spin or hold us up!

[HP Autosport]

And a not so exciting photo!

[sg335]

HP Autowerks - Body roll is not such a bad thing. Do you prefer the extra movement or would prefer to have less with sways? The TCK's did great at Calspeedway and seemed to keep the tires on the ground. Whatever body roll I had did not bother me. Don't have any photos though to compare to yours.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by sg335

HP Autowerks - Body roll is not such a bad thing. Do you prefer the extra movement or would prefer to have less with sways? The TCK's did great at Calspeedway and seemed to keep the tires on the ground. Whatever body roll I had did not bother me. Don't have any photos though to compare to yours.

Didn't really have problems with keeping the tires on the ground, but reducing body roll(less camber change) could give me a bit more lateral bite at both ends of the vehicle from less camber change by chassis roll.

Are you also running the TCK CO's? What front/rear spring rates are you running?

Harold

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Hi Daniel,

I am not running any sway bars on our project 335i. Look at the body roll!

Yikes! Sway bars, baby, sway bars! Look at your inside front! You have almost no contact patch! Get the H&R bars... and be happy.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by sg335

HP Autowerks - Body roll is not such a bad thing. Do you prefer the extra movement or would prefer to have less with sways? The TCK's did great at Calspeedway and seemed to keep the tires on the ground. Whatever body roll I had did not bother me. Don't have any photos though to compare to yours.

Ohhhh... I gotta disagree. They are easily the single most critical suspension upgrade you can make! The most important performance feature on the car is contact patch... it all starts there. And the right sway bar setup maximizes the contact patch. Look "beyond" the body roll in HP's pics and you'll see... he loses contact patch. He really needs to get a set of racing bars on his car.

-Daniel

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I believe the orange Mustang behind me was one of the faster ones. At least he didn't spin or hold us up!

Au contrare...that guy in the orange Saleen was the bane of my existence that day! He held me up lap after lap after lap. He flat refused to give me a point-by despite the fact that I was significantly faster than him everywhere on the track. Once he finally ceded and pointed my by, his first point was on the left, then he pulled his arm in and immediately pointed right over the roof. By the time he realized his mistake, we were already in the braking zone and there was no way I trusted him enough to complete the pass. As my instructor said...if you are in "B" and can't figure-out which side to point by, perhaps you don't belong in "B." That dude never once hit an apex or was in the right place on the track. But I do agree that it was nice that he never spun...

FourPoint...I see from your (amazing) pictures that you were running near that M5. My instructor said that he was having some issues. Did you notice anything?

I started my pressures at 34/38 cold and eventually dropped 2 from the fronts.

My car did run warm at times but never went into limp home or significantly reduced power. I know the computer starts reducing power at 280. When I was chasing that Carrera and the heat was creeping up, I did notice that I had increasing trouble staying with him on the straight sections. Part of that was due to poor exit speeds because the RFT's were so greasy. Part of that was also that I was getting tired and not driving well. But also maybe part was the computer cutting back power.

For the next event I plan to switch to Red Line 10W-40 and see what happens. I was really happy with the combination of Turbo Tuner and 100 Octane. In actuality it was 1/4 tank of 91 and 3/4 of 100. The car ran real, real strong.

As for next events, I really like Driving Concepts schools. They are small and seem to be well run. While I am not a big fan of WSIR, I just think the DC schools are safer. Perhaps I will go...After all, I did spend all that money on track insurance! Might as well use it.

[sg335]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Didn't really have problems with keeping the tires on the ground, but reducing body roll(less camber change) could give me a bit more lateral bite at both ends of the vehicle from less camber change by chassis roll.

Are you also running the TCK CO's? What front/rear spring rates are you running?

Harold

TCK DA coilovers with 500lb front and rear springs. Are you running these? What were your compression and rebound settings?

[sg335]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Ohhhh... I gotta disagree. They are easily the single most critical suspension upgrade you can make! The most important performance feature on the car is contact patch... it all starts there. And the right sway bar setup maximizes the contact patch. Look "beyond" the body roll in HP's pics and you'll see... he loses contact patch. He really needs to get a set of racing bars on his car.

-Daniel

Two schools of thought on this. Soft springs and dampers with large bars, or stiff springs and dampers with smaller bars. And it does hurt that I can get 3.5 degrees negative camber in the front. Many times bars can hurt a car through some transitions and lift a wheel. When this happens in the rear, you have no power to the ground, especially when you have an open diff. Too early to tell if I need sways just yet. Not opposed to them, but sometimes not always necessary. I don't need the larger rear bar to help dial out understeer because my suspension does that for me. I would first try the new motorsport bar which is a few mm thicker. H&R has had problems with some of their sway kit bushing tearing apart. I went through three on another car because I believe the bar was just too thick and put too much stress on the stock housing.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by sg335

Two schools of thought on this. Soft springs and dampers with large bars, or stiff springs and dampers with smaller bars. And it does hurt that I can get 3.5 degrees negative camber in the front. Many times bars can hurt a car through some transitions and lift a wheel. When this happens in the rear, you have no power to the ground, especially when you have an open diff. Too early to tell if I need sways just yet. Not opposed to them, but sometimes not always necessary. I don't need the larger rear bar to help dial out understeer because my suspension does that for me. I would first try the new motorsport bar which is a few mm thicker. H&R has had problems with some of their sway kit bushing tearing apart. I went through three on another car because I believe the bar was just too thick and put too much stress on the stock housing.

I am with the first school of thought at the moment with fairly stiff springs and damper, but without sway-bars.

I was running about 2 degrees of negative camber up front, could use a bit more that is for sure.

You are totally correct on using too much sway bar. Lifting the rear inside tire would hurt the 335i coming out of a turn with an open diff.

What we may do is step up the spring rate a bit or use a slightly larger front bar only.

Would you point me to the right directiong on the Motorsport sway-bar?

Harold

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I am with the first school of thought at the moment with fairly stiff springs and damper, but without sway-bars.

I was running about 2 degrees of negative camber up front, could use a bit more that is for sure.

You are totally correct on using too much sway bar. Lifting the rear inside tire would hurt the 335i coming out of a turn with an open diff.

What we may do is step up the spring rate a bit or use a slightly larger front bar only.

Would you point me to the right directiong on the Motorsport sway-bar?

Harold

I followed your car through a number of corners (in fact one of my videos shows me behind you). Your car looked fine. I saw nothing amiss...Body lean was minimal and it appeared to be very neutral.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by White05X3

I followed your car through a number of corners (in fact one of my videos shows me behind you). Your car looked fine. I saw nothing amiss...Body lean was minimal and it appeared to be very neutral.

It would be great if you could post that video on youtube. I would love to have a look at it.

Thanks.

Harold

[S4to335]

I got video from Sears Point...but its in the wrong format...its on tape..gotta convert it...I am following Lindsay's Audi..and that Mazdaspeed 626 touring car...nice footage for the few seconds they were around.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I got video from Sears Point...but its in the wrong format...its on tape..gotta convert it...I am following Lindsay's Audi..and that Mazdaspeed 626 touring car...nice footage for the few seconds they were around.

Would be great to see that as well. Have always seen Pat's car from the pits, but not on the track.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

It would be great if you could post that video on youtube. I would love to have a look at it.

Thanks.

Harold

Ask and you shall receive...

Sorry for the low resolution...I was afraid youtube would reject it if the file was too much larger.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by bartman32

You know I was starting to ask a lot of questions about tire pressure this time and I have a plan for the next time at the track. I filled to 35 cold this time. Last time it was 30. This time it got up to 45 hot which I think is probably too much. Next time I'm planning on letting it bleed out to 40 hot throughout the day.

I have a MT and no overheating problems. Funny you say it loses punch around 100. That was actually the exact opposite of what I experienced. Seemed like around 100 it suddenly got a second wind! It was actually a little intimidating when you are doing 100MPH around an oval and suddenly there is an extra burst of power. No Procede, all stock!

I know the fronts just get beat to $hiite on these car with all the understeer, and the RFTs are too expensive to be chewing threw like Doublemint. Sounds like the guys who know what they're doing can't really optimize the pressures that well to minimize understeer without running customized suspension setups with more negative camber up front. Maybe it feels different in the Auto vs the Manual around 100mph? I just remember bouncing in my seat like I was riding a horse trying to get my car to goooooo! Dammit Porsche Twin Turbos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leftcoastman]

I have the rear sway only and I will tell you, you spin like hell coming out of tight corners. The balance is quite nice now and I am, if anything, a bit tail happy.

I am thinking of putting a thicker front sway on to get some traction out back, but 0.5 mm greater than stock isn't something to get excited about.

[sg335]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

It would be great if you could post that video on youtube. I would love to have a look at it.

Thanks.

Harold

The video looks like normal body lean but the angles are not perfect to determine this. Harold, what are your current spring rates? What previous suspension were you running and how do you compare the two?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by sg335

The video looks like normal body lean but the angles are not perfect to determine this. Harold, what are your current spring rates? What previous suspension were you running and how do you compare the two?

Have a look at post #45 with a still photo.

The video does not show much roll, but the photo does.

400/500 at the moment, up from 400/375. Not looking to degrade the ride quality, thus looking into sway bars for roll control.

Sway bars front and rear would reduce body roll, give me less body roll induced camber change and give me a better contact patch.

[sg335]

If it is the picture in this thread, is it possible that your right side tires were on the bump strip and therefore the excessive body lean to the left? I would be interested in your observations after the bar install. I personally think 400lb fronts are too soft for track work in a six inch length and lowered ride height, but understand your desire for comfort and sways can accomplish your goal to a certain extent. I just dont feel that the H&R front sway will do much over stock, but if I were buying, I would buy the set of front and rear.