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      04-08-2013, 08:46 PM   #1
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Stoptech cryo rotors, stoptech perf pads - not advised in winter (salty roads)

I purchased the following - last January - so about a year and a few months old.

Stoptech Cryo rotors
Stoptech Street performance pads
Stoptech stainless steel lines.

This was a package Sport Kit
http://stoptech.com/products/sport-kits

STOCK rotors are softer, and STOCK pads are more abrasive (which cause more dust).

ISSUE: My stoptech rotors are not true, I have vibration on stopping now that is getting worse. (I have not tracked the car).

I put in a support call to Stoptech yesterday, they requested pictures, I sent the pictures posted here. The good news is their tech guy called me right away - like 5 min after I emailed the pictures. So excellent support response.

Here is what the tech said:
1) The black spots are not the issue.
2) The LINES on the rotors and the "pad images" on the rotors are the issue.
3) These lines and images of the pads on the rotor are caused by salt spray in the winter, and then the pad sitting on the rotor. This is causing a deposit.
4) BECAUSE I purchased the street sport pads, these are less abrasive than stock, hence these pads (unilike stock pads) will NOT scrub off the deposit and clean the lines/images of the pads. - This is what is causing the problem.

The tech said that if I was in California where it doesn't rain much, and there is no salt sprayed on the roads, I could have driven on these rotors and pads for 5 years and would not have had the problem.

BECAUSE I live and drive in Ontario, Canada, this combination of stoptech products was not recommended for my environment.

I should have used their Posi Quiet® Semi-Metallic Brake Pads (prefix 104) with the slotted rotors apparently. These are more abrasive and would scrub off the deposits off the rotor more easily.

I am still exploring with Stoptech if they will help me out with replacing anything. It is not under warranty which is crappy. They said because the rotor is cast iron, they don't warranty against that due to the enviornment.

My point is the STOCK rotors and STOCK pads I had on for 4 years worked great (and had much better cold bite).

I would recommend anybody looking to upgrade their brakes with Stoptech products call their tech support guys to ask what products they should actually use.

I would also recommend Stoptech put some disclaimers or warnings on their sport packages that these are not for all climates, I did a lot of homework on these products and I am now disappointed I have to spend more money to go back to stock. Not happy.
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      04-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #2
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I put StopTech rotors on my Acura TL when I had it with Racing brake pads. Was not impressed with them at all. The rotors weren't the best. Actually were very hard. I had HPS on stock rotors and they were great.
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      04-09-2013, 12:35 AM   #3
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Thanks for letting us know. And yes, there is salt on the roads in the California Sierras, so no bueno for me OE still seems hard to beat for a street driven car.
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      04-09-2013, 12:40 AM   #4
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Why not do a bed-in to try to scrub off the deposits?
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      04-09-2013, 01:52 AM   #5
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I ran stoptech cryo rotors for years on my E34, although I was not using stoptech pads. No problems, ever. When the car got totaled the rotors looked almost new (and had about 30000 miles over 3 years)

MN resident here, so salt starts in october, goes to april
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      04-09-2013, 02:20 AM   #6
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http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c1=6

That should take care of your problem, plus stock pads.
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      04-09-2013, 07:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
1) The black spots are not the issue.
2) The LINES on the rotors and the "pad images" on the rotors are the issue.
3) These lines and images of the pads on the rotor are caused by salt spray in the winter, and then the pad sitting on the rotor. This is causing a deposit.
4) BECAUSE I purchased the street sport pads, these are less abrasive than stock, hence these pads (unilike stock pads) will NOT scrub off the deposit and clean the lines/images of the pads. - This is what is causing the problem.

Maybe I missed it. Did they recommend a fix?

Me being me, I'd take some emery paper to them puppies 'n' clean 'em up.

Result: Sa-mooth! No need to remove rotors for that.

Torque correctly w/real torque wrench, not a stick or anything other than.
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      04-09-2013, 07:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by index1489 View Post
http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c1=6

That should take care of your problem, plus stock pads.

LIKE that! $44 for medium hone....have you done that w/rotors on the car?
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      04-09-2013, 12:50 PM   #9
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You don't want to use silica based emery paper. It leaves deposits that can't be removed. Actually I think that sand is more a problem than salt, for the very reason that it is high in silica.

You can try a hooning head on a drill, and change to a different set of pads. That sould work, the rotors are not really damaged, they are just surface contaminated.

Make sure to do the bedding in procedure properly.


Also make sure the hubs are clean and your wheel balanced. If they are not, both can promote uneven pad deposit.
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      04-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #10
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This really worries me...

I was about to order the stoptech street performance pads after MUCH research...

I was going to go with Centric Premium rotors though, and not slooted (or drilled) ...

... I am worried about these pads now and how they react with winter weather, being than I am in the Northeast with much salt/snow over the winter months...

... do you have any more info on this? .... the pads they did recommend that were the semi-metallic, any feedback and on how the compare to other pads out there?


...I am about to jsut give in a take it to the damn dealer i want to do this myself and save some $$, but am worried about salt/harsh winters and this setup....
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      04-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
This really worries me...

I was about to order the stoptech street performance pads after MUCH research...

I was going to go with Centric Premium rotors though, and not slooted (or drilled) ...

... I am worried about these pads now and how they react with winter weather, being than I am in the Northeast with much salt/snow over the winter months...

... do you have any more info on this? .... the pads they did recommend that were the semi-metallic, any feedback and on how the compare to other pads out there?


...I am about to jsut give in a take it to the damn dealer i want to do this myself and save some $$, but am worried about salt/harsh winters and this setup....
You should be worried, and I did a TON of research too. Their website said diddly squat about ANY restrictions/cautions about winter. They said it was a direct replacement - which I read to mean - use anytime anywhere, but just way harder.

The tech, who was very good, said he would have recommended the rotors, but a STOCK 100 pad - which is Stoptech's like for like replacement of the BMW stock pad. He said it is dusty, but would be abrasive enough to scrub the deposits off the rotors.

He recommended I try:
1) Put stock pads or Stoptech 100s on now and drive the shit out of the car and brake hard to scrub that off.
2) if that doesn't work in a few weeks/tanks - then turn the slotted rotors and that will fix it.

I'll do that in this order and report back.

I did ask Stoptech sales to replace my pads with the 100s - I hope they do that in good faith (not in warranty) because their website that I used to purchase this stuff as a KIT certainly didn't have ANY warnings or caveats as to their products use.

If you are planning to buy Stoptech, call their tech department BEFORE you buy for the proper advice.
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      04-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #12
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good to hear that their techs are actually knowledgable. Just sucks the product description wasnt more forthcoming from the get-go. I'm happy to see that there wouldnt be issues with a non-salt environment. This is the exact setup that i want to get once my brakes are ready to be replaced in a year or so. Thankfully FL never sees salt, so i should be good to go. Thanks for the info on the salt-free environments!
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      04-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Neothin87 View Post
good to hear that their techs are actually knowledgable. Just sucks the product description wasnt more forthcoming from the get-go. I'm happy to see that there wouldnt be issues with a non-salt environment. This is the exact setup that i want to get once my brakes are ready to be replaced in a year or so. Thankfully FL never sees salt, so i should be good to go. Thanks for the info on the salt-free environments!
No prob, I wish I had it before I bought.... I would still call their tech guys before you buy - the guys name was Pat - just a wealth of knowledge on their products and many other racing products too.
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      04-10-2013, 12:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
You should be worried, and I did a TON of research too. Their website said diddly squat about ANY restrictions/cautions about winter. They said it was a direct replacement - which I read to mean - use anytime anywhere, but just way harder.

The tech, who was very good, said he would have recommended the rotors, but a STOCK 100 pad - which is Stoptech's like for like replacement of the BMW stock pad. He said it is dusty, but would be abrasive enough to scrub the deposits off the rotors.

He recommended I try:
1) Put stock pads or Stoptech 100s on now and drive the shit out of the car and brake hard to scrub that off.
2) if that doesn't work in a few weeks/tanks - then turn the slotted rotors and that will fix it.

I'll do that in this order and report back.

I did ask Stoptech sales to replace my pads with the 100s - I hope they do that in good faith (not in warranty) because their website that I used to purchase this stuff as a KIT certainly didn't have ANY warnings or caveats as to their products use.

If you are planning to buy Stoptech, call their tech department BEFORE you buy for the proper advice.

If you did it all over again what pads and rotors would you go with?

Certainly others in winter environments have some input on this setup?

....what about the other pads out there hps, ebc, cool carbon ... They must have the same type of issues!
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      04-10-2013, 05:01 PM   #15
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Maybe it has something to do with the Cyro rotors? Those are supposed to be "harder" and longer lasting, so maybe that is the issue?

That the Cyro rotors are too hard compared to OEM rotors? I think the centric aka stoptech aka R1 rotors are more comparable to OEM "hardness".
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      04-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
Maybe it has something to do with the Cyro rotors? Those are supposed to be "harder" and longer lasting, so maybe that is the issue?

That the Cyro rotors are too hard compared to OEM rotors? I think the centric aka stoptech aka R1 rotors are more comparable to OEM "hardness".
Apparently not, the pads in salty/winter conditions need an abrasive pad like stock (which is why the dust so much, and why they have so much cold bite). The cold bite is not as good on these street performance pads by the way.

What would I do if I had to do it all over again you asked.

1) I would review why I needed upgraded brakes to begin with. IF you are not tracking, and I haven't done that YET (I am planning on it), then there is no reason to go with the upgraded brakes.

I upgraded rotor, lines, pads and fluid. If I am trundling along the highway and have a few hard stops, well the stock setup worked pretty well.

I think I would have done:
1) stainless lines
2) Z4is rotors (cvc 22349a recommended these) - bit better than the 335i ones and fit, and BMW quality
3) stock pads
4) maybe Motul 600 fluid for potential track.
5) IF I track, throw in track pads for the day maybe - this is a big IF.

I had to replace my brakes because of wear, but I didn't factor in that these were not suited to my weather condition, and frankly I am pissed off with Stoptech for not having ANY warnings about this on their "KIT". That is misleading in my mind.
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      04-11-2013, 02:52 AM   #17
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I am still calling BS on their excuse for pad abrasiveness....

stock pads are not very abrasive, dustyness is not abrasiveness
rotor wear a pad causes is linked to abrasiveness

I have never heard of a 'wont get the salt off' reason for any pad, with any rotor, on any car, ever. If the stoptech pad was unable to get salt residue off the rotor, it would be unable to stop the car.
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      04-11-2013, 12:59 PM   #18
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I emailed Stoptech regarding this and this is their response:

"We do not consider salt exposure by itself to be an issue with our Street Performance pads. What can cause an issue is not using the pads in a performance manner where they are regularly exposed to elevated temperatures which allow them to maintain an even pad transfer layer. I believe the only reason salt would be considered part on the issue is that it is typically quite difficult to drive in a manner that will bring the pads to their preferred temperature range when the weather is such that salt needs to be put down to prevent the roads from icing over.

It should be noted that our pads are considered performance pads and should be driven in a performance manner to achieve optimal performance. If performance driving will not be regularly engaged in, including activities like autocross, aggressive back roads and light duty track days, then other pads should be chosen that are better suited to more typical driving conditions like our PosiQuiet or OE Formula pads described on our website here:

http://www.centricparts.com/products/brake-friction

Let us know if you have any questions."


So it looks like the OP may just not be driving his car hard enough over the winter months... or maybe did not bed the pads in properly? either way, I think I am going to go with centric (R1) rotors and the stoptech street performance pads....

The link they provided is very useful...
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      04-11-2013, 02:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
I emailed Stoptech regarding this and this is their response:

"We do not consider salt exposure by itself to be an issue with our Street Performance pads. What can cause an issue is not using the pads in a performance manner where they are regularly exposed to elevated temperatures which allow them to maintain an even pad transfer layer. I believe the only reason salt would be considered part on the issue is that it is typically quite difficult to drive in a manner that will bring the pads to their preferred temperature range when the weather is such that salt needs to be put down to prevent the roads from icing over.

It should be noted that our pads are considered performance pads and should be driven in a performance manner to achieve optimal performance. If performance driving will not be regularly engaged in, including activities like autocross, aggressive back roads and light duty track days, then other pads should be chosen that are better suited to more typical driving conditions like our PosiQuiet or OE Formula pads described on our website here:

http://www.centricparts.com/products/brake-friction

Let us know if you have any questions."


So it looks like the OP may just not be driving his car hard enough over the winter months... or maybe did not bed the pads in properly? either way, I think I am going to go with centric (R1) rotors and the stoptech street performance pads....

The link they provided is very useful...
Right. That is exactly what sales told me. Here is what I am asking of sales:

http://stoptech.com/products/sport-kits

To Stoptech: "My question is simply, due to the fact that there is NO warnings or caveats on your product descriptions for the Sport Kit as it relates to winter salting as described by your technician, I would like to request that Stoptech cover new "100" pads all round front and back to see if this will resolve the problem as Pat suggests.

I will have costs to get them installed, costs to turn the rotors if this doesn't solve the issue, and costs to replace all the StopTech products with BMW stock products if this doesn't work.

If I had had any inkling of warning when I researched your products on your web site that the performance sport kit was not recommended for winter driving and casual track use, I could see that Stoptech would have no responsiblility of this issue. There is no mention of this combination having to be driven very hard all the time to keep deposits down during daily driving in between track use. These are called STREET Performance. My streets are in Toronto Ontario and they get salty.

Please advise if Stoptech will cover the replacement pads for all 4 wheels.

I am not a happy customer."
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      04-11-2013, 09:53 PM   #20
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... if this info was readily available to you when you bought the pads and they label it is a different issue.. i do feel your pain though. I am going with OEM pads. You can't have good bite without some dust... and i like the way BMW brakes feel and will deal with the wheel dust.

Here is another good response from stoptech i think people should read as well:

If you drive aggressively on a regular basis, you should not have an issue maintaining the pad transfer layer, for most however, the daily commute may not allow for the pads to be brought to their preferred temperatures often enough to maintain the bed-in. I personally daily drive with Street Performance pads in my 2000 Civic beater on 60 mile round trip commute and have never had a vibration issue, but I am an aggressive driver and don’t have to deal with weather below 40 degrees more than a few days a year.

When choosing our OE formula pads, there will not be an option of compounds. While we use different materials, they are matched to what was provided from the factory and in the case of BMW pads, that would be the Low Metallic pads you referenced. Our Street Performance pads would have similar bite levels, but the OE formula may have a quicker ramp up in friction while the street Performance pads would have a more linear feel. This linear friction curve is often times mis-reported as having less performance, but for more aggressive use, this is preferred as it provides more control and better modulation. Street Performance pads would also have much maximum operating temperatures which allow them to be used on track without exhibiting fade or excessive wear rates at high temperatures.
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      04-11-2013, 10:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer View Post
... if this info was readily available to you when you bought the pads and they label it is a different issue.. i do feel your pain though. I am going with OEM pads. You can't have good bite without some dust... and i like the way BMW brakes feel and will deal with the wheel dust.

Here is another good response from stoptech i think people should read as well:

If you drive aggressively on a regular basis, you should not have an issue maintaining the pad transfer layer, for most however, the daily commute may not allow for the pads to be brought to their preferred temperatures often enough to maintain the bed-in. I personally daily drive with Street Performance pads in my 2000 Civic beater on 60 mile round trip commute and have never had a vibration issue, but I am an aggressive driver and don’t have to deal with weather below 40 degrees more than a few days a year.

When choosing our OE formula pads, there will not be an option of compounds. While we use different materials, they are matched to what was provided from the factory and in the case of BMW pads, that would be the Low Metallic pads you referenced. Our Street Performance pads would have similar bite levels, but the OE formula may have a quicker ramp up in friction while the street Performance pads would have a more linear feel. This linear friction curve is often times mis-reported as having less performance, but for more aggressive use, this is preferred as it provides more control and better modulation. Street Performance pads would also have much maximum operating temperatures which allow them to be used on track without exhibiting fade or excessive wear rates at high temperatures.
Exactly. There are zero warnings/recommendations/driving recommendations and zero warnings that salt may exacerbate the issue of salt deposits without the pads getting up to temperature to scrub off the crap.
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      04-14-2013, 04:54 PM   #22
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Thanks for the review, I need to upgrade my brakes soon and let's say in quebec it gets pretty "salty" during winter haha.
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