[Mike.]

so..?

[Oo=[][]=oO]

I've just flown home from business in NYC and didn't have time to reply. So here goes:

-The $USD price is for 2 headers, as they are packed two in a box. (Must order multiples of 2)
-I'm in the industry and the customs paper says Test Sample Exhaust.
-I can't comment on your 20 piece minimum, as I don't know or care about that.
-Stig, I've looked at the photos after posting and they didn't seem out of focus or blurry. Did anyone else find that? I used my I-phone for most of them, and have viewed them on my I-pad, as well as PC. Any suggestions will be helpful. P.S. when I try to upload any more than 1 at a time it exceeds the size.
-The anterior and posterior collectors are the same size and look to be processed the same way. I will try to get pictures of the collectors as asked, please tell me what exactly you are looking for.
-The question or suggestion of being a ploy by the company is purely laughable, I don't know how you respond to such crazy stuff online. As I previously posted, this is a microscopic product in a microscopic industry. If someone was looking to boost sales they would make SS plumbing pipes not BMW headers.

While I was away last week the shop did install one set of tubes and they had a nightmare. After removing what seemed to be half the engine components to access the factory manifolds, they were removed. The posterior or rear header section took some fiddling to get into place, but the bolt hole locations were all bang on.

They couldn't get the front header section to line up at all because it interfered with the other tubes as well as heatshield and other components so it could not be located properly. It was determined that the rear section would need to be removed.

After a long time, they used four really long headless studs that were pushed through the flange holes and barely threaded into the head. This allowed the two sets of tubes to float somewhat until they could be jiggled into place. Then the real problem arose as they tried to insert the cap screws and torque down the flanges to the head. No matter which set they torqued up first, the second set would not properly seat. There was tube to tube interference.

To solve this a small amount of heat was applied to the tubes only from above, while a second mechanic used a section of hockey stick and a box end wrench to pry the header in the needed direction to allow the front header to be installed. I haven't seen it for myself yet but I'm heading over there tonight. The flanges wont bolt up to the rest of the BMW PE, so they only cranked it over and said it sounded "wicked", no shit, open headers inside a shop.....proves nothing.

The mechanic said they looked on the internet and spoke to other BMW shops and found out loosening the motor and tranny mounts give extra wiggle room. I'm posting that tidbit for anybody who runs into these same issues.

At the moment I'm not as happy as I once was. If these things cant bolt up to stock or performance BMW exhaust, they will be useless for you guys on the street. But with no cats I don't know how you plan to pass emissions anyway, and its not a quick bolt on and off when you need to renew your plates!

Thx TomB

[Mavus]

Tanks for the update. Please stop torturing that poor car.

What would be an interesting thing to do is to get a set of Supersprint headers to compare design, build quality and fitment. I can tell you they fit like fine Italian shoes.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan

You really have it out for CPI headers huh?

They make a pretty clear example of a terrible product that from the outside has the right "look".

Originally Posted by Oo=[][]=oO

-Stig, I've looked at the photos after posting and they didn't seem out of focus or blurry. Did anyone else find that? I used my I-phone for most of them, and have viewed them on my I-pad, as well as PC. Any suggestions will be helpful. P.S. when I try to upload any more than 1 at a time it exceeds the size.
-The anterior and posterior collectors are the same size and look to be processed the same way. I will try to get pictures of the collectors as asked, please tell me what exactly you are looking for.

I'm just looking to see the quality of the welds and the design of the collector.

And your honest feedback on the fitment issues is highly appreciated!

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Tanks for the update. Please stop torturing that poor car.

What would be an interesting thing to do is to get a set of Supersprint headers to compare design, build quality and fitment. I can tell you they fit like fine Italian shoes.

Yup. My install process consisted of:

1. Remove stock
2. Install Supersprint
3. Re-bolt things

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=13506265

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by Oo=[][]=oO

I've just flown home from business in NYC and didn't have time to reply. So here goes:


-The question or suggestion of being a ploy by the company is purely laughable, I don't know how you respond to such crazy stuff online. As I previously posted, this is a microscopic product in a microscopic industry. If someone was looking to boost sales they would make SS plumbing pipes not BMW headers.

Thx TomB

that was the point, for it to be purely laughable...it was a joke!

[PORTMOODY]

Tom, your headers look a lot like the ones I had purchased, but they may be different. I noticed a flat gasket in your initial pic. Did they include that with your headers?

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Oo=[][]=oO

I've just flown home from business in NYC and didn't have time to reply. So here goes:

-The $USD price is for 2 headers, as they are packed two in a box. (Must order multiples of 2)
-I'm in the industry and the customs paper says Test Sample Exhaust.
-I can't comment on your 20 piece minimum, as I don't know or care about that.
-Stig, I've looked at the photos after posting and they didn't seem out of focus or blurry. Did anyone else find that? I used my I-phone for most of them, and have viewed them on my I-pad, as well as PC. Any suggestions will be helpful. P.S. when I try to upload any more than 1 at a time it exceeds the size.
-The anterior and posterior collectors are the same size and look to be processed the same way. I will try to get pictures of the collectors as asked, please tell me what exactly you are looking for.
-The question or suggestion of being a ploy by the company is purely laughable, I don't know how you respond to such crazy stuff online. As I previously posted, this is a microscopic product in a microscopic industry. If someone was looking to boost sales they would make SS plumbing pipes not BMW headers.

While I was away last week the shop did install one set of tubes and they had a nightmare. After removing what seemed to be half the engine components to access the factory manifolds, they were removed. The posterior or rear header section took some fiddling to get into place, but the bolt hole locations were all bang on.

They couldn't get the front header section to line up at all because it interfered with the other tubes as well as heatshield and other components so it could not be located properly. It was determined that the rear section would need to be removed.

After a long time, they used four really long headless studs that were pushed through the flange holes and barely threaded into the head. This allowed the two sets of tubes to float somewhat until they could be jiggled into place. Then the real problem arose as they tried to insert the cap screws and torque down the flanges to the head. No matter which set they torqued up first, the second set would not properly seat. There was tube to tube interference.

To solve this a small amount of heat was applied to the tubes only from above, while a second mechanic used a section of hockey stick and a box end wrench to pry the header in the needed direction to allow the front header to be installed. I haven't seen it for myself yet but I'm heading over there tonight. The flanges wont bolt up to the rest of the BMW PE, so they only cranked it over and said it sounded "wicked", no shit, open headers inside a shop.....proves nothing.

The mechanic said they looked on the internet and spoke to other BMW shops and found out loosening the motor and tranny mounts give extra wiggle room. I'm posting that tidbit for anybody who runs into these same issues.

At the moment I'm not as happy as I once was. If these things cant bolt up to stock or performance BMW exhaust, they will be useless for you guys on the street. But with no cats I don't know how you plan to pass emissions anyway, and its not a quick bolt on and off when you need to renew your plates!

Thx TomB

For this testing to be truly interesting, really needs to include SS... and dynos of each. That would be spectacular!

But, yeah, sounds like you're having the eBay header experience. I had them on my car briefly. Now SS

[andrey_gta]

This thread & Tom's effort whas so far proven that for a Daily driver - SS Fitment R&D is worth the extra cost - imagine your shop forcing a header instillation at $100+ per hour. Pretty soon this will be the cost of SupeSprint

Overall I do hope Tom resolves the issues because the risk he took needs a reward. Plus he is somewhat local to me and I do want to see the result

[Oo=[][]=oO]

Hey Andrey,
I've had a few GTA guys asking to buy a set of headers from me, but I'm not in the "selling business", I'm into the R&D, testing and verification.

Professor "Jim" is away in Vancouver this week at some welding technology function, so I won't have a final report on the materials and construction until next week. They used this as a project for third year engineering students using all the best technology available to them, with Jim and another Prof overseeing it. I will actually have some pics of the testing including ex rays and try to upload them onto this site if the formatting is compatible.

One further observation that I found very puzzling from Jim was after the visual on the fillet welds; ".....we did an MPI and found slight sub-surface discontinuities in the test parts......." In layman's terms, the Magnetic Particle Inspection revealed many sub surface cracks, so they were going to use a liquid dye penetrant to reveal the flaws under special light frequency, as well as x ray.

Maybe "Stig" knows if this occurs with Supersprint?

The professor says it's not uncommon when welding alloys of varying thicknesses. More to come shortly. TomB

[kobeballer96]

Update on fitment? Did it end up working?

[DUI Elite]

Tom, you are the hero for N52 guys everywhere. lol

Thank you for all your time and research into this. Glad you're being so objective about it. A lot of guys wouldn't mention fitment issues because of having a bias develop after investing so much time / money into the project.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Oo=[

[]=oO]Hey Andrey,
I've had a few GTA guys asking to buy a set of headers from me, but I'm not in the "selling business", I'm into the R&D, testing and verification.

Professor "Jim" is away in Vancouver this week at some welding technology function, so I won't have a final report on the materials and construction until next week. They used this as a project for third year engineering students using all the best technology available to them, with Jim and another Prof overseeing it. I will actually have some pics of the testing including ex rays and try to upload them onto this site if the formatting is compatible.

One further observation that I found very puzzling from Jim was after the visual on the fillet welds; ".....we did an MPI and found slight sub-surface discontinuities in the test parts......." In layman's terms, the Magnetic Particle Inspection revealed many sub surface cracks, so they were going to use a liquid dye penetrant to reveal the flaws under special light frequency, as well as x ray.

Maybe "Stig" knows if this occurs with Supersprint?

The professor says it's not uncommon when welding alloys of varying thicknesses. More to come shortly. TomB

Any updates?

[SCMalum]

I know from chatting with Oo=[][]=oO that he is traveling currently - but still testing! He will get back to us shortly.

[Oo=[][]=oO]

Sorry for the long interlude guys. I got home from Africa over a month ago, and after taking it easy for a few days I was back at it. Somehow I managed to detach my retina! Great work by the guys in London at the Ivey Eye Institute, and although not back to normal, I am seeing a lot better.

As you can imagine I've had a few projects slip because of this, I will report back soon with the balance of the test findings and pics.

Thx TomB

[David0ff]

WOW!
glad you are ok ... how does... never mind i'm to squeamish

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Oo=[][]=oO

Sorry for the long interlude guys. I got home from Africa over a month ago, and after taking it easy for a few days I was back at it. Somehow I managed to detach my retina! Great work by the guys in London at the Ivey Eye Institute, and although not back to normal, I am seeing a lot better.

As you can imagine I've had a few projects slip because of this, I will report back soon with the balance of the test findings and pics.

Thx TomB

Hope you're feeling better! Keep us updated!

[bNks334]

Any update on the install?! I am planning on doing headers and a tune this spring and i see no reason to spend 1k on headers when you can get reps for ~200.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by bNks334

Any update on the install?! I am planning on doing headers and a tune this spring and i see no reason to spend 1k on headers when you can get reps for ~200.

Active Autowerke's are cheaper than a 1k and actually have proven gains.

I'd tread lightly on these type of things, but what do I know

[631twentyeighteye]

Originally Posted by bNks334

Any update on the install?! I am planning on doing headers and a tune this spring and i see no reason to spend 1k on headers when you can get reps for ~200.

As other's have said, you'll see the $800 dollar savings dwindle away in hours of work spent at a shop of them heating, banging, bending and twisting the headers to get them to fit.. And it still will probably be unsuccessful. Look into the e46 m3 world and how their knockoff headers fit.

Active's headers are by far the best option for our cars IMHO. I went with Mapleridge because supersprint was the only other option at the time and it was way to expensive. The mapleridge headers fit like factory and gave me good gains so i can't complain.

Not trying to dissuade you from doing headers, since they're an awesome mod. Just trying to save you a headache

[bNks334]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

As other's have said, you'll see the $800 dollar savings dwindle away in hours of work spent at a shop of them heating, banging, bending and twisting the headers to get them to fit.. And it still will probably be unsuccessful. Look into the e46 m3 world and how their knockoff headers fit.

Active's headers are by far the best option for our cars IMHO. I went with Mapleridge because supersprint was the only other option at the time and it was way to expensive. The mapleridge headers fit like factory and gave me good gains so i can't complain.

Not trying to dissuade you from doing headers, since they're an awesome mod. Just trying to save you a headache

Yes, I see where you are coming from. But, most of the issues I see relating to the "kockoffs" were the result of using the cheap gaskets they came with. There are just as many success stories with people who used OEM gaskets during install.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by bNks334

Yes, I see where you are coming from. But, most of the issues I see relating to the "kockoffs" were the result of using the cheap gaskets they came with. There are just as many success stories with people who used OEM gaskets during install.

Go ahead and try it but be prepared to waste money and time, and potentially damage something. The power gain could end up being less than optimal also. There isn't much space in the engine bay to begin with and headers have to be designed very well not to cause fitment and interference issues. This is not a mod to save a few bucks on in my opinion.

[bimmerquick43321]

Some parts you can cheap out if you're smart about it and well a little bit lucky, for example I bought like 20$ HID XENON bulbs, it's been like 6 months, brighter than OEM and no issues, quality of product (metal, connector, etc...) is quite impressive.

HOWEVER, some parts are harder to find for cheap without impacting the end result pretty badly... Headers is one of them....I speak from experience, I once just wanted to replace the "downpipe" non turbo car, so the pipe from headers to the rest of the exhaust that had the O2 connector, I bought a cheap one, OMG... lol don't know where to start, as mentioned it ended up costing more time to make it fit and re weld everything lol, I can only imagine the headache of fitting headers that are not a good fit to start with....

On this one I'm with the rest do it right or don't do it...