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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > MHD vs JB4



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      05-06-2019, 11:32 PM   #1
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MHD vs JB4

Is it worth it going the cheaper route and getting a MHD flash instead of a plug n play jb4? Ive heard pros and cons of MHD and I just want some extra info on it. Ive always wanted to play around with the burble tune even though tbh the car doesn't deserve it. I have a VRSF intercoolor 7', VRSF CL DP, and chargepipe. Stage 2+ sounds fun for the car but I know for a fact that jb4 will give me some more power. Someone want to direct me a route to go for the car?
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      05-06-2019, 11:48 PM   #2
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I've wanted to know this myself.
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      05-06-2019, 11:52 PM   #3
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from the looks of it, MHD went your way
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      05-07-2019, 01:32 AM   #4
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Both went his way I think he runs a jb4 with a MHD back end flash which is what I will do soon best of both worlds (I prefer jb4 tho If I had to choose only one)
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      05-07-2019, 01:53 AM   #5
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MHD is the logical way to go. Flash tuning>Piggyback tuning. I had more power when I was running the JB4 hence the higher trap speed. MHD was more consistant and smoother. I put the JB4 on my X1 because I didn't want to bench flash my DME quite yet. I honestly hate the JB4 but I don't love MHD either. I will say when running MHD it feels like the car came from the factory with more power and with the JB4 it can sometimes feel more violent but I think part of that is the inconsistency. If you plan to run the JB4 you really should have a BEF since the JB4 has really limited control.
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      05-09-2019, 12:04 AM   #6
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Both have their pros and cons, best would be to run both together
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      05-28-2019, 10:38 AM   #7
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Ideally you'd want both. JB4 has some great features MHD doens't have and flash tuning does some things not possible JB4 only. If you get the JB4 they give you free MHD flash maps so you save on having to buy maps and custom tuning too.
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      05-29-2019, 07:51 AM   #8
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JB4 has more features for the N55 IMO. MHD is good also , tough..
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      06-11-2019, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Both have their pros and cons, best would be to run both together
I've been running JB4 for years.
When I first installed it, always ran map 1. Then I went to map 2 after the DP install. These both required only pump gas I thought (no more than 10% ethanol).

Now I typically run map 5. Sometimes with 93 octane and sometimes with a mix of Ethanol. How do I know which MHD BEF I can run. Can I run the PUMP flash and still use map 5 with ethanol or gas? or is the pump flash only for 93 octane and the e85 flash is only for ethanol mixes? Is there any guidance for which BEF to run with which JB4 map?
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      06-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle6986 View Post
I've been running JB4 for years.
When I first installed it, always ran map 1. Then I went to map 2 after the DP install. These both required only pump gas I thought (no more than 10% ethanol).

Now I typically run map 5. Sometimes with 93 octane and sometimes with a mix of Ethanol. How do I know which MHD BEF I can run. Can I run the PUMP flash and still use map 5 with ethanol or gas? or is the pump flash only for 93 octane and the e85 flash is only for ethanol mixes? Is there any guidance for which BEF to run with which JB4 map?
I had these same question but now I know, anyways you can run the pump bef for mhd it can use up to 30-40% e85 mix (PUMP: Suggested for most applications ranging from 91/93 octane up to E85 mixtures of around 40%.) , once you do a bef you would use map 2 since it is a high boost map
With the BEF, Map 1 is ~16 PSI (normally 13), Map 2 is ~19 PSI (normally 14). I found Map 5 to be very similar to Map 2 (running ~E35), but Map 2 is more consistent. The BEF also adjusts fueling, timing, VANOS, etc. Shoutout to lucasmiller2015 for that response when I had the question

You can check more stuff out here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43151
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      06-11-2019, 08:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinWake View Post
I had these same question but now I know, anyways you can run the pump bef for mhd it can use up to 30-40% e85 mix (PUMP: Suggested for most applications ranging from 91/93 octane up to E85 mixtures of around 40%.) , once you do a bef you would use map 2 since it is a high boost map
With the BEF, Map 1 is ~16 PSI (normally 13), Map 2 is ~19 PSI (normally 14). I found Map 5 to be very similar to Map 2 (running ~E35), but Map 2 is more consistent. The BEF also adjusts fueling, timing, VANOS, etc. Shoutout to lucasmiller2015 for that response when I had the question

You can check more stuff out here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43151
Thanks for the info. So map 2 without the BEF can’t handle e85, but it can with the BEF?

Last edited by beetle6986; 06-11-2019 at 08:56 PM..
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      06-11-2019, 08:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle6986 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinWake View Post
I had these same question but now I know, anyways you can run the pump bef for mhd it can use up to 30-40% e85 mix (PUMP: Suggested for most applications ranging from 91/93 octane up to E85 mixtures of around 40%.) , once you do a bef you would use map 2 since it is a high boost map
With the BEF, Map 1 is ~16 PSI (normally 13), Map 2 is ~19 PSI (normally 14). I found Map 5 to be very similar to Map 2 (running ~E35), but Map 2 is more consistent. The BEF also adjusts fueling, timing, VANOS, etc. Shoutout to lucasmiller2015 for that response when I had the question

You can check more stuff out here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43151
Thanks for the info. So map 2 without the BEF can’t handle e85, but it can with the BEF?
Map 2 can absolutely handle E85, just with the lower peak boost target.
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      06-12-2019, 07:25 AM   #13
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JB4+MHD. For a stock turbo N55 car, it was a monster and a ton of fun. You get all the flash options of MHD and you can fiddle with your JB4 to adjust for throttle response, boost by gear, custom boost MAP, add methanol later.

All of the BMS BEF are free and open source so if you decide you want to tweak the flash you can.
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      06-12-2019, 04:17 PM   #14
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The JB4 maps do not specify or limit the amount of ethanol you can run. The JB4 only has very minor control over your trims so without the BEF you're not able to change the fuel tables. You should be able to run E30 without issues. Post a log in their support section and wait two weeks for a response. Someone will let you know if you need to decrease the ethanol content.
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      06-12-2019, 09:43 PM   #15
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As someone who had JB4 only, JB4+BEF, and MHD only, I see no benefit to JB4, at all. What so ever. There are no "safeties" and the JB4 will target whatever the hell it wants to for AFR and blow your motor. I ran JB4+bef with a custom backend flash/map 6 before I sold my car only to run throttle body injection so I could use full e85. Running OTS e30 map was smoother, ran WAY better, and wouldn't have timing drops like the JB4 did.

MHD flash only is the only way to move forward with this platform unless you're using a big single turbo running an external wastegate and need an external boost controller. Anyone telling you otherwise is either stuck in the past back to when MHD didn't exist or a vendor trying to sell products.

Another thing, you have a 2000$ Bosch ecu which controls thousands of parameters and has the best safeties possible, you want to overwrite that with a $500 piggyback with a Chinese processor working at nearly 1/4th the speed that only changes boost and manipulates the fuel system into changing fuel pressure?
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      07-13-2020, 04:41 AM   #16
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Jb4 to Mhd

Just bought a N54 335xi that already has jb4 tune on it I'm just getting into the N54 community was wondering would I be able to plug in mhd and tune it like that even if jb4 is already on , or would I have to back end flash ?
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      07-13-2020, 12:37 PM   #17
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Taking JB4 out of my car felt similar to when Peter Parker pulled Venom off. I am in awe of how smooth MHD Stage 2+ is on my car. When an OTS map drives better than stock there is no going back to primitive piggy back tech. Maybe I've just had a piss poor experience with JB4, but that's my 2¢
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      07-13-2020, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Maybe I've just had a piss poor experience with JB4, but that's my 2¢
Everyone that has/had a JB4 has the same experience, myself included (I've had mine on my car for almost 5 years now). Some of us are just slow-learners lol.
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      07-13-2020, 04:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92only View Post
Maybe I've just had a piss poor experience with JB4, but that's my 2¢
Everyone that has/had a JB4 has the same experience, myself included (I've had mine on my car for almost 5 years now). Some of us are just slow-learners lol.
I definitely learned after replacing my engine block
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      07-13-2020, 05:43 PM   #20
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I ran the JB4 for 4 years in my 335i and about 1 1/2 years on my X1. It is nice to have a tune option before the DME is cracked but once it has been cracked then flash only should be the only option.
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      07-13-2020, 06:19 PM   #21
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Fair point, Turbod. I did run it in 2015 when there wasn't another option. When I recently went back to FBO, I initially started with JB4 back end mhd flash. Then MHD alone. The lather is a much better experience as you know already.
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      07-13-2020, 09:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92only View Post
Fair point, Turbod. I did run it in 2015 when there wasn't another option. When I recently went back to FBO, I initially started with JB4 back end mhd flash. Then MHD alone. The lather is a much better experience as you know already.
Where can I find this lather

Cobb was an option on the 2011 back then, but it wasn't a very good one. If anyone is looking for a JB4 I have mine for sale
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