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      11-27-2021, 01:44 AM   #1
wakeupearly95
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Can I use pure Ethanol/Methanol ?

Hello,

I have 335i E90 {N55 PWG}. A car is on stock Turbo/HPFP/LPFP.

So, I have several questions:

1) Can I use E30/E85 on stock Turbo/HPFP/LPFP ?

In my country E30/E85 fuel not available. So, in this case I must mix ethanol and gas myself in E30/E85 case, right ?

2) Can I use pure ethanol ? Just go to chemical shop and buy pure ethanol ?

There are other option to use Meth kit right ? 49% methanol and 51% water, right ?

3) Can I fill Meth kit tank with pure methanol ? (I read about `Snow Performance Boost Juice`, and I think pure methanol was not recommended).

P.S I want to run E30/E85 or Meth injection on Stock Turbo/HPFP/LPFP.

Thanks !
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      11-27-2021, 06:34 AM   #2
whyzee125
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You cannot run full e85 on a stock HPFP and LPFP. Most cars can run up to about an e30 mix on stock everything and up to e50 or e60 on a stage 3 LPFP.

To run full e85, you will likely need port injection unless you had a tune made for stock power levels and just wanted the cooling benefits. Beyond e60 or so you donít make additional power but not having to mix at the pump is nice. Definitely get them Bluetooth ethanol sensor so you can monitor what mixture youíre running.

You will need to tune for different fueling so factor that into the cost.

As far as I know you canít just buy straight ethanol and that would require even more fueling mods.

You can run 51/49 water/meth or full methanol. Thereís tons of options for what you spray if you go the methanol route. Water meth mixed at 51/49 is not flammable so thatís why itís commonly mixed that way. You get additional octane and good cooling but I think you get a bit more octane going straight methanol
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      11-27-2021, 02:07 PM   #3
wakeupearly95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyzee125 View Post
You cannot run full e85 on a stock HPFP and LPFP. Most cars can run up to about an e30 mix on stock everything and up to e50 or e60 on a stage 3 LPFP.

To run full e85, you will likely need port injection unless you had a tune made for stock power levels and just wanted the cooling benefits. Beyond e60 or so you don’t make additional power but not having to mix at the pump is nice. Definitely get them Bluetooth ethanol sensor so you can monitor what mixture you’re running.

You will need to tune for different fueling so factor that into the cost.

As far as I know you can’t just buy straight ethanol and that would require even more fueling mods.

You can run 51/49 water/meth or full methanol. There’s tons of options for what you spray if you go the methanol route. Water meth mixed at 51/49 is not flammable so that’s why it’s commonly mixed that way. You get additional octane and good cooling but I think you get a bit more octane going straight methanol
Thanks for your time !

So, I can run E30 on stock Turbo/HPFP/LPFP. If I can not use pure ethanol (E30) will be a big problem for me. This case I must order "special" kinda ethanol from USA and this is big headache.

My car has already had Downpipe (catless). I do not know, exact firm of downpipe, but anyway.

I am almost ordered everything I need (I am going to stay on stock Turbo/HPFP for now).

1) Intercooler
2) Radiator
3) Spark plugs (2 step colder)
4) Chargepipe
5) Induction pipe
6) Boost pipe
7) Blow-off valve
8) Air intake

All of them, I am going to buy high quality products. I really want to try E30 as well and use pure ethanol.

In case of excellent tuning, what must be my expectations (I mean with E30 and without E30) ? I am going to buy Meth kit in future, but now I prefer use E30.

How many HP/Torque (On the wheel) can I hit ? If someone has a similar setup ?

And, I am interested in what is average time of acceleration 100-200 ?

Thanks !
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      11-28-2021, 12:26 PM   #4
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BTW, what year is your N55? If you have the 'later' / redesigned HPFP (car build date after ~mid 2012 / model year 2013) then your rail pressure will crash if you try to ramp the boost too quickly because the newer HPFPs don't have the same capacity as the earlier ones. See blog here. BTW here's one of my early log on the stock turbo & HPFP.. note how the rail pressure crashes and the car goes in to limp mode due to misfires.

Bottom line is if you have a later pump then it needs to be upgraded to a Dorch or XDI before attempting to make big boost / horsepower, even on the stock turbo.

Last edited by jlegelis; 11-28-2021 at 12:45 PM..
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      11-28-2021, 12:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlegelis View Post
BTW, what year is your N55? If you have the 'later' / redesigned HPFP (car build date after ~mid 2012 / model year 2013) then your rail pressure will crash if you try to ramp the boost too quickly because the newer HPFPs don't have the same capacity as the earlier ones. See blog here. BTW here's one of my early log on the stock turbo & HPFP.. note how the rail pressure crashes and the car goes in to limp mode due to misfires.

Bottom line is if you have a later pump then it needs to be upgraded to a Dorch or XDI before attempting to make big horsepower, even on the stock turbo.
I will read it.

I have a 2011 years car (I think, this is first generation N55). HPFP is updated, i have HPFP from 535i F10.

Honestly, i wanted to update HPFP/Turbo at the same time, but if it will damage my car ? Maybe, it is bad idea to use E30 for now with mods provided above ?

Thanks !
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      11-29-2021, 12:09 AM   #6
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You CAN run full E85 on the stock fuel pumps and turbo. You just have to dial back the boost and adjust the tune accordingly. If you want the power benefit from E85 then yes, you need to upgrade the pumps.
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      11-29-2021, 12:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
You CAN run full E85 on the stock fuel pumps and turbo. You just have to dial back the boost and adjust the tune accordingly. If you want the power benefit from E85 then yes, you need to upgrade the pumps.
Thanks !

Can i buy pure ethanol at chemical shop ?
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      11-29-2021, 08:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
You can't unless you pay alcohol tax.
That's why they mix gasoline to make E85 so people can't drink it.
Closest you can get is denatured alcohol that contains additives to prevent people from drinking it.
Usually it contains methanol in most places and it's expensive to use as fuel so I'd say don't bother.
You can either run E85 (or mix) through the fuel system or spray methanol, ethanol, water (whatever % you want) through a separate fueling system (nozzles, solenoids, hoses, pump, tank, etc).
Never put methanol or water in the fuel system.
70 % fuel and 30 % pure ethanol is normal, right ? This is what people calls, E30 ?

Thanks !
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      11-29-2021, 03:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeupearly95 View Post
70 % fuel and 30 % pure ethanol is normal, right ? This is what people calls, E30 ?

No. To make E30 or any other EXX blend, you mix E85 with pump gas (e.g. 91 octane premium).

E85 is typically 70-85% ethanol while premium is usually 10%. You have to measure what you get from your local pump in order to blend it accurately. And what your local pump has is dependent on brand, location, and time of year.

For example, to make E30 I blend 5 gallons of E85 with 9 gallons of 91.
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      11-29-2021, 11:02 PM   #10
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wakeupearly95 you're really scaring me. I strongly suggest you hit 'pause' on the entire project until you understand the basic physics of what you are trying to do. I love the enthusiasm (we've all been there) but you can't just turn up the volume to '11' and expect to make a reliable 600hp out of the gate. Best of luck, but 'go slow to go fast'.
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      11-29-2021, 11:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlegelis View Post
wakeupearly95 you're really scaring me. I strongly suggest you hit 'pause' on the entire project until you understand the basic physics of what you are trying to do. I love the enthusiasm (we've all been there) but you can't just turn up the volume to '11' and expect to make a reliable 600hp out of the gate. Best of luck, but 'go slow to go fast'.
I understand yours, and thanks for recommendations.

My car has a lot of problems after i bought it and I am in fixing process. I can not hit 600 hp now (no time as well), going to hit 360-380 hp and research more.

Thanks !
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      11-30-2021, 01:32 AM   #12
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380hp is achievable on the stock pumps, pump gas (premium), stock tuebo, and an OTS MHD tune. Throw a few bolts on at it and you'll be over 400.
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      11-30-2021, 01:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
380hp is achievable on the stock pumps, pump gas (premium), stock tuebo, and an OTS MHD tune. Throw a few bolts on at it and you'll be over 400.
1) Intercooler
2) Radiator
3) Ignition coils
4) Spark plugs (2 step colder)
5) Chargepipe
6) Induction pipe
7) Boost pipe
8) Blow-off valve
9) Cold air intake
10) Downpipe (catless)

What else, I need to hit ~400whp ? Is something missing ? What you think ?

Thanks !
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      11-30-2021, 07:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
380hp is achievable on the stock pumps, pump gas (premium), stock tuebo, and an OTS MHD tune. Throw a few bolts on at it and you'll be over 400.
380 on MHD OTS tune with stock pumps for n55 pneumatic wastegate? Are you taking crank or wheel hp? Do you have any dyno graphs or logs to share?

I'm not too familiar with their e30 and e50 OTS tunes- I thought the e30 tune may be near 380 crank hp, but depending on condition of hpfp, it's right on the edge of capability, no? I'd assume more power on e50 tune, but I suspect you'd need upgraded hpfp for that tune. Please correct me if i'm mistsaken.
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      11-30-2021, 09:00 PM   #15
ferocity02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheela View Post
380 on MHD OTS tune with stock pumps for n55 pneumatic wastegate? Are you taking crank or wheel hp? Do you have any dyno graphs or logs to share?

I'm not too familiar with their e30 and e50 OTS tunes- I thought the e30 tune may be near 380 crank hp, but depending on condition of hpfp, it's right on the edge of capability, no? I'd assume more power on e50 tune, but I suspect you'd need upgraded hpfp for that tune. Please correct me if i'm mistsaken.
I was referring to MHD's quotes on power. Looks like their stage 2 gets you 390hp but you need DP or intercooler. I figure this is rwhp.
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      11-30-2021, 11:00 PM   #16
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Okay, I think the numbers MHD quotes are crank. The n55's are 306hp crank stock, but I think they typically dyno in the 270's at the wheel due to drive train losses. I'm on stage 2+, with an intercooler and DP, I think that should be an additional 50-60 hp, so it's guess I'm around 330 at the wheels? Not sure, i've never dynoed it. I'd love to hear some people chime in who have dynod the mhd ots tunes for reference. But even the dyno numbers are hard to judge, as they will all read slightly differently. Plus the same car on the same day & same dyno will make different numbers on different pulls.

I know the MHD OTS tunes get more power on the n54, as their stock twins can flow more air that our single turbo.
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      12-01-2021, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheela View Post
Okay, I think the numbers MHD quotes are crank. The n55's are 306hp crank stock, but I think they typically dyno in the 270's at the wheel due to drive train losses. I'm on stage 2+, with an intercooler and DP, I think that should be an additional 50-60 hp, so it's guess I'm around 330 at the wheels? Not sure, i've never dynoed it. I'd love to hear some people chime in who have dynod the mhd ots tunes for reference. But even the dyno numbers are hard to judge, as they will all read slightly differently. Plus the same car on the same day & same dyno will make different numbers on different pulls.

I know the MHD OTS tunes get more power on the n54, as their stock twins can flow more air that our single turbo.
I am honestly willing to bet that MHD Stage 2+ is more along the lines of 300-310 whp on an xdrive. Maybe a tad higher on rwd. When I was stage 2+ I was still slower than my friends 2013 Audi Allroad that dynoed at 300 awhp and~400 awtq. He did have an upgraded turbo but I was still expecting to beat him. Wasn't the case.
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      12-01-2021, 02:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRigs View Post
I am honestly willing to bet that MHD Stage 2+ is more along the lines of 300-310 whp on an xdrive. Maybe a tad higher on rwd. When I was stage 2+ I was still slower than my friends 2013 Audi Allroad that dynoed at 300 awhp and~400 awtq. He did have an upgraded turbo but I was still expecting to beat him. Wasn't the case.
Sadly, I tend to agree with you. I've been underwhelmed with the added power on the OTS tunes, but was starting to think that maybe I just didn't have a good expectation of what an extra 50 hp on top of 300 should feel like. But my 0-60 times haven't improved drastically with MHD. My car should do 0-60 in 5.3 seconds stock. With MHD OTS tunes, downpipe, and intercooler, the best i've been able to muster is 4.84 seconds via dragy. And that was actually on stage 1+, I haven't been able to match that yet on stage 2+. Granted, I don't like brake-boosting my car, so i've only tried a handful of times...
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      12-02-2021, 09:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheela View Post
Sadly, I tend to agree with you. I've been underwhelmed with the added power on the OTS tunes, but was starting to think that maybe I just didn't have a good expectation of what an extra 50 hp on top of 300 should feel like. But my 0-60 times haven't improved drastically with MHD. My car should do 0-60 in 5.3 seconds stock. With MHD OTS tunes, downpipe, and intercooler, the best i've been able to muster is 4.84 seconds via dragy. And that was actually on stage 1+, I haven't been able to match that yet on stage 2+. Granted, I don't like brake-boosting my car, so i've only tried a handful of times...
Need a custom tune with some meth or E85 to really push the stock turbo. My virtual dyno has me at 364/482. Custom tune with meth. Never put it on a real dyno to see how close the actual number are.
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