JB4 + Backend Flash vs. MHD Only

Johnny Boost · 10-27-2016, 05:05 PM

I want to start a discussion for those of us that already have JB4s. I am curious if it would be better to run the MHD as standalone or stack JB4 + backend flash. My understanding is that the stack is the best of both worlds but would like to hear everyone's opinion.

Turbod · 10-27-2016, 06:20 PM

For your mods I would run flash only. I am having issues with the BEF right now and will have to do some more troubleshooting this evening. Do you run E mixtures or just pump gas?

Nipplebro · 10-27-2016, 06:48 PM

I just got my jb4 I plan on stacking them I am running some e85

Johnny Boost · 10-27-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbod

For your mods I would run flash only. I am having issues with the BEF right now and will have to do some more troubleshooting this evening. Do you run E mixtures or just pump gas?

I usually run 40-50% e85.

JB4N · 10-27-2016, 09:27 PM

Would also like to know the benefits of stacking the JB4 with the backend flash. I would be using it for 93 octane on a FBO car, so it would be the pump flash.

Peen · 10-27-2016, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB4N

Would also like to know the benefits of stacking the JB4 with the backend flash. I would be using it for 93 octane on a FBO car, so it would be the pump flash.

Read this...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43151

I am not selling my JB4. Terry is very helpful and the BEF are free. He has always helped get things dialed in for you.

Also, especially helpful to have JB4 for Meth, PI, bigger turbo's, JB4 bluetooth module, gauges, extra safetys.

I expect the highest consistently power N55's will be running MHD BEF+ JB4 ISO.

JB4N · 10-27-2016, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peen

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB4N

Would also like to know the benefits of stacking the JB4 with the backend flash. I would be using it for 93 octane on a FBO car, so it would be the pump flash.

Read this...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43151

I am not selling my JB4. Terry is very helpful and the BEF are free. He has always helped get things dialed in for you.

Also, especially helpful to have JB4 for Meth, PI, bigger turbo's, JB4 bluetooth module, gauges, extra safetys.

I expect the highest consistently power N55's will be running MHD BEF+ JB4 ISO.

Thanks for the link and info!

n55e90 · 10-27-2016, 09:37 PM

Im planning on keeping my jb4 also. Since i run meth and e50 i hope i can add some timing and actually take advantage it.

Johnny Boost · 10-27-2016, 11:00 PM

Terry was saying that the next ISO update will allow JB4 users to completely disable the JB4. This will be good for the people that want to try the MHD by itself. I will probably try every set up to see which one is the best.

EB89 · 10-28-2016, 03:22 AM

Personally ditched my JB4 and find MHD stage 1+ to be vastly better in every way. I'm only FBO and ran JB4 map 2.

Happy with no piggy back in the engine bay

JLGM4 · 10-28-2016, 10:09 AM

As I understand it, you need to change maps on MHD to go from your 93 map to E85 map correct? With JB4+MHD stack, would there be a way to toggle between a 93 map and e85 map more easily through the JB4 interface? I'm just confused as I've read the jb4 needs to be disabled for MHD to work.

Johnny Boost · 10-28-2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

As I understand it, you need to change maps on MHD to go from your 93 map to E85 map correct? With JB4+MHD stack, would there be a way to toggle between a 93 map and e85 map more easily through the JB4 interface? I'm just confused as I've read the jb4 needs to be disabled for MHD to work.

The BMS pump BEF is supposed to be used with 91/93 octane and up to 40% e85. So depending how much e85 you run, you may not need to change anything.

Turbod · 10-28-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

As I understand it, you need to change maps on MHD to go from your 93 map to E85 map correct? With JB4+MHD stack, would there be a way to toggle between a 93 map and e85 map more easily through the JB4 interface? I'm just confused as I've read the jb4 needs to be disabled for MHD to work.

It depends on the amount of E you run. Fuel scalers need to be adjusted if you are running higher amounts of E. It takes 4 minutes to flash from map to map so if you change you mixture just wait 4 minutes. The benefit you will see running their E30 flash or a custom flash is the tune will take advantage of the higher octane by raising boost and or timing. This is true for the JB4 also. If you are running higher amounts of E you should be running their E BEF to adjust fueling.

MHD Tuning · 10-28-2016, 03:08 PM

If you change only the boost target you are not seeing all the benefits of an e85 mix on a pump flash. This is why we have acn91, 91, 93 and 95 octane variants of the stg1 and stg2 maps, and an e30 map.

Imoo, the bottom line is MHD+JB4 has more features, MHD OTS is more pleasant to drive.

CantCatchMe · 10-28-2016, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB89

Personally ditched my JB4 and find MHD stage 1+ to be vastly better in every way. I'm only FBO and ran JB4 map 2.

Happy with no piggy back in the engine bay

+1

stari335 · 10-28-2016, 06:42 PM

How high in boost can you guys go with MHD? Is it limited like the N54?

Turbod · 10-28-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stari335

How high in boost can you guys go with MHD? Is it limited like the N54?

They have 3.5 bar tmap support so I think that's 36psi. Obviously you would be looking at a custom tune at that point.

Turbod · 10-28-2016, 07:04 PM

In case anyone is wondering the timing targets for the pump BEF are 4 in the mid-range and 8 up top. It's a pretty big drop from the 10-13 I am used to. The throttle response is crisp and boost happy.

Johnny Boost · 10-28-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbod

In case anyone is wondering the timing targets for the pump BEF are 4 in the mid-range and 8 up top. It's a pretty big drop from the 10-13 I am used to. The throttle response is crisp and boost happy.

Were you able to get the issues worked out with the BEF? If so, what turned out to be the problem?

MHD Tuning · 10-28-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stari335

How high in boost can you guys go with MHD? Is it limited like the N54?

There is no longer a limit to boost on n54 MHD flash only. With a 4 bar sensor you can tune up to 40psi. MOTIV controls ST kits flash only.

Turbod · 10-28-2016, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Boost

Were you able to get the issues worked out with the BEF? If so, what turned out to be the problem?

Well the issues I ran into were...

Timing appeared to crash when it didn't before the pump flash.
It turns out that is the timing curve Terry set. Their old pump flash was different.

Methanol indicated that it was always on at half flow.
I think something must have happened during the flash. I flashed again and it is working just fine.

The transmission would indicate it was in first gear but would really be in second or third gear.
Both times I flashed the car and as soon as it was finished I started it up and drove it. It seems that if you have the Alpina flash you need to let the DME go to sleep before you drive.

The car died four times in a row when cold starting.
I was on the MHD "Stock" flash with the JB4 connected. I assume there was some interference since the flash is not designed to work with the JB4.

It seems none of the BEFs will work for my setup. Since I am not running E I shouldn't load the flashes that will adjust the fuel tables and the pump flash targets too low of timing. I think a good alternative would be to offer a race flash with higher timing targets.

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maxihari · 10-29-2016, 08:45 AM

I have Jb4 and am planning to add MHD. So that means stack it.

Though, I'm not sure how this works - can someone please explain it:

Let's say I flash MHD stage 2 (means I own stage 0 and stage 1 - along with variations)

So now, what map do I put Jb4 in? (assuming I download BEF map from MBS)
Which takes precedence?

10-27-2016, 05:05 PM	#1
Johnny Boost Colonel 324 Rep 2,014 Posts Drives: '21 M850i GC Join Date: May 2013 Location: TBD iTrader: (0)	JB4 + Backend Flash vs. MHD Only I want to start a discussion for those of us that already have JB4s. I am curious if it would be better to run the MHD as standalone or stack JB4 + backend flash. My understanding is that the stack is the best of both worlds but would like to hear everyone's opinion. __________________ WedgePerformance E40 MHD \| Performance Exhaust Mod \| BMS DP \| Vibrant 1790 \| BMS Intake \| VRSF CP \| xHP Stage 3 Michelin PSS \| M3 Control Arms LUX v4 LEDs \| Shadowline Grills \| Lip Spoiler
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10-27-2016, 06:20 PM	#2
Turbod Major 396 Rep 1,210 Posts Drives: 2014 E84 X1 35i M Sport Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	For your mods I would run flash only. I am having issues with the BEF right now and will have to do some more troubleshooting this evening. Do you run E mixtures or just pump gas? __________________ 2011 E92 335i \| 11.7@125 SOLD 2017 Camaro SS \| 12.7@114 SOLD 2019 Audi TT RS \| 10.5@130 SOLD 2020 F97 X3M \| 11.0@123 2023 G80 M3 xDrive
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10-27-2016, 06:48 PM	#3
Nipplebro Private First Class 35 Rep 152 Posts Drives: 2012 335 m sport n55 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: El paso iTrader: (0)	I just got my jb4 I plan on stacking them I am running some e85
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10-27-2016, 09:27 PM	#5
JB4N Second Lieutenant 79 Rep 258 Posts Drives: 2011 335i M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: TN iTrader: (0)	Would also like to know the benefits of stacking the JB4 with the backend flash. I would be using it for 93 octane on a FBO car, so it would be the pump flash.
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10-27-2016, 09:37 PM	#8
n55e90 In it to win it 12 Rep 111 Posts Drives: 2011 e90 335i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	Im planning on keeping my jb4 also. Since i run meth and e50 i hope i can add some timing and actually take advantage it.
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10-27-2016, 11:00 PM	#9
Johnny Boost Colonel 324 Rep 2,014 Posts Drives: '21 M850i GC Join Date: May 2013 Location: TBD iTrader: (0)	Terry was saying that the next ISO update will allow JB4 users to completely disable the JB4. This will be good for the people that want to try the MHD by itself. I will probably try every set up to see which one is the best. __________________ WedgePerformance E40 MHD \| Performance Exhaust Mod \| BMS DP \| Vibrant 1790 \| BMS Intake \| VRSF CP \| xHP Stage 3 Michelin PSS \| M3 Control Arms LUX v4 LEDs \| Shadowline Grills \| Lip Spoiler
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10-28-2016, 03:22 AM	#10
EB89 Brigadier General 541 Rep 3,131 Posts Drives: 2011 335i e92 DCT Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Australia, NSW iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 335i e92 [0.00]	Personally ditched my JB4 and find MHD stage 1+ to be vastly better in every way. I'm only FBO and ran JB4 map 2. Happy with no piggy back in the engine bay
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10-28-2016, 10:09 AM	#11
JLGM4 First Lieutenant 57 Rep 399 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: San Antonio TX iTrader: (0)	As I understand it, you need to change maps on MHD to go from your 93 map to E85 map correct? With JB4+MHD stack, would there be a way to toggle between a 93 map and e85 map more easily through the JB4 interface? I'm just confused as I've read the jb4 needs to be disabled for MHD to work.
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10-28-2016, 03:08 PM	#14
MHD Tuning Banned 1978 Rep 345 Posts Drives: M3F80#M5F90#340iF31#SupraA90 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	If you change only the boost target you are not seeing all the benefits of an e85 mix on a pump flash. This is why we have acn91, 91, 93 and 95 octane variants of the stg1 and stg2 maps, and an e30 map. Imoo, the bottom line is MHD+JB4 has more features, MHD OTS is more pleasant to drive.
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10-28-2016, 06:42 PM	#16
stari335 Private 13 Rep 87 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Malton iTrader: (0)	How high in boost can you guys go with MHD? Is it limited like the N54?
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10-28-2016, 07:04 PM	#18
Turbod Major 396 Rep 1,210 Posts Drives: 2014 E84 X1 35i M Sport Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	In case anyone is wondering the timing targets for the pump BEF are 4 in the mid-range and 8 up top. It's a pretty big drop from the 10-13 I am used to. The throttle response is crisp and boost happy. __________________ 2011 E92 335i \| 11.7@125 SOLD 2017 Camaro SS \| 12.7@114 SOLD 2019 Audi TT RS \| 10.5@130 SOLD 2020 F97 X3M \| 11.0@123 2023 G80 M3 xDrive
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10-29-2016, 08:45 AM	#22
maxihari Second Lieutenant 46 Rep 265 Posts Drives: 2011 335i MSport 6spd Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	I have Jb4 and am planning to add MHD. So that means stack it. Though, I'm not sure how this works - can someone please explain it: Let's say I flash MHD stage 2 (means I own stage 0 and stage 1 - along with variations) So now, what map do I put Jb4 in? (assuming I download BEF map from MBS) Which takes precedence?
	Appreciate 0 Quote