[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by JunkStory

Yes, but not everyone gets the same salary raise as you. Some people still get the same hourly rate, while many others are just lucky to even have a job in today's world.

Well maybe they should not have a BMW, and that is the truth. Not everyone needs a premium car. MOST people with steady jobs receive at least inflationary raises hence the reason for inflation.

If you do not have a job than you should not be buying a car, the same way I feel about people who bought houses they could not afford.

BMW is not a car for everyone. And no I am not a stuck up snob, just that everyone can not have everything though many try to play like they can.

[E90330iS]

Originally Posted by JunkStory

John's logic makes perfect sense. I don't understand what's so difficult to grasp. Looks to me like BMWNA is rather successful in tricking you all with its numbers.

In summary:
The 2009 335i's price increased by $3380 compared to 2007. Even with 0.9% financing, you save ~$3050. So you are still paying ~$330 more compared to 2007, which can be assumed to be a cause of inflation, so we can ignore that. Therefore, there is no bargain at all even with 0.9% financing.

Yes and no, I can see how you see it being the same. However, things usually get more expensive over time with inflation. Although you are paying about the same given 5.5% 2 years ago with a lower MSRP and 0.9% now with a higher MSRP, right now the 0.9% is still a great deal. Because when the economy climbs back in 2 years, the MSRP will go up even more, and the financing rate will be back at around 5.5%. And your argument would totally be defeated.

[jaxxx]

seriously the OP's logic , has to be one of the dumbest way of thinking I've heard. you cant compare todays market to what it was 2 years ago.

[ruxp]

Originally Posted by JunkStory

John's logic makes perfect sense. I don't understand what's so difficult to grasp. Looks to me like BMWNA is rather successful in tricking you all with its numbers.

In summary:
The 2009 335i's price increased by $3380 compared to 2007. Even with 0.9% financing, you save ~$3050. So you are still paying ~$330 more compared to 2007, which can be assumed to be a cause of inflation, so we can ignore that. Therefore, there is no bargain at all even with 0.9% financing.

Great point. What's even worse is that in 1988, BMW was selling the M3 for $30k. Now, a new M3 coupe runs TWICE that.

Even with the 0.9% financing now being offered on the '08 //M cars vs 5% on the 1988 cars, many people fail to realize they're still paying considerably more for the '08 M cars.

I totally see your point now. BMW NA has tricked us all! It's a horrible ripoff, and I won't stand for it!

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ruxp

Great point. What's even worse is that in 1988, BMW was selling the M3 for $30k. Now, a new M3 coupe runs TWICE that.

Even with the 0.9% financing now being offered on the '08 //M cars vs 5% on the 1988 cars, many people fail to realize they're still paying considerably more for the '08 M cars.

I totally see your point now. BMW NA has tricked us all! It's a horrible ripoff, and I won't stand for it!

What's very good in BMW's favor is that typically the consumer expects more for less over time, especially on products that are relatively unchanged. With a BMW, they seem to be quite satisfied with less, for more. Logic 7 was standard in 2k7. The 2k9 costs more base, and Logic 7 is a $875 option.

How many people in this thread seem to believe that 3380 more for the same two model years later is perfectly fine, it's somehow explained by inflation? Is it also explained by their wage increases? It wouldn't be acceptable on a Camry or Accord, but hey, this is BMW!

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by John 070

How many people in this thread seem to believe that 3380 more for the same two model years later is perfectly fine, it's somehow explained by inflation? Is it also explained by their wage increases?

What about changing world-wide legal, emissions regulations, homologation, development, software, training/dealer support and research costs for a new/updated model that are directly linked to the present state of inflation/world economics ? You have to put in development cycles and the costs for that (surprisingly !) don't stay constant. Think the tooth fairy pays for those, so you can get the car for the same price as before ?

As a simple cube of metal, compared with a previous cube of metal you may be correct in saying it has increased more than you expect, but as a new/updated car model you are over simplifying things.

D.

[ragingclue]

Although it's an interesting thread, I'm afraid it's much more complicated than that. Interesting observation, but moot just the same.

[Spool]

Originally Posted by ruxp

Great point. What's even worse is that in 1988, BMW was selling the M3 for $30k. Now, a new M3 coupe runs TWICE that.
Even with the 0.9% financing now being offered on the '08 //M cars vs 5% on the 1988 cars, many people fail to realize they're still paying considerably more for the '08 M cars.

I totally see your point now. BMW NA has tricked us all! It's a horrible ripoff, and I won't stand for it!

are you serious? If today's M3 had that little horsepower and technology as it did back then, i'd agree with you.


but seriously, it's like ur comparing a Fighter Jet today to crop dusting planes back then...

[radix]

Originally Posted by Spool

but seriously, it's like ur comparing a Fighter Jet today to crop dusting planes back then...

Actually, it's like he's comparing a fighter today with the fighters of old. m3 vs. m3 is an apples to apples/time comparison.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by anmcguire

Actually, it's like he's comparing a fighter today with the fighters of old. m3 vs. m3 is an apples to apples/time comparison.

Hardly. You're saying conditions of the world market have no bearing on the value of specialized goods?

P51 during WWII vs JSF of today... Hardly apples to apples. Check out the number of production and the military state of the world. Tell me the value of 1 P51 should be equal to one JSF. Simply no.

[ruxp]

Originally Posted by Spool

are you serious? If today's M3 had that little horsepower and technology as it did back then, i'd agree with you.


but seriously, it's like ur comparing a Fighter Jet today to crop dusting planes back then...

No.. I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic. :P

I've noticed that the "John 070" seems to make a lot of nonsensical posts about finance/money.

[F2006]

AFAIK the issue with 0.9% financing (and also with zero % financing, when available) is that the dealership will make you choose: either the subsidized financing or a discount. Often it is better to negotiate a good discount and get a loan elsewhere.

[radix]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Hardly. You're saying conditions of the world market have no bearing on the value of specialized goods?

I never said that. In fact, I'm saying quite the opposite, that the market takes those conditions into consideration.

Originally Posted by ragingclue

P51 during WWII vs JSF of today... Hardly apples to apples. Check out the number of production and the military state of the world. Tell me the value of 1 P51 should be equal to one JSF. Simply no.

I never said it was an apples to apples comparison. I said it was an apples to apples/time comparison. Whereas comparing a JSF to a WW2 era crop duster would be an apples to oranges/time comparison. The original price for the 1986 M3 was around ~$35k, adjusted for inflation that would be ~$70k dollars now. Sources:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...rticleId=66153

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

So it looks like a pretty spot-on comparison to me. It costs the same amount of buying power to buy an M3 now as it did in 1986.

[Seminole]

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by John 070

What's very good in BMW's favor is that typically the consumer expects more for less over time, especially on products that are relatively unchanged. With a BMW, they seem to be quite satisfied with less, for more. Logic 7 was standard in 2k7. The 2k9 costs more base, and Logic 7 is a $875 option.

How many people in this thread seem to believe that 3380 more for the same two model years later is perfectly fine, it's somehow explained by inflation? Is it also explained by their wage increases? It wouldn't be acceptable on a Camry or Accord, but hey, this is BMW!

Do me a favor John. Go attend a college finance class then come talk to us.

First off car prices increase every year. Every single manufacturer does this. FYI, the Accord went from $30,260 for the EX-L V6 w/ Navi to $30,755. The base Camry went from $18,570 to $19,145. Seems to me like Toyota and Honda get away with it as well. Lets not forget that the E90 has had a significant facelift, that costs money.

As far as comparing financing rates as a way of hiding the increase in cost... HA! Any finance major would laugh in your face. All a finance rate is, is the rate at which you can borrow the money.

The cost of building cars has gone up tremendously. All the commodities (steel, rubber, etc.) have gone up anywhere from 50%-200% for certain things. Transportation costs have gone through the roof with the increase in gas. Lets not forget how much the Dollar fell in the last few years against the Euro either. Every USD BMW got was worth less and less as time went on.

If anything we are paying LESS today for the car. Lets consider how much the buying power of the USD has dropped over those three years. True, it may look like more money, but in reality your money decreased in value a lot less than the price increased.

God your reasoning is dumb.

[Spool]

^^^Kinda harsh but yeah, and i don't know why he's using 25,000 as the loan amount...not a lot of people have 20 grand to shell out for down payment

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Spool

^^^Kinda harsh but yeah, and i don't know why he's using 25,000 as the loan amount...not a lot of people have 20 grand to shell out for down payment

I edited it to tone it down. Its been a long day and reading rubbish like what he wrote made me angry.

[Bimmer335i]

Originally Posted by Spool

?

+1

[Blue Streak]

Dude, you're a fiscal guru for sure. You're right, I had much more buying power in 2007 than I do in 2008/09. My income has increased, but the cost of living (CPI) has increased more which has made a marked impact on my buying power. I've had to adjust things in my budget.

[Christos]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Do me a favor John. Go attend a college finance class then come talk to us.

First off car prices increase every year. Every single manufacturer does this. FYI, the Accord went from $30,260 for the EX-L V6 w/ Navi to $30,755. The base Camry went from $18,570 to $19,145. Seems to me like Toyota and Honda get away with it as well. Lets not forget that the E90 has had a significant facelift, that costs money.

As far as comparing financing rates as a way of hiding the increase in cost... HA! Any finance major would laugh in your face. All a finance rate is, is the rate at which you can borrow the money.

The cost of building cars has gone up tremendously. All the commodities (steel, rubber, etc.) have gone up anywhere from 50%-200% for certain things. Transportation costs have gone through the roof with the increase in gas. Lets not forget how much the Dollar fell in the last few years against the Euro either. Every USD BMW got was worth less and less as time went on.

If anything we are paying LESS today for the car. Lets consider how much the buying power of the USD has dropped over those three years. True, it may look like more money, but in reality your money decreased in value a lot less than the price increased.

God you're reasoning dumb.

I remember looking at the 3 series back in the mid-90's, dreaming of owning one, and loaded they were in the $40k's.

[dth656]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

The OP is pointing out to us (after some obvious hard work on his part) that the cost of new products seems to rise over time. I find this concept incredible!! Do I smell a Nobel prize here?

too late, krugman snatched it..

i have a question, however. given the prevailing economic conditions, wouldn't you use that to your advantage to get at LEAST 5k knocked off the price before even thinking about financing? i.e. walk in to the dealer, negotiate the price of the car down, then avail yourself of the .9% financing??

[ede92]

If you didn't put as much down you would have saved more. Why did you do that?

It is all about timing. I saved $6K off of the Jan 08 MSRP when I placed my ED order for August. That is about an 11% discount. Then the price went up in June $775 but I already had a production number. So now my discount off of June MSRP is 12.5%!

Well it doesn't end there. 0.9 financing came out in July. I was able to secure this rate since I was a previous BMW owner.

So instead of putting down $20K like I originally planned - I put down $5K. I saved about $4,500 of interest on the loan itself.

I know there was some shit luck in here but I am not complaining.

Did I mention that the 09 pricing for the exact same car -iDrive 4.0 was almost $2,200 more. So you add all these savings up and it is greater than $13K.